Racism off the field NRL vs AFL

[King-Eliagh]

Nice apology, you needed to do that pies.

As to your second paragraph. In future pies I want you to give me more credit. Yes, more please . Do you really think I would suggest that if something is international then there is without doubt less racism? On the contrary pies I'd suggest the opposite is true. Without contact between different cultures racism doesnt exist, right? Now I may not have written it perfectly before and if so I apologise but I think if you give me more credit, yes, more please then this lil misunderstanding wouldnt have occurred. Now, what I'm suggesting is that on the spectrum, scale, path to enlightened culturally aware/safe organisations of people, RL and the NRL is quite some way ahead of the AFL. They've worked well through their becoming a multicultural league, they've done it well and have less racist occurances than the AFL - who are barely beginning their journey into a multicultural league. Soccer in the UK looks to be an ugly scene, they're clearly struggling with educating their players... it's clearly a bitchy scene...quite different to the NRL. My theory? In the NRL men are tough. Someone blurts out racist remarks they're likely to get flattened quick smart by not only the one who was perpetrated against, but by his teammates also. A deserved, simple and effective punishment. People learn quick, often before entering senior comps that its not ok or cool and hence it almost just doesnt happen. In soccer this simply isnt the case, nor is it in the AFL anymore... you like that theory pies?

[piesman2011]

Nice apology, you needed to do that pies.

As to your second paragraph. In future pies I want you to give me more credit. Yes, more please . Do you really think I would suggest that if something is international then there is without doubt less racism? On the contrary pies I'd suggest the opposite is true. Without contact between different cultures racism doesnt exist, right? Now I may not have written it perfectly before and if so I apologise but I think if you give me more credit, yes, more please then this lil misunderstanding wouldnt have occurred. Now, what I'm suggesting is that on the spectrum, scale, path to enlightened culturally aware/safe organisations of people, RL and the NRL is quite some way ahead of the AFL. They've worked well through their becoming a multicultural league, they've done it well and have less racist occurances than the AFL - who are barely beginning their journey into a multicultural league. Soccer in the UK looks to be an ugly scene, they're clearly struggling with educating their players... it's clearly a bitchy scene...quite different to the NRL. My theory? In the NRL men are tough. Someone blurts out racist remarks they're likely to get flattened quick smart by not only the one who was perpetrated against, but by his teammates also. A deserved, simple and effective punishment. People learn quick, often before entering senior comps that its not ok or cool and hence it almost just doesnt happen. In soccer this simply isnt the case, nor is it in the AFL anymore... you like that theory pies?

Disagree with a few of your points. That the NRL/RL is ahead of the AFL in terms of path to enlightened culturally aware/safe organisation and that the if someone blunts out a racist remark in the AFL people don't cop it big time. Both of these comments show a bit of ignorance.(sorry it's just my opinion) From all that has been said over the last few months both competitions are clearly at the same level. Guess we will have to disagree on this one. I'm thinking you can't really say that this isn't an Australian issue rather then a sports one and I feel that both sports have done all that they can to stamp it out although both have had issues.
Good on your for admitting that you may have written that international comment poorly, I was about to blast you for it but I decided that perhaps it was just a poorly worded piece of writing or I might be stupid, which is always a possibility, the stupid man rarely knows his own dumbness( quoting RD on that last word).

[King-Eliagh]

Well when goodesy told us last year that there are many cases which go by unreported, I think we need to triple the cases we hear about in the AFL. I havent heard RL folks saying the same. In fact Jamal Idris says he's never come across it in RL...Seriously both orgs cant be at the same level, think pies, think! Its nigh on impossible. One is more enlightened, and that my friend is the NRL, by a long shot.

Of course its an australian issue pies but that's a cop out. Some schools have more of a racism problem than others in this country. Some organisations - the same. Leadership and the culture of the orgs/institutions is what this is all about. The AFL on the scale of things is possibly better than many orgs in aus, but its a ways behind the nrl and clearly has a problem with racists and how to punish them. What's gunna happen to Eddie?

[piesman2011]

Same thing will happen to Eddie as will happen to Darrell Williams and David Morrow. They will have to pass an education program, they will probably be rejected by all when they apply to work in the media or any where else in the future and they have been publically disgraced. The difference was that what Eddie did was accidental (unthinking) while to other two were deliberate. But in the end that doesn't matter they all need an education. All were men of similar standing. The crowds for both sports have a similar issue as well. I suspect that the players for the NRL are better educated on this with close to what is it 50% being of non European decent, while the AFL would be closer to 15%. But the players make up less then 1% of the people involved in the game. Overall both codes have similar problems. The difference is that I can see this, the sad thing is that you can't.

[King-Eliagh]

Dear lord, Eddie was diff because his was "unthinking"!? that's about the dumbest thing I've heard and beavis and butthead is one of my fav cartoons!

Give urself an uppercut. Eddie has made racist and homophobic gaffs b4. He's a coward knob who likes taking shots at minority groups.

Furthermore the man still has his job, with collington and the media as far as I know. Give urself another uppercut.

[piesman2011]

Dear lord, Eddie was diff because his was "unthinking"!? that's about the dumbest thing I've heard and beavis and butthead is one of my fav cartoons!

Give urself an uppercut. Eddie has made racist and homophobic gaffs b4. He's a coward knob who likes taking shots at minority groups.

Furthermore the man still has his job, with collington and the media as far as I know. Give urself another uppercut.

Is that you RD? Just ignore the rest then. gg.

[King-Eliagh]

Oh you want me to address more? Eddie McGuire had a similar standing in soc as darrell Williams and David Morris or whatever their names are? another uppercut pies, give it to urself!

