Badge of Dishonour

Which is the best football code? Here you can have it out with other football fans.
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Badge of Dishonour

Post by Beaussie »

Had an interesting history lesson today. Was wondering what Vichyball was after seeing it posted here a few times by RL supporters.

Seems RL and AR have had similar histories when it came to establishing each code (RL in France and AR in NSW). I'm interested to know, who denied the NSWFL access to grounds in Sydney? Rugby League or Rugby Union or both? Anyone know the answer to that? Were the RL administrators as evil as the RU officials they accuse of killing the game of RL in France?
From its beginning, French rugby has been known for a strange blend of exquisite skill and occasional thuggery. In the 1930s, the France national team was kicked out of the (then amateur) Five Nations competition for violent play and for allegedly making secret payments to players.

As that decade came to an end, le rugby union, or le rugby à quinze, sank further into dire straits thanks to the emergence of a more exciting, semi-professional form of the game. Rugby league or rugby à treize (13-a-side rugby), a sport born in industrial Lancashire and Yorkshire, was sweeping through the game's heartland in the rural South-west.

French rugby union was only saved by the German army's invasion of France in May 1940. Some of the sport's senior administrators took advantage of their close relationship with the pro-Nazi, collaborationist Vichy regime headed by Marshal Pétain to have the rival code outlawed as a "corrupter" of French youth.

Rugby league's funds, players, stadiums and even kit were handed over to rugby union. Rugby-a-treize never fully recovered. Compensation was never paid. It took until 2002 for the French government to recognise officially that league had been the victim, not so much of a loathsome political ideology, as of jealousy and prejudice and a massive dirty trick.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb ... 01557.html
The first recorded game of Australian rules football in Sydney was between the Waratah rugby club and the Carlton Football Club in 1877, two days after a rugby game between the two clubs and 14 years after rugby was first played in the state.

Waratah and some others claimed that the Australian rules resulted in a more exciting game, but the rugby authorities repeatedly rejected suggestions to switch codes or even play intercolonial matches under alternating rules against Victoria. In response, the proponents of the Australian game formed the NSW Football Association in 1880 and in 1881 the first Australian rules game between NSW and Victoria was played in Sydney. The NSWFA was small, with only a few clubs, including Waratah who switched code in 1882, and competition did not begin in earnest until 1889, when clubs competed for the Flanagan Cup. Having trouble gaining access to enclosed grounds, and therefore gate receipts, the association also had trouble with antagonism between its clubs, and it collapsed in 1893.

The NSW Football League was born on 12 February 1903 at a meeting held in the YMCA Hall in George St. The NSWFL promoted the game in schools and the Victorian Football League (VFL) held premiership matches in Sydney in an effort to establish the code. In 1908, largely through the switch of codes by the talented Dally Messenger, rugby league established itself into the culture of Sydney, and although Australian football remained popular, the NSWFL was again denied access to enclosed grounds and the new professional code further drew players from the NSWFL. By 1911, Australian rules had achieved more support than rugby union, according to The Referee, but only because the main rival was now rugby league.

The Australian National Football carnival of 1933 was held at the Sydney Cricket Ground. Several matches drew large crowds, particularly those involving New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, South Australia and West Australia.

Following the successful interstate football carnival, in 1933 a proposal by the New South Wales Rugby League to amalgamate Australian football and rugby league was investigated and a report, with a set of proposed rules, known as Universal football, was prepared by the secretary of the NSWRL, Harold R. Miller and sent to the Australian National Football Council. A trial game was held in secret, but the plans were never instituted.

Three of the original NSWFL clubs are still in existence and currently play in the Sydney AFL — North Shore, East Sydney (now UNSW-ES) and Balmain, but the league never grew to a substantial size or obtained significant support.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian ... outh_Wales
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

Post by ParraEelsNRL »

Union had all the power in NSW and RL had to fight tooth and nail to get grounds to play on.

To this day, RL is still not allowed to be played in most private schools in NSW and QLD even though it's the biggest sport in these states.

Union people are the worst you could ever come across even going to the point of jumping into bed with the Nazi vichy regime to suppress and kill off RL in France.
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

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I can tell you as an employee of AFL Sydney and with friends in AFL NSW/ACT that councils don't like us even today. I've lost count of the number of times precious councils have closed AFL grounds on a whim forcing us to abandon rounds of football after a few days of rain. And yet I've heard that on those same days local rugby league (including juniors) still goes ahead.

But the opposition is fading. The Giants are helping I think and some councils are starting to realise the growing support for AFL thanks to growing junior numbers as that Sports Commission study that we've already discussed here shows.
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

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Beaussie wrote:
Had an interesting history lesson today. Was wondering what Vinchyball was after seeing it posted here a few times by RL supporters.

