Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

[AFLcrap1]

The fumble zealots remind me of a kid who got a bag of lollies then start having a major tantrum when another lid is going to get some lollies too .

Not one of them had a problem when the AFL grounds in Syd were getting hundreds of millions spent on them .

[NlolRL]

The fumble zealots remind me of a kid who got a bag of lollies then start having a major tantrum when another lid is going to get some lollies too .

Not one of them had a problem when the AFL grounds in Syd were getting hundreds of millions spent on them .

if it were only AFL fans objecting youd have a point, but it's not

[Terry]

The fumble zealots remind me of a kid who got a bag of lollies then start having a major tantrum when another lid is going to get some lollies too .

Not one of them had a problem when the AFL grounds in Syd were getting hundreds of millions spent on them .

if it were only AFL fans objecting youd have a point, but it's not

No, it's also lefties, greenies and comic strip activists. These people don't follow any sport and won't vote for Gladys no matter what happens with the stadiums. The circus will move on. The stadium's will be built.

[leeroy*NRL*]

The fumble zealots remind me of a kid who got a bag of lollies then start having a major tantrum when another lid is going to get some lollies too .

Not one of them had a problem when the AFL grounds in Syd were getting hundreds of millions spent on them .

if it were only AFL fans objecting youd have a point, but it's not

No, it's also lefties, greenies and comic strip activists. These people don't follow any sport and won't vote for Gladys no matter what happens with the stadiums. The circus will move on. The stadium's will be built.

too dam bloody true!!!

there they same nut jobs that vote for clover moore

or protest against Infrastructure in WEST CONNECTS>>

THIS NSW GOVERNMENT IS DOING GREAT THINGS!!

[NlolRL]

The fumble zealots remind me of a kid who got a bag of lollies then start having a major tantrum when another lid is going to get some lollies too .

Not one of them had a problem when the AFL grounds in Syd were getting hundreds of millions spent on them .

if it were only AFL fans objecting youd have a point, but it's not

No, it's also lefties, greenies and comic strip activists. These people don't follow any sport and won't vote for Gladys no matter what happens with the stadiums. The circus will move on. The stadium's will be built.

But they do pay tax and are entitled to express concerns about unnecessary spending

[leeroy*NRL*]

if it were only AFL fans objecting youd have a point, but it's not

No, it's also lefties, greenies and comic strip activists. These people don't follow any sport and won't vote for Gladys no matter what happens with the stadiums. The circus will move on. The stadium's will be built.

But they do pay tax and are entitled to express concerns about unnecessary spending

lol unnecessary spending>>

u do realize in reality that Spotless stadium didn't need an upgrade>>
it pretty much had the same capacity before it had millions spent on it>>

Capacity before and after was around the 22k mark.

not all stadiums are upgraded for capacity>>

but its ok>> cause the AFL play there so it got the millions and millions spent on it>

the Big Bash was played at ANZ stadium even when the upgrade was done.

[Terry]

if it were only AFL fans objecting youd have a point, but it's not

No, it's also lefties, greenies and comic strip activists. These people don't follow any sport and won't vote for Gladys no matter what happens with the stadiums. The circus will move on. The stadium's will be built.

But they do pay tax and are entitled to express concerns about unnecessary spending

Of course. They can say what ever they want but at the end of the day its only their opinion that it's unnecessary spending. For every article against the stadiums I have seen one for it. For every economist against I have seen one for.

The difference is the lefty, greenie, activist's do this for a living and know how to make noise and scream emotive headlines. This issue hasn't got enough legs. Gladys won't lose any votes she wouldn't anyway. By the time of the election it will be a minor irritation at best.

[NRL&NFLweLaughATafl]

if it were only AFL fans objecting youd have a point, but it's not

No, it's also lefties, greenies and comic strip activists. These people don't follow any sport and won't vote for Gladys no matter what happens with the stadiums. The circus will move on. The stadium's will be built.

too dam bloody true!!!

there they same nut jobs that vote for clover moore

or protest against Infrastructure in WEST CONNECTS>>

THIS NSW GOVERNMENT IS DOING GREAT THINGS!!

So true, the greens lefty loser logic. Have mass immigration and open borders. Then whine when they have to build wider roads and cut down trees to keep up with infrastructure.
One reason Labor should stay away from these fools like the plague.

