The No.1 Football Code in Australia

[piesman2011]

nope different poll one.

I agree with almost all that you say. I would just say that popularity and TV ratings are not the same thing. It is impossible to watch more then about 5 AFL games live every week so it is hard to judge its popularity in that sense. NRL is much more TV viewer friendly in that regards.

BTW NRL is a good game and I enjoy watching the odd game wish, there was more of it live into Melbourne.

[piesman2011]

nope different poll one.

I agree with almost all that you say. I would just say that popularity and TV ratings are not the same thing. It is impossible to watch more then about 5 AFL games live every week so it is hard to judge its popularity in that sense. NRL is much more TV viewer friendly in that regards.

BTW NRL is a good game and I enjoy watching the odd game, wish there was more of it live into Melbourne.

[Xman]

nope different poll one.

I agree with almost all that you say. I would just say that popularity and TV ratings are not the same thing. It is impossible to watch more then about 5 AFL games live every week so it is hard to judge its popularity in that sense. NRL is much more TV viewer friendly in that regards.

BTW NRL is a good game and I enjoy watching the odd game wish there was more if it live into Melbourne.

BINGO. This is the reason the cummulative numbers are BS. The NRL count their audiences 7-8 times a week. The AFL cannot do this.

As far as a national audience the AFL have exceeded 1million viewers excluding FTA regionals 10 times this year already! The NRL arent even close.

[pussycat]

When you count just half the the audience, we've had just the 1 game thats exceeded 1m mark(so far this year). But when the other halve is included the figure would be closer to double figures.


Similarily I could point out that we have 10 games that has exceed 300 000 on PTV.

[piesman2011]

NRL has about 40% of its viewers in regional areas, compared to the AFL with about 25%. So in my opinion comparing just metro is unfair (at least when comparing popularity) because only about 1 million viewers in Australia are now not counted (initially). Financially a metro viewer is worth more then a regional viewer. Apples V Apples there is not much difference in viewers in my opinion. So far all of the AFL games in the top 30 PTV programs have been simulcast on CH7 (Im pretty sure that is correct). It would be interesting to see how they would go if they wernt simulcast. AFL has to many PTV games on saturday (often 5) which makes it hard to get good ratings because of the overlap. Something else to take into consideration with the pay TV is that at the moment the number of AFL and NRL regular season games on pay TV are about the same. However AFL will soon overtake the NRL (all games live). This may start to even up the top 30 more. AFL also has less Pay TV penertration in its states. This may over the next 5 years begin to even up more as well.

[justanotherleaguefan]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/op ... 6337483468

Where AFL is about to be taught a football lesson by:
Gavin Atkins From: The Australian April 25, 2012 12:00AM

WHILE Essendon and Collingwood are clashing in the traditional, tribal, Anzac Day game at the MCG today, Sydney remains the real frontline in the battle of the football codes.
At the primary school where my wife teaches in Sydney's west, there stands a monument to the fact the AFL doesn't seem to have really thought things through.

Thanks to the cashed-up promoters of the code, Aussie rules goalposts were erected a few years ago on the long sides of the school oval. It was only after they went up that anyone seemed to realise they would impede kids on the running track and, worse, that goal kickers would be forced to retrieve their ball from the highway.

After some initial rumblings, the teachers and parents have decided not to worry about it. Despite marketing efforts that would make a Mormon life insurance salesman blush, the kids have ignored the new additions and are continuing their favoured pursuits of soccer and rugby league at the other ends.

...Some in the AFL have deluded themselves about the growing popularity of the game as a players' sport in Sydney by citing statistics of children taking part in school programs.

But despite the fact the AFL has 17 full-time and 45 part-time staff devoted to promoting the game in western Sydney, the number of juniors signing up to play AFL on the weekend in western Sydney is the real indicator of their progress.

In the age group being targeted by the AFL, the under-12s, the number of teams playing in western Sydney has declined from 24 last year to 22 this year, and there is still no under-11s competition.

Given the resources invested into it, and the hoopla surrounding the establishment of the Greater Western Sydney franchise, this should raise a red flag that something is not going the way they planned.

The warnings have always been there for those who cared to look. No 1 is that following an era of success for the city's existing side, the Swans, fewer Sydneysiders than ever are watching AFL on television.

No one doubts that the Swans have found a sustainable space for themselves in Sydney, with crowds and membership numbers that any rugby league club would love to have.