Seems RL and AR have had similar histories when it came to establishing each code (RL in France and AR in NSW). I'm interested to know, who denied the NSWFL access to grounds in Sydney? Rugby League or Rugby Union or both? Anyone know the answer to that? Were the RL administrators as evil as the RU officials they accuse of killing the game of RL in France?
From its beginning, French rugby has been known for a strange blend of exquisite skill and occasional thuggery. In the 1930s, the France national team was kicked out of the (then amateur) Five Nations competition for violent play and for allegedly making secret payments to players.

As that decade came to an end, le rugby union, or le rugby à quinze, sank further into dire straits thanks to the emergence of a more exciting, semi-professional form of the game. Rugby league or rugby à treize (13-a-side rugby), a sport born in industrial Lancashire and Yorkshire, was sweeping through the game's heartland in the rural South-west.

French rugby union was only saved by the German army's invasion of France in May 1940. Some of the sport's senior administrators took advantage of their close relationship with the pro-Nazi, collaborationist Vichy regime headed by Marshal Pétain to have the rival code outlawed as a "corrupter" of French youth.

Rugby league's funds, players, stadiums and even kit were handed over to rugby union. Rugby-a-treize never fully recovered. Compensation was never paid. It took until 2002 for the French government to recognise officially that league had been the victim, not so much of a loathsome political ideology, as of jealousy and prejudice and a massive dirty trick.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb ... 01557.html
The first recorded game of Australian rules football in Sydney was between the Waratah rugby club and the Carlton Football Club in 1877, two days after a rugby game between the two clubs and 14 years after rugby was first played in the state.

Waratah and some others claimed that the Australian rules resulted in a more exciting game, but the rugby authorities repeatedly rejected suggestions to switch codes or even play intercolonial matches under alternating rules against Victoria. In response, the proponents of the Australian game formed the NSW Football Association in 1880 and in 1881 the first Australian rules game between NSW and Victoria was played in Sydney. The NSWFA was small, with only a few clubs, including Waratah who switched code in 1882, and competition did not begin in earnest until 1889, when clubs competed for the Flanagan Cup. Having trouble gaining access to enclosed grounds, and therefore gate receipts, the association also had trouble with antagonism between its clubs, and it collapsed in 1893.

The NSW Football League was born on 12 February 1903 at a meeting held in the YMCA Hall in George St. The NSWFL promoted the game in schools and the Victorian Football League (VFL) held premiership matches in Sydney in an effort to establish the code. In 1908, largely through the switch of codes by the talented Dally Messenger, rugby league established itself into the culture of Sydney, and although Australian football remained popular, the NSWFL was again denied access to enclosed grounds and the new professional code further drew players from the NSWFL. By 1911, Australian rules had achieved more support than rugby union, according to The Referee, but only because the main rival was now rugby league.

The Australian National Football carnival of 1933 was held at the Sydney Cricket Ground. Several matches drew large crowds, particularly those involving New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, South Australia and West Australia.

Following the successful interstate football carnival, in 1933 a proposal by the New South Wales Rugby League to amalgamate Australian football and rugby league was investigated and a report, with a set of proposed rules, known as Universal football, was prepared by the secretary of the NSWRL, Harold R. Miller and sent to the Australian National Football Council. A trial game was held in secret, but the plans were never instituted.

Three of the original NSWFL clubs are still in existence and currently play in the Sydney AFL — North Shore, East Sydney (now UNSW-ES) and Balmain, but the league never grew to a substantial size or obtained significant support.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian ... outh_Wales
Vinchyball ?
8-[
never heard of it either
I've heard of Vichyball :-k

& as for the rest of this post.............. it is pure baloney .............complete fanatsy :wink:
Wikipedia
did cuzzy write it himself

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

AR failed in NSW then .. & still is ... because its garbage :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
RL SOO II 4.194 Million veiwers
RL SOO I 4.068 Million
NRL GF 3.968 Million
VFL Grand Final 3.620 Million
SOO III 3.364 Million
NRL Prelim 2.219 Million
Kangaroos V NZ 1.214 Million

Sookerwhos V Japan 238K :lol:
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

Post by NSWAFL »

The league that I work for began in 1903, Dave. Nothing unsuccessful lasts more than 100 years like this league has.
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

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NSWAFL wrote:
I can tell you as an employee of AFL Sydney and with friends in AFL NSW/ACT that councils don't like us even today. I've lost count of the number of times precious councils have closed AFL grounds on a whim forcing us to abandon rounds of football after a few days of rain. And yet I've heard that on those same days local rugby league (including juniors) still goes ahead.But the opposition is fading. The Giants are helping I think and some councils are starting to realise the growing support for AFL thanks to growing junior numbers as that Sports Commission study that we've already discussed here shows.

