Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Stewie »

Raiderdave wrote:
Stewie wrote:
Raiderdave wrote:

in favour of your paddle pop wions that

make less money ( they've lost 10 million in the last 3 years ....& probably will lose even more this year )
have less members & less supporters ?

yeah ... that makes sense :-k ............. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Brisbane is a bandwagoner sporting city Raiderdave. You only need to go back a few years to when they last played finals football to see the sort of crowds that they were getting. The nRL won't allow the Broncos not to make the top 8 because they know that their supporters will fall off in droves.

bandwagoner city :-k
the Broncos failed to make the finals in 2010 for the first time in 20 years ... yet they increased their crowds
:lol: :lol: :lol:
wow .. do you know anything .. about anything :-k

they like the swines & vicky kicky in general ..in the nthn states is all but finished for support other then ex pat sthn ****
they could win a contrived title like the swines did this year .. & still not stop their support from falling .. like the swines did this year
of course they won't win anything .. anytime soon
its bye bye wions :wink:
They went out for one year... imagine if they bottomed out for 3 years or more, the drop off in crowds would match that of the Lions. Not to mention that the Broncos get favourable time slots just about every week :roll:
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7K is a tremendous turnout
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Stewie »

Drac wrote:
Raiderdave wrote:


bandwagoner city :-k
the Broncos failed to make the finals in 2010 for the first time in 20 years ... yet they increased their crowds
:lol: :lol: :lol:
wow .. do you know anything .. about anything :-k
Brisbane sport followers bandwagon jump when teams are flying well. Look at the crowds at Reds and Roar games recently.

When the Lions had their success on field, they had a higher average attendance than the Broncos 6 years in a row (2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005). You either have to admit that bandwagon support jumped on the Lions during their successful period, or that for 6 years, Australian Football was more popular than Rugby League in Brisbane.

Personally, I choose to believe that the Brisbane sporting public jumps on a winner, and jumps off when the winning stops.
Raiderdave's response to this should be good. No doubt it will end up being a deflection though and he won't answer it properly though. [-(
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7K is a tremendous turnout
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Xman »

King-Eliagh wrote:
Oh dear. Who we gunna believe - Xman? Or the Chair of the Swans and the PResident of the Western Bulldogs? :lol:

Admit it Xman, there's a serious problem which pretty much all us RL folks have been pointing out to you for a year now and you've been too blind ignorant and/or arrogant to see it. :D
The problem is exactly what I have stated. Remember, the vast majority of AFL clubs earn far more than all NRL clubs bar the broncos. The problem is the amount they are spending. why are they spending too much? because theyre trying to keep up with the many AFL superpowers (crows, pies, bombers, hawkes, eagles, blues). All they need to do is cap operational spending and most of the issues will be resolved.

If they don't address spending I can see the bulldogs and kangaroos merging, as well as the demons and saints. I'd suggest our NRL fans wouldn't want this as we would see two more powerhouse teams in the AFL.
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by King-Eliagh »

"all thay need to do ... " :blahblah: :lol:

The simpleton responds.

No I prefer to believe those with experience and knowledge, the Chair of the swannies and the president of the bulldogs. It's a crisis and there'll need to be some serious discussions and decisions made.

Xman, i think you got some growing up to do young man. And you need to take some time out to think about what you've been pissing onto these boards of late. Its shameful [-X
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KE, why is an even comp important?
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Xman »

King-Eliagh wrote:
"all thay need to do ... " :blahblah: :lol:

The simpleton responds.

No I prefer to believe those with experience and knowledge, the Chair of the swannies and the president of the bulldogs. It's a crisis and there'll need to be some serious discussions and decisions made.

Xman, i think you got some growing up to do young man. And you need to take some time out to think about what you've been pissing onto these boards of late. Its shameful [-X
Of course there needs to be discussions! My opinion has been mentioned before a number of times by people within the AFL. It makes perfect sense. The issues within the AFL arent lack of crowds, memebrs or revenue like the nRL. Our issues will be far easier to solve.
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Striker »

Xman wrote:
15 of 16 nRL clubs wouldn't survive without handouts. They just call them grants. :roll:
What grants? Links please!

I think we all know that the Victorian clubs are suffering because of all the money that's gone into Sydney, Brisbane, the Gold Coast and GWS. Popular ones like Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon do okay but the others are struggling to stay afloat.
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Raiderdave »

Xman wrote:
King-Eliagh wrote:
"all thay need to do ... " :blahblah: :lol:

The simpleton responds.

No I prefer to believe those with experience and knowledge, the Chair of the swannies and the president of the bulldogs. It's a crisis and there'll need to be some serious discussions and decisions made.