But the television ratings for AFL games in Sydney are such that their star player, Adam Goodes, has been known to praise the benefits of living in a city where he is rarely recognised.

Despite the addition of the GWS team to the competition, there has been no net gain to the number of Sydneysiders watching AFL on television, and games continue to be less popular than repeats of Antiques Roadshow and Iron Chef.

Those who do follow AFL in Sydney are most likely to be people from interstate, some are Swans diehards, and some maintain a first allegiance to another team.

However, Swans followers also include a somewhat genteel demographic from Sydney's wealthier suburbs, people who don't like the crassness and violence of the rugby codes.

Western Sydney is another story. This is the home of Sydney's working class, and their winter game of choice is rugby league. The interloping code is known by just about every schoolkid from kindergarten up as "gay FL", and any AFL players visiting a school in the region to promote the game need to prepare for the possibility of having a seven-year-old ask them inappropriate questions.
Right there is where you have your problem.

The culture of western Sydney is a masculine culture and kids who decide to play or follow Aussie rules football because rugby league is too rough are not the ones that their peers look up to. The brutal reality of the playground in western Sydney is that choosing to play or follow Aussie rules will always be considered a bit suspect.

For the working class of western Sydney, rugby league is not just an aesthetic preference, it is an intrinsic part of their identity. There is no chance that the locals will be impressed by the balletic skills of the new team, even if they eventually excel at them.

Rugby league supporters are generally not quite as demonstrative as Aussie rules supporters. They are less likely to attend games, buy memberships or sink into a depression when their team loses on the weekend. But this should not be confused with a lack of loyalty.

They also have an uncanny ability to identify hubris, and it will not help the GWS that the team has chosen to spend most of its time in a gated community within a drop punt of Sydney's inner-western cafe strip.

If there is anything that sums up the sheer waste and self-delusion of the GWS experiment, it has been the recruitment of star rugby league player Israel Folau, reportedly for about $1 million a year.

In a bid to gain greater stamina, Israel has deliberately lost his muscle tone, but unfortunately all of the stereotypes league followers have about AFL have been reinforced in the process.

What's worse is that he appears completely lost on the AFL field, but is nevertheless furiously applauded every time he so much as manages to run through a paper banner without tripping over.

AFL followers will tell you that this is a long-term project and that the GWS team will succeed in five years. What they overlook is that if the experience of the Swans is anything to go by, on-field success will not translate to the long-term popularity of the code in Sydney.

Another precedent is the city's professional basketball teams. Though the Sydney Kings experienced considerable success on the court, they were forced to fold in 2008, not long after a failed attempt to introduce a western Sydney team.

The problem is that old killer of many small businesses: simply that the AFL doesn't appear to understand its customers.

The AFL experiment in western Sydney is not going to work now and not in 10 years. The only question is how much damage will be done to the code before anyone is willing to admit to it.

LOL

[Xman]

The article above is written by a part time freelance writer and most of the quote, like the iron chef etc, are straight from league unlimited!

Classy stuf from the Australian, classy indeed.

[justanotherleaguefan]

It's all true though

[Xman]

It's all true though

I love the comment about under 11 teams. They play Auskick at these ages!

The ratings are reasonable for a secondary digital channel, especially when the games are on foxtel at the same time.
They also crap all over RL ratings in afl states.

[pussycat]

nope different poll one.

I agree with almost all that you say. I would just say that popularity and TV ratings are not the same thing. It is impossible to watch more then about 5 AFL games live every week so it is hard to judge its popularity in that sense. NRL is much more TV viewer friendly in that regards.

BTW NRL is a good game and I enjoy watching the odd game wish there was more if it live into Melbourne.

BINGO. This is the reason the cummulative numbers are BS. The NRL count their audiences 7-8 times a week. The AFL cannot do this.

As far as a national audience the AFL have exceeded 1million viewers excluding FTA regionals 10 times this year already! The NRL arent even close.

So all the way through this you've been singing the virtues of a 3 hour game, doesnt look like it worked out here

We can win the ratings in 60% of the country, for four hours with back-to-back games on friday night- Saturday Night - Sunday afternoon(maybe 3 even) its limitless .... limitless

[Xman]

No, ive been saying the 3 hour coverage has massive advantages in advertising space but they are not reflected in the bogus cummulative ratings.