again

utter snot & lies
if grounds are closed .. they're closed .. to everyone

the only sport I know of that kicks off other sports off public fields .. is AR ... by bribing public officals
corrupt scum.. AR is full of them. [-X [-X [-X [-X
RL SOO II 4.194 Million veiwers
RL SOO I 4.068 Million
NRL GF 3.968 Million
VFL Grand Final 3.620 Million
SOO III 3.364 Million
NRL Prelim 2.219 Million
Kangaroos V NZ 1.214 Million

Sookerwhos V Japan 238K :lol:
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

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NSWAFL wrote:
The league that I work for began in 1903, Dave. Nothing unsuccessful lasts more than 100 years like this league has.

a tiddlywinks league then

a tiddlywinks league still .............. :wink:
RL SOO II 4.194 Million veiwers
RL SOO I 4.068 Million
NRL GF 3.968 Million
VFL Grand Final 3.620 Million
SOO III 3.364 Million
NRL Prelim 2.219 Million
Kangaroos V NZ 1.214 Million

Sookerwhos V Japan 238K :lol:
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

Post by ParraEelsNRL »

Yeah, I hate it, I grew up in country NSW and we would play in Rain, Hail, Snow and Sunshine, these days once it starts sprinkling, all sports are called off.

I used to love playing footy in the mud when I was a kid, these days kids are not allowed to be, well, kids.
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

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Raiderdave wrote:
NSWAFL wrote:
I can tell you as an employee of AFL Sydney and with friends in AFL NSW/ACT that councils don't like us even today. I've lost count of the number of times precious councils have closed AFL grounds on a whim forcing us to abandon rounds of football after a few days of rain. And yet I've heard that on those same days local rugby league (including juniors) still goes ahead.But the opposition is fading. The Giants are helping I think and some councils are starting to realise the growing support for AFL thanks to growing junior numbers as that Sports Commission study that we've already discussed here shows.

again

utter snot & lies
if grounds are closed .. they're closed .. to everyone

the only sport I know of that kicks off other sports off public fields .. is AR ... by bribing public officals
corrupt scum.. AR is full of them. [-X [-X [-X [-X
THAT needs evidence, or I request that this be deleted.

AFL grounds were closed. Rugby grounds were not despite copping just as much rain.
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

Post by NSWAFL »

ParraEelsNRL wrote:
Yeah, I hate it, I grew up in country NSW and we would play in Rain, Hail, Snow and Sunshine, these days once it starts sprinkling, all sports are called off.

I used to love playing footy in the mud when I was a kid, these days kids are not allowed to be, well, kids.
:o :o :o :o :o

Something sensible for Parra!!!! *faints*
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

Post by Beaussie »

Raiderdave wrote:
Beaussie wrote:
Had an interesting history lesson today. Was wondering what Vinchyball was after seeing it posted here a few times by RL supporters.

Seems RL and AR have had similar histories when it came to establishing each code (RL in France and AR in NSW). I'm interested to know, who denied the NSWFL access to grounds in Sydney? Rugby League or Rugby Union or both? Anyone know the answer to that? Were the RL administrators as evil as the RU officials they accuse of killing the game of RL in France?
From its beginning, French rugby has been known for a strange blend of exquisite skill and occasional thuggery. In the 1930s, the France national team was kicked out of the (then amateur) Five Nations competition for violent play and for allegedly making secret payments to players.

As that decade came to an end, le rugby union, or le rugby à quinze, sank further into dire straits thanks to the emergence of a more exciting, semi-professional form of the game. Rugby league or rugby à treize (13-a-side rugby), a sport born in industrial Lancashire and Yorkshire, was sweeping through the game's heartland in the rural South-west.

French rugby union was only saved by the German army's invasion of France in May 1940. Some of the sport's senior administrators took advantage of their close relationship with the pro-Nazi, collaborationist Vichy regime headed by Marshal Pétain to have the rival code outlawed as a "corrupter" of French youth.

Rugby league's funds, players, stadiums and even kit were handed over to rugby union. Rugby-a-treize never fully recovered. Compensation was never paid. It took until 2002 for the French government to recognise officially that league had been the victim, not so much of a loathsome political ideology, as of jealousy and prejudice and a massive dirty trick.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb ... 01557.html
The first recorded game of Australian rules football in Sydney was between the Waratah rugby club and the Carlton Football Club in 1877, two days after a rugby game between the two clubs and 14 years after rugby was first played in the state.