Xman, i think you got some growing up to do young man. And you need to take some time out to think about what you've been pissing onto these boards of late. Its shameful [-X
Of course there needs to be discussions! My opinion has been mentioned before . quote]


I just broke wind .... & I was more insightful :wink:
RL SOO II 4.194 Million veiwers
RL SOO I 4.068 Million
NRL GF 3.968 Million
VFL Grand Final 3.620 Million
SOO III 3.364 Million
NRL Prelim 2.219 Million
Kangaroos V NZ 1.214 Million

Sookerwhos V Japan 238K :lol:
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Xman »

Striker wrote:
Xman wrote:
15 of 16 nRL clubs wouldn't survive without handouts. They just call them grants. :roll:
What grants? Links please!

I think we all know that the Victorian clubs are suffering because of all the money that's gone into Sydney, Brisbane, the Gold Coast and GWS. Popular ones like Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon do okay but the others are struggling to stay afloat.
ahh what? :roll:

http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/chan ... 6498086363
NRL clubs will receive their sustainability grants from the ARL Commission on Thursday after a $30 million funding payment was negotiated with the Nine Network.
The 16 NRL clubs are sweating on the outcome of a commission meeting held last Friday with the size of the annual club grants and salary cap increase still shadowed by uncertainty. Clubs are hoping the grant will rise to $6.6 million following the finalisation of a $1 billion media rights deal.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/n ... 6495718884


Your comments about the AFL funding is ridiculous. Its about what clubs are spending, not what they're being paid by the AFL. :roll:
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Xman »

Raiderdave wrote:
Xman wrote:
King-Eliagh wrote:
"all thay need to do ... " :blahblah: :lol:

The simpleton responds.

No I prefer to believe those with experience and knowledge, the Chair of the swannies and the president of the bulldogs. It's a crisis and there'll need to be some serious discussions and decisions made.

Xman, i think you got some growing up to do young man. And you need to take some time out to think about what you've been pissing onto these boards of late. Its shameful [-X
Of course there needs to be discussions! My opinion has been mentioned before . quote]


I just broke wind .... & I was more insightful :wink:
thats about your usual contribution Dave
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Xman »

Melbourne Storm coach Craig Bellamy has challenged NRL teams to keep pace with the AFL and invest more time and money into off-field resources.
Bellamy has recently spent time with Collingwood and seen first hand how many staff are employed to assist the cashed-up Magpies prepare their players each week.
The Storm coach, a special guest on FOX FOOTY's AFL Insider, said his rugby league counterparts would be shocked by the Collingwood set-up.
"I have a lot of admiration for the AFL and how they run their game and the resources the clubs have got," Bellamy said.
"Our game, the clubs are nowhere near as well resourced as AFL clubs.
"They are very good in their recovery methods and the people they have in their clubs.
"In our game, some people would probably think it was excess.
"But our game needs to start going to that level."
Read more: http://www.foxsports.com.au/AFL/AFL-pre ... z29dsQ82SL

I'd love to know how Bellamy thinks the nRL clubs are going to invest more money into off field resources when they struggle to earn more than 15m each and still lose money. :-k :roll:

And this is the point Dave. The AFL clubs have money to invest in better facilities and support staff, the NRL clubs do not. Who is in a better position to tighten their belts? :-k
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Striker »

Xman wrote:
Striker wrote:
Xman wrote:
15 of 16 nRL clubs wouldn't survive without handouts. They just call them grants. :roll:
What grants? Links please!

I think we all know that the Victorian clubs are suffering because of all the money that's gone into Sydney, Brisbane, the Gold Coast and GWS. Popular ones like Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon do okay but the others are struggling to stay afloat.
ahh what? :roll:

http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/chan ... 6498086363
NRL clubs will receive their sustainability grants from the ARL Commission on Thursday after a $30 million funding payment was negotiated with the Nine Network.
The 16 NRL clubs are sweating on the outcome of a commission meeting held last Friday with the size of the annual club grants and salary cap increase still shadowed by uncertainty. Clubs are hoping the grant will rise to $6.6 million following the finalisation of a $1 billion media rights deal.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/n ... 6495718884


Your comments about the AFL funding is ridiculous. Its about what clubs are spending, not what they're being paid by the AFL. :roll:
I should have clarified. I wanted links to prove that grants kept clubs afloat, not grants in general.

And how was I talking about AFL funding? All I said was that many Victorian clubs were struggling and in fact they don't get funded by the AFL because all their money is going to where I said they were going! So clubs have to spend and they can't without getting themselves into trouble! No such problem in the NRL. We just aren't getting the money in to start with and that's why the general grants are there.
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Xman »

Striker wrote:
Xman wrote:
Striker wrote:
What grants? Links please!