[NRL&NFLweLaughATafl]

No, it's also lefties, greenies and comic strip activists. These people don't follow any sport and won't vote for Gladys no matter what happens with the stadiums. The circus will move on. The stadium's will be built.

But they do pay tax and are entitled to express concerns about unnecessary spending

Of course. They can say what ever they want but at the end of the day its only their opinion that it's unnecessary spending. For every article against the stadiums I have seen one for it. For every economist against I have seen one for.

The difference is the lefty, greenie, activist's do this for a living and know how to make noise and scream emotive headlines. This issue hasn't got enough legs. Gladys won't lose any votes she wouldn't anyway. By the time of the election it will be a minor irritation at best.

They should send all the lefties to Melbourne, their ideals and beliefs are much more suited to the culture there.

[Beaussie]

Beatup: this is what you said when the AFL put in their whiny bitch submission to keep ANZ oval -

'Really starting to get tired of the whining from the NRL about ANZ Stadium.

Why shouldn't Sydney's biggest stadium remain capable of hosting all sports?'

You had no problem spending the money on it if fumblehouse had their stinking nose in the public trough. Now that it is going to be rectangular only you are in bed (aarrrrggghhh!!!!) with Peter (look at me, look at me) Fitzsimons.

Your credibily is shot my friend. Your raging bias has once again ruled you out of sensible debate. Please retire from the argument lest you bring yourself into further disrepute.

Please don’t misrepresent me.

With all the problems we have in Sydney with homelessness, roads, congestion, more tolls, public transport problems, kids in demountables at school, growing hospital waiting lists etc, etc, I as a NSW taxpayer... like clearly many others, object to 3 total rebuilds of stadiums in Sydney with a starting price tag of $2.5 - $3 billion.

I was not opposed to a refurbished ANZ stadium that could provide rectangular and oval shaped seating options along with a roof. All codes would benefit with a price tag of just $350 million (see video).



None of the pro bulldoze, rebuild cheer squad have said why the above option is not worthy. It appears more a case of those in the cheer squad are championing for nothing more than ensuring they get their shiny new stadiums paid for by taxpayers with the added bonus that cricket and in particular the AFL are locked out of Sydney’s largest and premier stadium. Seems at odds with arguments put forward about the need to capable of hosting all kinds of events I would have thought.

As for Allianz Stadium... if that needs a total bulldoze, rebuild after just 30 years of operation, what about funding in the same sense for the much older and more popular SCG with its very outdated grandstands and facilities?

[Laniger]

Hate to be impertinent but these disputes have been
settled in the land of the Piping Shrike.... HAVE ONLY ONE CODE.

[Terry]

Beatup: this is what you said when the AFL put in their whiny bitch submission to keep ANZ oval -

'Really starting to get tired of the whining from the NRL about ANZ Stadium.

Why shouldn't Sydney's biggest stadium remain capable of hosting all sports?'

You had no problem spending the money on it if fumblehouse had their stinking nose in the public trough. Now that it is going to be rectangular only you are in bed (aarrrrggghhh!!!!) with Peter (look at me, look at me) Fitzsimons.

Your credibily is shot my friend. Your raging bias has once again ruled you out of sensible debate. Please retire from the argument lest you bring yourself into further disrepute.

Please don’t misrepresent me.

With all the problems we have in Sydney with homelessness, roads, congestion, more tolls, public transport problems, kids in demountables at school, growing hospital waiting lists etc, etc, I as a NSW taxpayer... like clearly many others, object to 3 total rebuilds of stadiums in Sydney with a starting price tag of $2.5 - $3 billion.

I was not opposed to a refurbished ANZ stadium that could provide rectangular and oval shaped seating options along with a roof. All codes would benefit with a price tag of just $350 million (see video).



None of the pro bulldoze, rebuild cheer squad have said why the above option is not worthy. It appears more a case of those in the cheer squad are championing for nothing more than ensuring they get their shiny new stadiums paid for by taxpayers with the added bonus that cricket and in particular the AFL are locked out of Sydney’s largest and premier stadium. Seems at odds with arguments put forward about the need to capable of hosting all kinds of events I would have thought.