Talk about conveniently avoiding issues. Goods last year tells us of many racism cases jb the field going unreported. Idris months latr tells us he hasn't had no probs in the nrl. What's with that pies?

[Swans4ever]

You live in fairy land KE, you hear but you do not listen, you look but you do not see, you believe everything in RL is perfect, you never criticise or admit to failures but you continually tell us how bad AF is. I don't know what your talking about - I have seen many things on footy fields that I both am humbled by and outraged by. I have seen a Vietnamese boy called a chink, a koorie lad called a champion (I have coached AF for many years). I have seen day release prisoners playing RL show more respect than Policeman - but you KE spout one comment from Jamal as proof that RL is perfect. When I said that I wanted to hear both sides before I made up my mind you then accused me of being racist. This country will not progress while people like you are quick to put labels on people without first listening to their argument. I am not sticking up for Eddie he should know better and I don't accept his version ONCE I heard it, he made fun of a situation for cheap laughs because he could. You however don't have the capacity to know right from wrong because you don't examine both sides, you promote only the side that favours whatever point you want to make. Racism is not confind to Australia or Australians, in Italy they threw bananas at a black player, in china, Chinese students rioted against African Students, or Japanese Brazilians in Japan the list is endless, but you take a social issue and point the finger like "there you see I told you this is why the sport is bad in comparison to RL". The simple fact is there will always be bigots and racists. I am comfortable with how I am with other nationalities so I care not that you have placed a label on me. But you and Raiderdave are definitley bigots, you can't accept that AF means as much to others as RL means to you. Me I don't hate RL even if its a fight club, I don't hate the sport, I do however think many (not most of its fans) are extremely Sydney centric and narrow minded!

[piesman2011]

Oh you want me to address more? Eddie McGuire had a similar standing in soc as darrell Williams and David Morris or whatever their names are? another uppercut pies, give it to urself!

Talk about conveniently avoiding issues. Goods last year tells us of many racism cases jb the field going unreported. Idris months latr tells us he hasn't had no probs in the nrl. What's with that pies?

No point talking about this i guess.

[Judge J]

Let us put some perspective on this argument over which is the more racist code.

I think you will find that in the cold hard light of day, it comes down to who has the rules in place and the willingness to enforce them. On this point, the AFL is a long way in front. The reason why it appears that the AFL has a big problem is because people are getting caught. This causes publicity. The NRL on the other hand do not have the points on the board over catching the racists.

So it is something of a misnomer to judge a sport on the amount of publicity it gets. What are the hidden numbers? It should also be noted (and this does apply to both codes) that Aborigines have played the game for a lot longer than anyone thinks. In New South Wales and Queensland rugby league has a big history of Aboriginal players dating back to when the game was first played. In the other states the same applies to AFL, remembering that King Eliagh's reference to "Marngrook" is very pertinent in the context of player participation.

[King-Eliagh]

Not a bad point there judge judy. Yes what are the hidden numbers? This is tough to find out and we'll never be sure. But from my experience and research I'd suggest the hidden numbers are higher in marngrook...unfortunately. I've only played this sport for 3 seasons and I've come across several racist remarks. I'm disappointed i didnt pull them up but its tough with teammates who you join battle with on the pitch... in contrast whilst playing other footy codes I barely came across anything.

Add to this the real mix of people of colour in RL, reflecting australias contemporary landscape, compared to that in marngrook, which reflects australia during the very racist mid 20th century.

Additionally it appears there are numerous circumstances happening in the AFL. I dont know about the policy/AFL catches them argument here judy, I doubt the media would simply ignore racism in the nrl, in fact they do and have done the opposite.

And on top of all this the Goodes v Idris remarks are quite stark in their contrast and quite disappointing you folks seem to shirk away from this evidence also.

[Judge J]

I have refereed rugby league and I can tell you that racism was rife. This was of course a number of years ago so I do not know what it's like now. So I doubt your own experience matches the whole scenario.

Kindly do not call me "Judy" again.

[King-Eliagh]

My own experience cannot match "the whole scenario", thats impossible. But I'm the only one who's providing real experience combined with documented evidence, combined with social theory. Its called the triangulation method. Using various forms of data to create a sound picture.

How long ago was your refereeing in RL? Unfortunately I've heard 3 racist remarks in the last 2 months of playing marngrook, and I've missed many games and training sessions!

As for judge judy, comon? This isnt the reference in your judge j?



I must say, you have acted quite like this personality in many of your posts

[Judge J]

No, you will not refer to that woman when addressing me, thank you.

Your "social theory" is not reality. My experience as a referee was from the early 1990's. Three racist remarks in two months? I heard more than three in every game I refereed. You may have missed remarks, but at best the two would be equal. You can not provide any evidence otherwise upon your fallacy based assumption. I sense bias against AFL and protection for rugby league. Best if you admit in the cold hard light of day that you don't really know. I'm not saying I do either as I don't have any AFL experience. But it would seem that my League experience may well be well beyond your AFL experience.

[King-Eliagh]

Early 1990s! Well i'm not surprised. The makeup of teams back then was primarily white anglo, quite similar to what AFL teams are nowadays actually.

Social theory is based on serious research judy my friend. You oughtta not dis it like you do if you wanna not be called judge judy from now on. Ok?

Of course I dont really know the answer but evidence suggests it's very likely the AFL has a higher incidence of racists amongst its ranks. A problem that should be seriously addressed. I mean some serious moolah going into removing the established institutional racism. It could then lead the way in action against racism, rather than right policy which has no effect. Imagine that eh?