I think we all know that the Victorian clubs are suffering because of all the money that's gone into Sydney, Brisbane, the Gold Coast and GWS. Popular ones like Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon do okay but the others are struggling to stay afloat.
ahh what? :roll:

http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/chan ... 6498086363
NRL clubs will receive their sustainability grants from the ARL Commission on Thursday after a $30 million funding payment was negotiated with the Nine Network.
The 16 NRL clubs are sweating on the outcome of a commission meeting held last Friday with the size of the annual club grants and salary cap increase still shadowed by uncertainty. Clubs are hoping the grant will rise to $6.6 million following the finalisation of a $1 billion media rights deal.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/n ... 6495718884


Your comments about the AFL funding is ridiculous. Its about what clubs are spending, not what they're being paid by the AFL. :roll:
I should have clarified. I wanted links to prove that grants kept clubs afloat, not grants in general.

And how was I talking about AFL funding? All I said was that many Victorian clubs were struggling and in fact they don't get funded by the AFL because all their money is going to where I said they were going! So clubs have to spend and they can't without getting themselves into trouble! No such problem in the NRL. We just aren't getting the money in to start with and that's why the general grants are there.
It's a well known fact all NRL teams except the broncos make a loss each year. Most make less than 20m a year including grants. How would they survive without a grant of 5m?
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Xman »

PETER Gordon saved old Footscray's name in 1989 by rattling tins and creating a Barack Obama-style groundswell of what he called ''micro donations'' from ordinary supporters. In his second coming as president of the Bulldogs, he is also tapping into the well-heeled and reaching into his own far deeper pockets to ensure that the Dogs don't find themselves in quicksand again.
Footscray had what then seemed insurmountable debt of $1.5 to $2 million when this impassioned lawyer orchestrated ''the Save the Dogs'' campaign. Today, the club's debt is closer to $10 million, yet it is not facing the same existential threat. The wolves aren't at the Dogs' door.
Gordon notes that the debt the Dogs had in 1989 was equal to ''100 per cent of the club's actual revenue and this year's it's less than a third''. But the more pertinent difference is this: That, in 1989, the league was walking the Dogs down the aisle in an arranged marriage with Fitzroy and actively sought to reduce the number of [Melbourne] clubs. In 2012, the AFL has a safety net that protects the vulnerable - read small - clubs.

Socialism - not a word Gordon likes deployed in a football context - has ensured that there are still 10 teams in Victoria and quite a few outside of this state. When Gordon left old Footscray in 1996 and it re-branded as the Western Bulldogs, the AFL was dealing with the fallout from ''the Melbourne Hawks'', which was subsequently seen as the (failed) merger to end all mergers.

In the decade after Gordon's exit, every single club played in a preliminary final - including Richmond and Fremantle. Collingwood rose from ruin, Carlton fell into disrepute for several years. The Dogs were within a kick of that first grand final since 1954 in his first season of exile, when the Saints lost to Adelaide, Melbourne made a grand final in 2000 and was a regular finalist under Neale Daniher. North Melbourne, foiled in its attempt to take over Fitzroy in the year it won the 1996 premiership, won a second flag in 1999; Port Adelaide, later to prove the most impecunious of non-Victorian clubs, was premier in 2004.
The years from 1997-2006 were the heady days of football socialism. There was a competitive balance in the competition, courtesy of the draft and a salary cap that was actually enforced. But socialism had its limits. Some clubs were more equal than others, as the blockbusters and free-to-air television coverage confirmed. While the AFL sought to compensate by handing the poorer clubs a cheque - and by sending them to Canberra and Darwin - it could not control what clubs spent outside of player payments. So began the football department ''arms race'', in which development coaches would multiply, recruiting budgets exploded and the once humble fitness coach was re-invented as ''director of sports science''.


The clubs with money and smarts found ways to gain a critical millimetre of advantage. Collingwood, the heaviest spender in football, would not miss the finals from 2006 until this year. Sydney - a club without vast funds but which was consistently in the top four football budgets - would remain thereabouts and win a second flag this year without the need to bottom out. Geelong, with a home ground goldmine, became the Corio Bay Packers - a provincial powerhouse, Hawthorn, too, turned dollars into wins, while West Coast proved recession proof.
In 2012, the ladder is heavily biased towards the clubs that are best resourced; more worrisome, the Dogs are down, the Demons haven't played finals since 2006, North has muddled along and Port has become nouveau poor. This week, the fixture will hand Collingwood seven Friday night games, the Bulldogs none. If this is partly due to results, does anyone doubt that the Pies, Essendon or Carlton would be so deprived of prime time if they were holding up the ladder?