As for Allianz Stadium... if that needs a total bulldoze, rebuild after just 30 years of operation, what about funding in the same sense for the much older and more popular SCG with its very outdated grandstands and facilities?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!! What about the kids???????? Where were you when the new Perth stadium was proposed pal??????????? Have they eradicated homlessness and have perfect roads, schools and hospitals over there??? Lololololololololol. It's utopia in the west!!!!! What a hypocrite!!!!!!

WA gov't has a deficit of 33 billion for their tiny population but spend 1.6 B on a new stadium. NSW is debt free, infact have a 3B surplus but what about he kids? What about the schools? Lololololololololololol.

You show your true colours when you say,"the added bonus that cricket and in particular the AFL are locked out of Sydney". Your raging bias comes to the fore again. You are hopelessly flawed my friend.

The tide has turned in this debate. The screeching, whining populists have had their day in the sun. Fitzsimons is off to holiday in that 3rd world enclave Newport Beach in the family holiday home!!!!!! What about homelessness Fitz?? What about the kids Fitz???? Lololololololololol

Move on pal. You're embarrassing yourself!!

[Beaussie]

Beatup: this is what you said when the AFL put in their whiny bitch submission to keep ANZ oval -

'Really starting to get tired of the whining from the NRL about ANZ Stadium.

Why shouldn't Sydney's biggest stadium remain capable of hosting all sports?'

You had no problem spending the money on it if fumblehouse had their stinking nose in the public trough. Now that it is going to be rectangular only you are in bed (aarrrrggghhh!!!!) with Peter (look at me, look at me) Fitzsimons.

Your credibily is shot my friend. Your raging bias has once again ruled you out of sensible debate. Please retire from the argument lest you bring yourself into further disrepute.

Please don’t misrepresent me.

With all the problems we have in Sydney with homelessness, roads, congestion, more tolls, public transport problems, kids in demountables at school, growing hospital waiting lists etc, etc, I as a NSW taxpayer... like clearly many others, object to 3 total rebuilds of stadiums in Sydney with a starting price tag of $2.5 - $3 billion.

I was not opposed to a refurbished ANZ stadium that could provide rectangular and oval shaped seating options along with a roof. All codes would benefit with a price tag of just $350 million (see video).



None of the pro bulldoze, rebuild cheer squad have said why the above option is not worthy. It appears more a case of those in the cheer squad are championing for nothing more than ensuring they get their shiny new stadiums paid for by taxpayers with the added bonus that cricket and in particular the AFL are locked out of Sydney’s largest and premier stadium. Seems at odds with arguments put forward about the need to capable of hosting all kinds of events I would have thought.

As for Allianz Stadium... if that needs a total bulldoze, rebuild after just 30 years of operation, what about funding in the same sense for the much older and more popular SCG with its very outdated grandstands and facilities?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!! What about the kids???????? Where were you when the new Perth stadium was proposed pal??????????? Have they eradicated homlessness and have perfect roads, schools and hospitals over there??? Lololololololololol. It's utopia in the west!!!!! What a hypocrite!!!!!!

WA gov't has a deficit of 33 billion for their tiny population but spend 1.6 B on a new stadium. NSW is debt free, infact have a 3B surplus but what about he kids? What about the schools? Lololololololololololol.

You show your true colours when you say,"the added bonus that cricket and in particular the AFL are locked out of Sydney". Your raging bias comes to the fore again. You are hopelessly flawed my friend.

The tide has turned in this debate. The screeching, whining populists have had their day in the sun. Fitzsimons is off to holiday in that 3rd world enclave Newport Beach in the family holiday home!!!!!! What about homelessness Fitz?? What about the kids Fitz???? Lololololololololol

Move on pal. You're embarrassing yourself!!

Should’ve known not expect a reasoned response from you Terry. The so called voice of reason around here. Pfft... Give us a break. As usual you deflect and avoid the subject matter... this time with some rant and comparisons to WA. I ain’t a WA taxpayer so why would I give a hoot what they do over there?

Again why can’t NSW have the more affordable refurbishment option for ANZ and leave it at that. Savings used for other community priorities and necessities? Huh?

[Terry]

Please don’t misrepresent me.

With all the problems we have in Sydney with homelessness, roads, congestion, more tolls, public transport problems, kids in demountables at school, growing hospital waiting lists etc, etc, I as a NSW taxpayer... like clearly many others, object to 3 total rebuilds of stadiums in Sydney with a starting price tag of $2.5 - $3 billion.