Waratah and some others claimed that the Australian rules resulted in a more exciting game, but the rugby authorities repeatedly rejected suggestions to switch codes or even play intercolonial matches under alternating rules against Victoria. In response, the proponents of the Australian game formed the NSW Football Association in 1880 and in 1881 the first Australian rules game between NSW and Victoria was played in Sydney. The NSWFA was small, with only a few clubs, including Waratah who switched code in 1882, and competition did not begin in earnest until 1889, when clubs competed for the Flanagan Cup. Having trouble gaining access to enclosed grounds, and therefore gate receipts, the association also had trouble with antagonism between its clubs, and it collapsed in 1893.

The NSW Football League was born on 12 February 1903 at a meeting held in the YMCA Hall in George St. The NSWFL promoted the game in schools and the Victorian Football League (VFL) held premiership matches in Sydney in an effort to establish the code. In 1908, largely through the switch of codes by the talented Dally Messenger, rugby league established itself into the culture of Sydney, and although Australian football remained popular, the NSWFL was again denied access to enclosed grounds and the new professional code further drew players from the NSWFL. By 1911, Australian rules had achieved more support than rugby union, according to The Referee, but only because the main rival was now rugby league.

The Australian National Football carnival of 1933 was held at the Sydney Cricket Ground. Several matches drew large crowds, particularly those involving New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, South Australia and West Australia.

Following the successful interstate football carnival, in 1933 a proposal by the New South Wales Rugby League to amalgamate Australian football and rugby league was investigated and a report, with a set of proposed rules, known as Universal football, was prepared by the secretary of the NSWRL, Harold R. Miller and sent to the Australian National Football Council. A trial game was held in secret, but the plans were never instituted.

Three of the original NSWFL clubs are still in existence and currently play in the Sydney AFL — North Shore, East Sydney (now UNSW-ES) and Balmain, but the league never grew to a substantial size or obtained significant support.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian ... outh_Wales
Vinchyball ?
8-[
never heard of it either
I've heard of Vichyball :-k

& as for the rest of this post.............. it is pure baloney .............complete fanatsy :wink:
Wikipedia
did cuzzy write it himself

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

AR failed in NSW then .. & still is ... because its garbage :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Excuse my ignorance re: Vichyball, like I said, was a history lesson for me today.

The following pic from the SCG suggest AR was very popular in NSW. I wouldn't think that is pure baloney or complete fantasy.

Image
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

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NSWAFL wrote:
Raiderdave wrote:
NSWAFL wrote:
I can tell you as an employee of AFL Sydney and with friends in AFL NSW/ACT that councils don't like us even today. I've lost count of the number of times precious councils have closed AFL grounds on a whim forcing us to abandon rounds of football after a few days of rain. And yet I've heard that on those same days local rugby league (including juniors) still goes ahead.But the opposition is fading. The Giants are helping I think and some councils are starting to realise the growing support for AFL thanks to growing junior numbers as that Sports Commission study that we've already discussed here shows.

again

utter snot & lies
if grounds are closed .. they're closed .. to everyone

the only sport I know of that kicks off other sports off public fields .. is AR ... by bribing public officals
corrupt scum.. AR is full of them. [-X [-X [-X [-X
THAT needs evidence, or I request that this be deleted.

AFL grounds were closed. Rugby grounds were not despite copping just as much rain.
you'd better prove your claim too
or its gone aswell ..............

now !!
RL SOO II 4.194 Million veiwers
RL SOO I 4.068 Million
NRL GF 3.968 Million
VFL Grand Final 3.620 Million
SOO III 3.364 Million
NRL Prelim 2.219 Million
Kangaroos V NZ 1.214 Million

Sookerwhos V Japan 238K :lol:
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

Post by Beaussie »

NSWAFL wrote:
I can tell you as an employee of AFL Sydney and with friends in AFL NSW/ACT that councils don't like us even today. I've lost count of the number of times precious councils have closed AFL grounds on a whim forcing us to abandon rounds of football after a few days of rain. And yet I've heard that on those same days local rugby league (including juniors) still goes ahead.

But the opposition is fading. The Giants are helping I think and some councils are starting to realise the growing support for AFL thanks to growing junior numbers as that Sports Commission study that we've already discussed here shows.
Wow, didn't realise that was the case with local councils. I wonder if it is pressure from RL and RU clubs/officials? Good to hear they are slowly starting to realise the growing support for the AFL.
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

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Beaussie wrote:
Raiderdave wrote:
Beaussie wrote:
Had an interesting history lesson today. Was wondering what Vinchyball was after seeing it posted here a few times by RL supporters.