The new inequality, apparent for a few years, is suddenly a hot topic, with Sydney chairman Richard Colless raising the question of how clubs can be better supported. ''I'm certainly of the view that there is a reasonably direct lineal correlation between football spending and success on the field,'' said Gordon, whose club spent about $5 million less on football - largely excluding player payments - than the Pies and Eagles behemoths this year.
The trading and free-agency period exposed a troubling disparity that is seldom spoken about - the higher amounts that the weak clubs must pay to recruit or retain players when they are down the ladder. Angus Monfries is receiving around $1.5 million over four years at Port; Essendon offered much less over two. Chris Dawes gets a hefty contract from the desperate Demons, while Mitch Brown is offered $400,000 or more for four years by the Saints. Conversely, Brian Lake has donned brown and gold for far less than the Dogs were paying him.
The AFL is wondering how it might restore equality and fraternity, without ditching liberty. It has already revamped its funding models, handing more dough to the Dogs, Saints, North, Demons, Port and Richmond from 2012-14. The Tigers won't need it if they win games. The others will, no matter where they finish.
One proposal that has been raised within club-land is what has been called ''a luxury tax''. Under this form of ''New Socialism'', the rich can spend whatever they like on football - hiring a coach and career adviser for every player if they wish - but they would be taxed once the outlay reaches a certain number. If the Eagles' footy budget exceeded $20 million, for instance, they would pay the AFL, say, 25 cents for every dollar over that amount. The theory is that no one wants to stymie innovation, or equalise to the point teams lose any sense of individuality, but that, equally, they have to be competing on something like level terms.
Over the next few weeks, the US will decide which form of free market capitalism it wants. ''Communist'' China will choose its leadership and chart a new course at the National People's Congress. The AFL, more akin to social democratic Norway, is trying to navigate the next phase and maintain an egalitarian competition without killing initiative. It has already allowed the players greater freedom of movement - Kurt Tippett excepted. How it handles finer points of this new socialism has become the game's big question.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/AFL/AFL-news/t ... z2AXETsYlZ

this is exactly what I have been talking about. AFL clubs arent going into debt because they cannot service their essential costs. They arent like a number of NRL clubs which are without a CEO, dont pay staff super, or pay their players late. AFL clubs are trying to compete with off-field football department extravagance. Sydney spent 5 million less than Collingwood on football operations last year, with far lower annual revenue. No wonder some teams are feeling the strain! #-o Clubs have realised that success on the field is related to off-field spending where there is significant disparity.

The AFL will address this issue one way or another in the coming years and the league will be safe as houses. Every club has enough revenue to more than survive. Unfortunately you cannot say that for many nRL clubs which just do not earn enough yearly revenue to cover their essential costs.
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Striker »

Xman wrote:
Striker wrote:
Xman wrote:
ahh what? :roll:

http://www.news.com.au/top-stories/chan ... 6498086363
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/n ... 6495718884


Your comments about the AFL funding is ridiculous. Its about what clubs are spending, not what they're being paid by the AFL. :roll:
I should have clarified. I wanted links to prove that grants kept clubs afloat, not grants in general.

And how was I talking about AFL funding? All I said was that many Victorian clubs were struggling and in fact they don't get funded by the AFL because all their money is going to where I said they were going! So clubs have to spend and they can't without getting themselves into trouble! No such problem in the NRL. We just aren't getting the money in to start with and that's why the general grants are there.
It's a well known fact all NRL teams except the broncos make a loss each year. Most make less than 20m a year including grants. How would they survive without a grant of 5m?
AFL clubs have bigger debt issues than the NRL clubs!
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Re: Swines Chairmen " VFL Falling apart"

Post by Stewie »

Striker wrote:
Xman wrote:
Striker wrote:
I should have clarified. I wanted links to prove that grants kept clubs afloat, not grants in general.

And how was I talking about AFL funding? All I said was that many Victorian clubs were struggling and in fact they don't get funded by the AFL because all their money is going to where I said they were going! So clubs have to spend and they can't without getting themselves into trouble! No such problem in the NRL. We just aren't getting the money in to start with and that's why the general grants are there.
It's a well known fact all NRL teams except the broncos make a loss each year. Most make less than 20m a year including grants. How would they survive without a grant of 5m?
AFL clubs have bigger debt issues than the NRL clubs!
Debt "crisis" my arse. Read Xman's post and you'll understand.
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