I was not opposed to a refurbished ANZ stadium that could provide rectangular and oval shaped seating options along with a roof. All codes would benefit with a price tag of just $350 million (see video).



None of the pro bulldoze, rebuild cheer squad have said why the above option is not worthy. It appears more a case of those in the cheer squad are championing for nothing more than ensuring they get their shiny new stadiums paid for by taxpayers with the added bonus that cricket and in particular the AFL are locked out of Sydney’s largest and premier stadium. Seems at odds with arguments put forward about the need to capable of hosting all kinds of events I would have thought.

As for Allianz Stadium... if that needs a total bulldoze, rebuild after just 30 years of operation, what about funding in the same sense for the much older and more popular SCG with its very outdated grandstands and facilities?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!! What about the kids???????? Where were you when the new Perth stadium was proposed pal??????????? Have they eradicated homlessness and have perfect roads, schools and hospitals over there??? Lololololololololol. It's utopia in the west!!!!! What a hypocrite!!!!!!

WA gov't has a deficit of 33 billion for their tiny population but spend 1.6 B on a new stadium. NSW is debt free, infact have a 3B surplus but what about he kids? What about the schools? Lololololololololololol.

You show your true colours when you say,"the added bonus that cricket and in particular the AFL are locked out of Sydney". Your raging bias comes to the fore again. You are hopelessly flawed my friend.

The tide has turned in this debate. The screeching, whining populists have had their day in the sun. Fitzsimons is off to holiday in that 3rd world enclave Newport Beach in the family holiday home!!!!!! What about homelessness Fitz?? What about the kids Fitz???? Lololololololololol

Move on pal. You're embarrassing yourself!!

Should’ve known not expect a reasoned response from you Terry. The so called voice of reason around here. Pfft... Give us a break. As usual you deflect and avoid the subject matter... this time with some rant and comparisons to WA. I ain’t a WA taxpayer so why would I give a hoot what they do over there?

Again why can’t NSW have the more affordable refurbishment option for ANZ and leave it at that. Savings used for other community priorities and necessities? Huh?

Oh my GOD!!!!! You don't care about the kids in WA??? This is a sad indictment on your moral compass. Luckily for the great people of NSW we have Glad in the big seat. She has not just balanced the books she has put 3B+ in the bank. And she can chew gum and walk at the same time - something way beyond your capabilities my friend lololololololol.

She will look after the kiddies, get rid of the demountables, fix up the hospital waiting times AND give RUGBY LEAGUE 3 brand new stadiums. OUCCCHHHHH!!! Sorry pal, that must hurt lolololololololoololol.

Here is an article in todays SMH. The tide has turned my friend. You have fought the good fight for your chosen prejudice - time to put down your petard and slip back into the crowd lolololololololololol. Or maybe join Fitz on the slums of Newport Beach handing out food to the kiddies and $50 notes to their poor wretched mummies lololololololol.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/darren-kane ... 057fi.html

[Beaussie]

Yep, still avoiding the question I posed about a much cheaper refurbished ANZ Stadium with rectangular and oval shaped options along with a roof. Would rather waste hard earned taxpayer $$$ on bulldoze, rebuild options that even you thought earlier in this thread with regards to Allianz Stadium was ridiculous.

Meanwhile, whilst you may like to think this issue will just go away, the following is from the very same SMH today to counter your quoted article.

Why politicians buy us presents we don’t need
Richard Denniss

Like kids before Christmas, many politicians love to throw away old toys to make room for some new ones. Just as most kids prefer a shiny new bike to getting their old one repaired, many politicians prefer to knock down the status quo than carefully repair or improve what already exists. Take the NSW Premier, for example.

Gladys Berejiklian proposes to knock down two perfectly functional football stadiums and replace them with – wait for it – two new ones. Apparently, all that demolition and construction will create jobs in demolition and construction. And, apparently, the reason people don't attend football matches in Sydney is because of the stadiums, not the football. NSW taxpayers are about to spend $2 billion testing that hypothesis. But if the government is right, it's the football codes, not the taxpayers, that will pick up most of the extra revenue.

