Foxtel or Channel 7 & 10?

[Beaussie]

The AFL will not allow community tv to broadcast in Sydney and Brisbane judging by Demetriou's latest comments on the issue. Also looks like Foxtel is going to pay a heavy price without AFL coverage:

Demetriou would not say whether the AFL would veto any deal to on-sell games to Channel 31, but added: "Last time I checked I couldn't get Channel 31."

The AFL would be happy to see games on SBS, the ABC or Foxtel. When asked about a possible deal with Channel 31, Demetriou replied: "We'd be thrilled with ABC and SBS."

Seven and Ten, which in January won the AFL television rights with a $780 million bid over five years, vowed privately last night that they would show all AFL home-and-away games and finals until 2011.

They have already begun preparing an advertising campaign urging pay TV subscribers to turn in their transponders.

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/real ... 82557.html

[Willis 21]

Good to see Foxtel are going to concentrate on other sports now that they have brushed the AFL...

http://www.theage.com.au/realfooty/news ... 51066.html

[quote]
Foxtel vows to take on AFL using rival codes

Caroline Wilson and Michael Gleeson
November 24, 2006

FOXTEL chief executive Kim Williams has vowed to take on AFL football through his network's three rival codes â€â€

[Willis 21]

BTW Beaussie, you are being a farkwit by selectively editing/rearranging parts of the article to suit your argument...

Here is the full article.. make of it what you will... I've bolded relavent bits of the article that contradict your point of view...

Footy goes to air for free
Caroline Wilson
November 23, 2006

EVERY AFL game will be shown on free-to-air television next season following yesterday's breakdown of last-ditch negotiations between Channels Seven, Ten and Foxtel.

Seven and Ten, which in January won the AFL television rights with a $780 million bid over five years, vowed privately last night that they would show all AFL home-and-away games and finals until 2011.

They have already begun preparing an advertising campaign urging pay TV subscribers to turn in their transponders.

The breakdown in talks means the networks will be paying almost double what they had planned. The financial winners will be AFL fans, who will no longer have to pay to watch AFL games.

As first revealed by The Age in September, community station Channel 31 is now likely to be called in to show matches and football events that Seven and Ten are committed to under their contract with the AFL. This could include some pre-season games into Melbourne.

The stand by Seven and Ten followed an uneasy meeting in Sydney yesterday involving Foxtel chief executive Kim Williams, Seven CEO David Leckie and Ten's Grant Blackley. Mr Williams said Foxtel would not increase its $45 million offer to show four games a week. The networks want $60 million.

AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou expressed his displeasure at the prospect of Channel 31 broadcasting games, but said it was not the AFL's problem if a deal could not be struck.

"Seven and Ten have purchased the right to eight free-to-air games and the right to on-sell up to four games to another broadcaster should they come to an arrangement. Failing that, they will be showing eight games on free-to-air and that's what we expect," he said.

Demetriou would not say whether the AFL would veto any deal to on-sell games to Channel 31, but added: "Last time I checked I couldn't get Channel 31."

The AFL would be happy to see games on SBS, the ABC or Foxtel. When asked about a possible deal with Channel 31, Demetriou replied: "We'd be thrilled with ABC and SBS."

Only a major policy backflip by Foxtel and its key shareholder, Publishing and Broadcasting Limited, could now see AFL football shown next year on the recently launched Fox Sports Three.

Mr Williams told the free-to-air networks that Foxtel planned to retain some commitment to AFL through panel programs such as On The Couch.

Seven and Ten executives, who dined with AFL officials at Werribee earlier this week, told them that yesterday's meeting would prove the final chance for Foxtel to come back on board.

Ten chairman Nick Falloon is believed to have emphasised that Foxtel would miss out on football for five years if it did not come on board.

The AFL is believed to have written to Seven and Ten requesting details of their proposed deal with Channel 31, including the quality of its signal. The community network might also be used to televise events such as the All-Australian team announcement, the AFL draft and Hall of Fame inductions

.