As for the NRL winning the FN ratings, well the first game yes, the second game rates very low in both markets and drags the average down severely. The other issue is the FN always includes the broncos so all other ratings over the weekend in Brisbane are crap.

[pussycat]

Doesn't help either when they feed on each others ratings.




The network would obviously get more for an add in FN prime time slots. Though the second game is also a winner, less money for an add but more adds.

[Xman]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/op ... 6337483468

Where AFL is about to be taught a football lesson by:
Gavin Atkins From: The Australian April 25, 2012 12:00AM

WHILE Essendon and Collingwood are clashing in the traditional, tribal, Anzac Day game at the MCG today, Sydney remains the real frontline in the battle of the football codes.
At the primary school where my wife teaches in Sydney's west, there stands a monument to the fact the AFL doesn't seem to have really thought things through.

Thanks to the cashed-up promoters of the code, Aussie rules goalposts were erected a few years ago on the long sides of the school oval. It was only after they went up that anyone seemed to realise they would impede kids on the running track and, worse, that goal kickers would be forced to retrieve their ball from the highway.

After some initial rumblings, the teachers and parents have decided not to worry about it. Despite marketing efforts that would make a Mormon life insurance salesman blush, the kids have ignored the new additions and are continuing their favoured pursuits of soccer and rugby league at the other ends.

...Some in the AFL have deluded themselves about the growing popularity of the game as a players' sport in Sydney by citing statistics of children taking part in school programs.

But despite the fact the AFL has 17 full-time and 45 part-time staff devoted to promoting the game in western Sydney, the number of juniors signing up to play AFL on the weekend in western Sydney is the real indicator of their progress.

In the age group being targeted by the AFL, the under-12s, the number of teams playing in western Sydney has declined from 24 last year to 22 this year, and there is still no under-11s competition.

Given the resources invested into it, and the hoopla surrounding the establishment of the Greater Western Sydney franchise, this should raise a red flag that something is not going the way they planned.

The warnings have always been there for those who cared to look. No 1 is that following an era of success for the city's existing side, the Swans, fewer Sydneysiders than ever are watching AFL on television.

No one doubts that the Swans have found a sustainable space for themselves in Sydney, with crowds and membership numbers that any rugby league club would love to have.

But the television ratings for AFL games in Sydney are such that their star player, Adam Goodes, has been known to praise the benefits of living in a city where he is rarely recognised.

Despite the addition of the GWS team to the competition, there has been no net gain to the number of Sydneysiders watching AFL on television, and games continue to be less popular than repeats of Antiques Roadshow and Iron Chef.

Those who do follow AFL in Sydney are most likely to be people from interstate, some are Swans diehards, and some maintain a first allegiance to another team.

However, Swans followers also include a somewhat genteel demographic from Sydney's wealthier suburbs, people who don't like the crassness and violence of the rugby codes.

Western Sydney is another story. This is the home of Sydney's working class, and their winter game of choice is rugby league. The interloping code is known by just about every schoolkid from kindergarten up as "gay FL", and any AFL players visiting a school in the region to promote the game need to prepare for the possibility of having a seven-year-old ask them inappropriate questions.
Right there is where you have your problem.

The culture of western Sydney is a masculine culture and kids who decide to play or follow Aussie rules football because rugby league is too rough are not the ones that their peers look up to. The brutal reality of the playground in western Sydney is that choosing to play or follow Aussie rules will always be considered a bit suspect.

For the working class of western Sydney, rugby league is not just an aesthetic preference, it is an intrinsic part of their identity. There is no chance that the locals will be impressed by the balletic skills of the new team, even if they eventually excel at them.

Rugby league supporters are generally not quite as demonstrative as Aussie rules supporters. They are less likely to attend games, buy memberships or sink into a depression when their team loses on the weekend. But this should not be confused with a lack of loyalty.

They also have an uncanny ability to identify hubris, and it will not help the GWS that the team has chosen to spend most of its time in a gated community within a drop punt of Sydney's inner-western cafe strip.

If there is anything that sums up the sheer waste and self-delusion of the GWS experiment, it has been the recruitment of star rugby league player Israel Folau, reportedly for about $1 million a year.

In a bid to gain greater stamina, Israel has deliberately lost his muscle tone, but unfortunately all of the stereotypes league followers have about AFL have been reinforced in the process.

What's worse is that he appears completely lost on the AFL field, but is nevertheless furiously applauded every time he so much as manages to run through a paper banner without tripping over.