In my book, Curing Affluenza: how to buy less stuff and save the world, I argue there is a big difference between consumerism and materialism. Consumerism is the love of buying things whereas materialism is the love of the things themselves. While shop owners might get rich selling us new things all the time, we can't get rich if we spend a fortune on new things to replace perfectly functional things.

Put simply, if we want our nation to prosper, if we want to pursue efficiency or if we want to minimise the harm we do to the natural environment, then we need to love, repair and maintain our things. We need to avoid waste and invest our time, money and resources in things that will deliver us lasting benefits, not fleeting pleasure.

But as the NSW government shows, it's not just individuals who can fall into the thrall of consumerism. Like bored shoppers, government ministers can fall into its thrall, too, and believe that shiny new things are the secret to economic or political success.

While the decision to buy some new stadiums has backfired badly, you can see how the Berejiklian government fell into the trap. Everyone knows you get more news coverage announcing a brand new stadium than announcing brand new seats for an old stadium. Everyone knows that the sporting codes, their sponsors and the other hangers-on will love you more for shiny new corporate boxes than for new carpet in the old ones. And we can only imagine the sales pitch from the stadium salespeople (otherwise known as property developers): "C'mon, minister, you can't put a plaque on a renovation ... No one remembers the guy who got the repainting done ... You deserve a legacy."

The problem of desiring the new rather than maintaining the old isn't confined to building new stadiums. Modern ministers seem to love rebranding and rebadging as much as they love restructuring and reforming. But as anyone who has ever worked in a large organisation (public or private) knows, such changes are often as pointless and symbolic as the "exciting" new bumper bars and blinker casings that constitute the release of a "new" model of car.

Rather than ensure that their departments operate effectively, the modern minister loves to introduce "big changes" designed to show everyone, or maybe just themselves, how important their job is.

Take Barnaby Joyce, for example. While it was widely reported that he ignored departmental advice against spending tens of millions of other people's dollars to move the Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority from Canberra to Armidale (in his electorate), what is much less discussed is that such opposition is central to his political strategy. What's the point of being a minister if all you do is take advice? How can you brag to your electorate about how powerful you are if you only make sensible decisions?

Joyce isn't alone. Matt Canavan was far keener to give $1 billion of other people's money to Adani than north Queenslanders were, and I'm yet to meet an Australian who is excited about receiving the $50 billion worth of joint strike fighters that successive defence ministers have been determined to give us.

At Christmas time, most of us take for granted that we will receive gifts we don't want or need. But it doesn't need to be this way.

The job of our elected representatives is not to give us "surprise" presents that we don't want, nor to use our money to make themselves feel good or look powerful. Their job, be they backbenchers or ministers, is to consult those they serve, identify options and opportunities, and seek the public's endorsement for their proposed action.

While it is often said that, in the age of Twitter, it is simply impossible for governments to do something as old-fashioned as carefully developing policy, consulting widely and communicating the benefits of change effectively, such fatalism about the role of government is entirely wrong.

The fact that successive federal governments have struggled, or failed outright, to drive major reforms is not evidence that modern communication technology makes governing impossible. It is evidence that the last few federal governments found it impossible. Plenty of other countries around the world have managed stable government and major policy change – despite the existence of Twitter.

Closer to home, the ACT Labor/Green minority government has delivered a 100 per cent renewable energy target, land tax reform and massive investment in light rail. The Liberal opposition criticised each of those changes, which all became controversial election issues. But the electorate endorsed all of them and, while some have been a decade in the making, all are now being implemented.

Building new things and introducing new policies is an important part of governing, but so, too, is maintaining the things we already have and making sure they work well. While it might be more fun to launch a new policy or use a silver shovel to turn the first sod on a big project, what we really need in Australia is fewer big ideas and big investments, and a new conversation about what we really want our nation to have more of and what we are willing to go without.

It's the shape of our economy that affects our lives most, not the size of the economy. Rapid growth in automated coal mining will increase GDP, but it will not increase employment nearly as fast as rapid growth in labour-intensive sectors of our economy. Just as it is not the price of the stuff we get for Christmas that makes us happy, but the thoughtfulness of it, it is not the amount of money our politicians spend on new infrastructure that improves our lives, it is whether they invest in the things we really need.

Richard Denniss is The Australia Institute's chief economist.

Twitter: @RDNS_TAI

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/why-polit ... 05brd.html