[Beaussie]

Came across this over at LU and thought it was very interesting indeed. Your thoughts Willis:

The best result for the AFL is all games on FTA everywhere. Yes, it’d be a disaster for 7 and 10 as they’d certainly get thrashed in the ratings on most occasions. But with the money in the bank, the actual ratings don’t matter to the AFL. What matters is the game becomes hard to ignore. The casual viewer won’t be able to help but catch the odd five minutes here, or a quarter there. If the game is close and exciting and there’s nothing else interesting on then they might stick with it to the end. That’s all the AFL want, a background hum where people get use to the game being there. And after five years of that constant exposure they hope to find that odd five minutes or quarter has turned into a following. Not rabid, life long supporters. Just a large slice of new casual followers who are happy to sit down and watch a full game every other week.

As I said, the initial ratings would be a disaster for 7 and 10. But don’t assume that means they’ll never do a deal like this again. The biggest pain is going to be inflicted in year one. But by year five, through the constant exposure and the almost inevitable increase in casual followers, there may very well be enough of an audience to make it worthwhile continuing. That is the danger for RL. Nein and the NRL will have plenty of laughs at the AFL, 7 and 10’s expense next year but if it results in enough of a foothold to keep the full court press going in years 6-10 then the contest is going to suddenly become a lot more serious. That’s what the AFL want and if they can manage to drag 7 and 10 along kicking and screaming then it’s unlikely to ever have to backtrack. If RL and its media partner are smart about this they’ll be pushing their product as hard as possible into the AFL’s home territory to even up the balance. What they lose in the north in the long term they need to aim to gain in the south. That means taking the same initial disastrous loses and ridicule that the AFL and its media partners will take. But will that ever happen with Nein by our side? Again, that’s the danger for RL.

Leigh

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showt ... p?t=159102

[Beaussie]

I've bolded relavent bits of the article that contradict your point of view...

Footy goes to air for free
Caroline Wilson
November 23, 2006

The breakdown in talks means the networks will be paying almost double what they had planned. The financial winners will be AFL fans, who will no longer have to pay to watch AFL games.

The unbolded part is the most significant I would've thought from an AFL supporters point of view. Let's not forget the AFL's goal of having all footy shown live in the northern states. Even better when it's free wouldn't you think?

As first revealed by The Age in September, community station Channel 31 is now likely to be called in to show matches and football events that Seven and Ten are committed to under their contract with the AFL. This could include some pre-season games into Melbourne.

Will never happen.

The AFL would be happy to see games on SBS, the ABC or Foxtel. When asked about a possible deal with Channel 31, Demetriou replied: "We'd be thrilled with ABC and SBS."

True.

The AFL is believed to have written to Seven and Ten requesting details of their proposed deal with Channel 31, including the quality of its signal. The community network might also be used to televise events such as the All-Australian team announcement, the AFL draft and Hall of Fame inductions

Channel 31 simply is not an option.

Foxtel negotiations break down
November 23, 2006 12:00

AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou is unconcerned about ongoing speculation community station Channel 31 could become involved in broadcasting the game.

But he again made it clear the league would be unlikely to approve Channel 31's involvement.

"We look forward to ongoing discussions. I can't get Channel 31, I don't know if many people can, so as it stands today all I know is we've got football on Seven and Ten.''

Demetriou pointed out the league has the power of veto over any on-selling plan and is refusing to comment on speculation about what might happen. "We have to give consent to who the rights are on-sold to, that's in our agreement, it's very clear to Seven and Ten,'' he said.

"I keep hearing that there's all sorts of alternatives to Seven and Ten, but as I understand it, as it stands today they'll be showing eight games on free-to-air, including in New South Wales and Queensland, on Seven and Ten,'' Demetriou said.

"It's a fantastic outcome for our supporters, I don't know why anyone thinks it's damaging our brand. I would have thought supporters are thrilled that they're going to be watching football for the next five years on Seven and Ten, free-to-air.'' =D>

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/s ... 65,00.html

[Willis 21]

IF we are quoting League Unlimited as a source..

In the Fin Review today, unamed executives from Seven/Ten have said:

'They can't veto anything. We bought the rights to eight games a week and we can on-sell up to four games.'

When you have paid $780m, I would agree with them

In relation to the post you have quoted, I don't agree with him... its not like AFL has never been shown before in prime time in Sydney and Brisbane...its been on TV there for 20 years...