AFL followers will tell you that this is a long-term project and that the GWS team will succeed in five years. What they overlook is that if the experience of the Swans is anything to go by, on-field success will not translate to the long-term popularity of the code in Sydney.

Another precedent is the city's professional basketball teams. Though the Sydney Kings experienced considerable success on the court, they were forced to fold in 2008, not long after a failed attempt to introduce a western Sydney team.

The problem is that old killer of many small businesses: simply that the AFL doesn't appear to understand its customers.

The AFL experiment in western Sydney is not going to work now and not in 10 years. The only question is how much damage will be done to the code before anyone is willing to admit to it.

LOL

Room for all sports and codes in Sydney's west

by: Christine Cawsey
From: The Australian
April 28, 2012 12:00AM

IN an article on the Commentary page of The Australian on Wednesday ("Where AFL is about to be taught a football lesson"), author Gavin Atkins claims that every kid in western Sydney refers to Australian Football as "GayFL".



As the principal of Rooty Hill High School and a long-term resident of western Sydney, that's news to me. It's simply not true and if I ever heard a student refer to it as such I'd be horrified.


That's not the only prejudice that Atkins expresses in his article. He also equates the AFL's marketing push to that of a "Mormon life insurance salesman". It's hard to know who this is meant to demean more: Mormons or people in Western Sydney generally.


But then Atkins goes on to stereotype the west of Sydney even more. Unlike those "genteel" types from Sydney's wealthier suburbs, "working class" people in the west love the "violence" of NRL. This, he says, is their game.


As somebody who has spent my life in the west, I can say that people in my local community follow and play a number of different sports. Rugby league is the dominant football code and along with cricket, netball, soccer and Olympic sports such as cycling and walking, the western suburbs has produced many champions. Hopefully Israel Folau, the AFL player, will be another.


There is a growing interest in Australian football and an appreciation for its efforts to engage with the community through schools. The AFL Indigenous Academies in Western Sydney schools are a good example.


An increasing number of children are also being introduced to the game through Auskick - 24,000 across Sydney to be precise. Some of them are young girls - a group Atkins seems to ignore.


Strangely enough, the "masculine" culture of western Sydney, as Atkins describes it, seems to be coping. Even embracing it. Maybe western Sydney isn't the simplistic, negative cartoon caricature so loved by the Atkins of this world.


Let's deal with a few more facts. First, there are now 56,000 people playing AFL in Sydney. This is a 41 per cent increase on five years ago - not bad for a game that really only arrived in the city 30 years ago.


Second, the number of people watching the game on television in Sydney is actually increasing. So far this year the average audience in Sydney watching AFL on free-to-air television is up 5 per cent. And 38,000 people attended the first ever Sydney AFL derby.


Third, it's true that the vast majority of Greater Western Sydney players live at Breakfast Point on the Parramatta River (to the west of Sydney). If I were the mum of one of the young players I would be glad the new club was looking for a place they could live safely together. They also train at Blacktown and two weeks ago played the first ever match for premiership points there.


They also spend hundreds of hours each year moving around western Sydney as part of the club's community programs, including football clinics, school and hospital visits and a range of other health and education programs the club is involved in.


The AFL has always said that establishing a new team in Greater Western Sydney would be a big challenge. Success won't come quickly on or off the field. But to say there is "no chance" the people of Western Sydney will take to the game is at best a premature judgment and at worst downright ridiculous.


So far the club has signed up more than 8500 members, the majority of them from Western Sydney. This figure is expected to grow closer to 10,000 and compares well with any NRL team in Western Sydney, especially for a first-year club.


The AFL has never said it is in a war with the NRL and knows that many club members such as myself will still support an NRL club as well.
How wonderful to be able to say that "too much sport is never enough" and have that be true.


It will take hard work, patience and an understanding of our audience. Unlike Atkins, we won't engage in stereotypes or assume we know what is best for them. The people in Western Sydney are too intelligent for that.


Christine Cawsey is principal of the Rooty Hill High School, president of the NSW Secondary Principals Council and a board member of GWS. She received an Order of Australia in the Australian Day honours for her services to education in Sydney's west

[pussycat]

Be prepared to be horrified Christine

[TLPG]

You're an ignorant pissant, Pussycat. That came from someone who LIVES in Western Sydney. Are you calling her a liar?

Needed to be said.