Seems RL and AR have had similar histories when it came to establishing each code (RL in France and AR in NSW). I'm interested to know, who denied the NSWFL access to grounds in Sydney? Rugby League or Rugby Union or both? Anyone know the answer to that? Were the RL administrators as evil as the RU officials they accuse of killing the game of RL in France?
Vinchyball ?
8-[
never heard of it either
I've heard of Vichyball :-k

& as for the rest of this post.............. it is pure baloney .............complete fanatsy :wink:
Wikipedia
did cuzzy write it himself

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

AR failed in NSW then .. & still is ... because its garbage :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Excuse my ignorance re: Vichyball, like I said, was a history lesson for me today.

The following pic from the SCG suggest AR was very popular in NSW. I wouldn't think that is pure baloney or complete fantasy.

Image

:lol: :lol: :lol:

what .. is here a couple of hundred people there ? ............ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
RL SOO II 4.194 Million veiwers
RL SOO I 4.068 Million
NRL GF 3.968 Million
VFL Grand Final 3.620 Million
SOO III 3.364 Million
NRL Prelim 2.219 Million
Kangaroos V NZ 1.214 Million

Sookerwhos V Japan 238K :lol:
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Re: Badge of Dishonour

Post by ParraEelsNRL »

And AFL supporters think RL and AFL have a rivalry, no way, RL and RU despise each other all over the world and have done since 1895.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/s ... ioncode=26
It is a fair bet that the man who will present the trophy on October 20, French President Nicolas Sarkozy, is unconcerned. It is not as if he could do anything about the International Rugby Board's choice of name for its trophy. He does, though, have power over another rugby memory lapse - this time, more a suppressed than an invented memory.

Among the official documents inherited by his Government was a report commissioned by Marie-George Buffet - who ran against Sarkozy as a Communist presidential hopeful this year - in her former role as Minister of Sport and Youth. This looked back at sport, in particular rugby league, under the collaborationist wartime Vichy regime.

Rugby league was suppressed by a decree of December 19, 1941 prepared by Jean Borotra, a former tennis champion who was then Sports Minister, and signed by Marshal Pétain, the Vichy head of state. Borotra had the upper-class elitist's abomination of all professional sports, but rugby league was singled out for special treatment. It had grown rapidly from its arrival in France in 1934, and by the outbreak of war it rivalled rugby union in the number of affiliated clubs and the size of crowds.

Suppression was based on a report by rugby union journalist Paul Voivenel, who argued that rugby league counted as un métier (a job) rather than un jeu (a game), even if players were not being paid! This was in keeping with the attitude union had taken to the rival code since the schism of 1895, treating it as a seceding province rather than a separate game and thereby denying its legitimacy. That French rugby union's own take on the game's amateur ideology was so idiosyncratic that it had been suspended from international competition after 1931 was not seen as relevant.

The decree was enforced vigorously by Borotra's deputy and eventual successor, the rugby international Jep Pascot. The Rugby League Federation was dissolved and its assets seized.

Rugby league was able to resume after the liberation of France, but there was no post-war reckoning. While it enjoyed a purple patch in the 1950s with a brilliant generation of players led by Robert Puig-Aubert - who, while denied the right to play league in 1944, helped Pascot's club Perpignan to a national union championship - it has never really recovered.

The bank accounts and physical assets of the French Rugby League Federation were never restored, and it was many years before it regained the right to use the word "rugby", having instead to call itself Jeu à Treize . The Catalans Dragons' run to this year's Challenge Cup final was French league's finest hour in half a century.

Far from suffering for its complicity in collaboration, rugby union was adopted by a state run by men whose reputation was based on their record as resisters. President Charles de Gaulle, influenced in part by the enthusiasm of his close adviser Jacques Chaban-Delmas, never held meetings that clashed with international matches. The national championship final is a semi-state occasion, with the President presenting the trophy.

Quite what restitution might be offered to the Treizistes so long after the war is unclear. The report, though, was eagerly awaited - for its symbolic value as much as anything. An apology would not go amiss. The wait, though, will go on. Sarkozy, evidently unimpressed by immediate predecessor Jacques Chirac's penchant for offering apologies for past wrongs done by the French state - and in particular under Vichy - has said he intends to look ahead rather than back.

His Minister of Sport and Youth will be Bernard Laporte, once he has concluded his unfinished business as coach of the French national team in the World Cup. Unless Laporte has an unexpected shock in store for his former employers, it seems as though rugby union's remembrances - magnetic or otherwise - will remain defective.

Huw Richards is visiting researcher at the International Centre for Sport History and Culture, De Montfort University, and author of A Game for Hooligans: The History of Rugby Union , to be published in November by Mainstream.
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