The ratings are below average for games involving the Swans and Lions, and absolutely diabolical for games involving other teams...

But go back to the first page of this thread... I want to see Channel 7 and 10 telecast the games into Sydney , especially on a Friday night??

Can you imagine a live telecast of say the AFL Bulldogs v Dockers going up against a live NRL game say Wests v Parramatta in Sydney??

The AFL game would be lucky to get 40,000...

It would be the lowest that the Channels would ever have rated during Prime time,..

At the end of the day, the AFL won't let a commercial netowrk face that embarrassment, especially one that has paid so much money for its product...

[Grim Reaper]

Oh for Allah sakes you loser Brucey.....fuck off!

[Beaussie]

Good to see Foxtel are going to concentrate on other sports now that they have brushed the AFL...

Good luck to them. I honestly can't see much potential for growth without the AFL when you consider sport is the main subscription driver. Many over at Big Footy are already cancelling their subscriptions because of the demise of Fox Footy.

Is it any wonder that FOxtel have dumped this over priced turkey of AFL coverage??

Concentrate on what people actually wanna watch!!!

You over-estimate the popularity of Foxtel. There can't be all that many watching when you consider the following in regards to Channel 31:

A not-for-profit station, Channel 31 began in 1994. It now has 20 full-time staff. The station's 2004-05 financial year report disclosed cash reserves of just $34,894, but its programs regularly out-rate offerings on Foxtel's pay TV service.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2006/ ... ?from=top5

Channel 31 regularly out-rates Foxtel. Well there you go.

[Beaussie]

In the Fin Review today, unamed executives from Seven/Ten have said:

'They can't veto anything. We bought the rights to eight games a week and we can on-sell up to four games.'

When you have paid $780m, I would agree with them

Obviously those unamed executives don't understand the concept of a contract?

In relation to the post you have quoted, I don't agree with him... its not like AFL has never been shown before in prime time in Sydney and Brisbane...its been on TV there for 20 years...

AFL has not been shown in Sydney during prime time for 20 years? Fair dinkum. It's only been broadcast by Channel 10 in prime time for the last 5 years and only ever Swans or Lions games in NSW and QLD.

At the end of the day, the AFL won't let a commercial netowrk face that embarrassment, especially one that has paid so much money for its product...

The AFL I think believes the audience will grow with time and increased free to air coverage. 8 games broadcast live each and every weekend of the AFL season will be a fantastic promotional tool in NSW and QLD. Viewers simply wont be able to avoid watching a game.

[Grim Reaper]

I think the rest of the real AFL states have to stop worrying about if QLD and NSW dont get AFL games.....who cares!

[Willis 21]

You over-estimate the popularity of Foxtel. There can't be all that many watching when you consider the following in regards to Channel 31:

A not-for-profit station, Channel 31 began in 1994. It now has 20 full-time staff. The station's 2004-05 financial year report disclosed cash reserves of just $34,894, but its programs regularly out-rate offerings on Foxtel's pay TV service.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2006/ ... ?from=top5

Channel 31 regularly out-rates Foxtel. Well there you go.

I've posted a link showing the numbers and highest rating programs on Fox...

If you think that 200,000 + people watch Channel 31 then you have got rocks in your head...

Good luck to them. I honestly can't see much potential for growth without the AFL when you consider sport is the main subscription driver. Many over at Big Footy are already cancelling their subscriptions because of the demise of Fox Footy.

Having AFL coverage never drove subscriptions anyway... is it any wonder when they were never allowed to show the games involving local teams in WA and SA? Where is the incentive for people to take it up?

AFL has not been shown in Sydney during prime time for 20 years? Fair dinkum. It's only been broadcast by Channel 10 in prime time for the last 5 years and only ever Swans or Lions games in NSW and QLD.

Are you sure?? I haven't watched too many AFL games over the years, but I'm pretty sure the 1996 Semi Final involving the Swans one point win over Essendon was shown live on Sat night..

Obviously those unamed executives don't understand the concept of a contract?

So you have seen the details of the contract have you??

I think the rest of the real AFL states have to stop worrying about if QLD and NSW dont get AFL games.....who cares!

No one in NSW and QLD will care when the Dockers are playing Geelong, thats for sure....

[Beaussie]

Are you sure?? I haven't watched too many AFL games over the years, but I'm pretty sure the 1996 Semi Final involving the Swans one point win over Essendon was shown live on Sat night..

So one final broadcast in prime time prior to the last five years means AFL has been broadcast in prime time for 20 odd years in Sydney?

Obviously those unamed executives don't understand the concept of a contract?

So you have seen the details of the contract have you??

No, but I wouldn't think Demetriou would be saying the things he has been in the media regarding rights to veto etc if that was not the case. What do you reckon?

[Beaussie]

Interesting comments below from the V8 boss. The demise of Foxtel would be disasterous for the other codes in particular NRL and A-League one would think considering how dependent these codes are on Foxtel. Who'd broadcast their games with no pay tv?

Foxtel must have AFL to survive: V8 boss
Sunday Nov 26 15:10 AEDT
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=165735

V8 Supercars boss Tony Cochrane says Foxtel will be dead in two years if it doesn't bite the bullet and purchase AFL games off networks Seven and Ten.

Faced with his own championship being affected if Network Seven is forced into broadcasting AFL matches all weekend, Cochrane claimed pay television provider Foxtel simply could not exist without broadcasting AFL matches.

"Foxtel in Australia will be out of business in two years time if they don't telecast AFL," said Cochrane.

"The primary reason why people buy Foxtel, and I am one, is to get the other AFL games that I can't get on free-to-air.

"So if you take AFL off Foxtel you may as well chop their business program in half before your very eyes and if Foxtel can't see that then they ought to get some new executives."

Foxtel has declined to pay the $60 million Ten and Seven are demanding for four AFL matches per week, offering $45 million for the rights.

If an agreement can't be reached by December 1, the two free-to-air networks must fulfil their contract with the AFL by broadcasting all eight matches live each week themselves.

This would affect V8 Supercars, which signed a $170 million six-year agreement with network Seven earlier this year to have live broadcasts across the weekend.

If Seven is forced to broadcast Sunday AFL games, three rounds of the V8 series will be forced into an early race finish of around 1.30pm - with the two races on that day only separated by half an hour.

Cochrane believes "sanity will prevail" and Foxtel will purchase the AFL games, but he said if it doesn't then early racing is a small price to pay for the switch to the network.

"There's no headaches, the only headaches are in minds of journalists. The common man ought to be totally relaxed," he said.

"Eleven events are unaffected, three events are affected. We knew that going in and we think that is a very small price to pay to get all the benefits Seven are offering.

"I don't call that major shift or seismic change."

Meanwhile, a Network Ten insider claims Seven paid well over what the V8 rights were worth to snare then from Ten and could lose up to $10 million per year on the project.

The insider predicted fans would be the biggest losers.

"There will be a honeymoon period for three months and then reality will strike," the source said.

Cochrane, however, maintained he was not at all nervous about the uncertainty which lies ahead, and said he was excited about having Seven broadcast the series.

"Seven have bought two major sporting properties to make them the number one sporting network in Australia, AFL and V8 Supercars," he said.

"They are going to do, I'm sure, an outstanding job with both, underlining with both."

[Willis 21]

Faced with his own championship being affected if Network Seven is forced into broadcasting AFL matches all weekend

I stopped reading there.. talk about a vested interest...

You still haven't responded to my statement that AFL coverage hasn't driven subscriptions in AFL states, particulary WA and SA where Foxtel are never permitted to show the Eagles, Dockers, Crows and Power games in those states??

Where is the incentive for people to take up Foxtel if the most popular teams are always on FTA??

I have posted the highest rating shows on Foxtel, and its obvious that AFL is not a ratings winner, and thus does not drive subscriptions for Foxtel.

Before you post any other opinions ( Who's gunna be next, The Pope??), how about you respond to those facts??

[Beaussie]

You still haven't responded to my statement that AFL coverage hasn't driven subscriptions in AFL states, particulary WA and SA where Foxtel are never permitted to show the Eagles, Dockers, Crows and Power games in those states??

What... you think all West and South Australians support the Eagles, Dockers, Crows and Power? I guess that would also explain why many of the footy supporters I know in Sydney have Foxtel despite the Swans being shown live each and every week on free to air tv.