Climate Change - Carbon Tax > ETS or Direct Action?

[Foolproof]

before you convince me on climate change,
explain to me why the ozone layer hasn't burnt through yet, like it was going to do in the 90s & what ever happened to this thing called the greenhouse effect?. if the whole theory of climate change was real and countries were going to be drowned under by this rising water levels, wouldn't they at least try and change their main sources of power, dirty coal & oil to preserve life

The hole in the ozone layer was actually caused by chlorofluorocarbons - not global warming or climate change. When we started using hydrocarbons instead, the hole in ozone layer stopped growing. Last I heard it was actually closing.

What you are labelling climate change there is actually global warning - which as you rightly say doesn't exist. Climate change is weather extremes, which also includes extreme cold (the US has recently sat through the coldest snap on record) and also extremes in storms and tornados. The number of storms worldwide is at record levels, and their ferocity is increasing.

The reason why governments maintain coal and oil is because it's cheap. Green energy is more expensive to create and maintain so to keep the prices at the same levels it has to be subsidised, and by quite a lot.

we have always had extreme weather patterns, its only due to improved technology & social media connecting everyone around the world is making people more aware of them.

on green energy, wind and solar forms energy are the biggest con of the century

We have never had the extreme weather patterns that we are experiencing now. Weather bureaus worldwide confirm this. That has nothing to do with technology or social media.

Solar panels are working very well. Wind is still in development and has shown some promise.

[AFLsforPussies]

Foolproof man made climate change is still a huge myth and a costly waste of money with the carbon tax etc.

Australia needs a party like UKIP back home.
They stand for a ban on greeny taxes, and reduced immigration as well as strong supporters of the Union.

[Foolproof]

Try telling that to insurers. They know they have to update their policy structure for all these extreme weather events.

UKIP? The Tea Party of Britain? No thanks.

[AFLsforPussies]

Try telling that to insurers. They know they have to update their policy structure for all these extreme weather events.

UKIP? The Tea Party of Britain? No thanks.

Man there have been extreme weather events since time began. Is nothing new. Your just brainwashed by greeny propaganda. They are all just a bunch of idealists with no clue. What ever happened to the ocean rising 2 metres??? Is all such crap lol

UKIP is growing momentum in the UK, people are fed up the greeny ideals. Is like the tradiotional labor party.

[Foolproof]

There have not been any weather events as extreme as the ones we have been having. The ocean rising was solely related to the disproven theory of global warming so that is irrelevant.

You don't understand what UKIP is. They are racist. They are right wing extremists. The unions - traditional labor - are lefties.

[AFLsforPussies]

There have not been any weather events as extreme as the ones we have been having. The ocean rising was solely related to the disproven theory of global warming so that is irrelevant.

You don't understand what UKIP is. They are racist. They are right wing extremists. The unions - traditional labor - are lefties.

UKIP are all about putting working British people before immigrants from third world countries that come to the UK and go straight on welfare. There is nothing racist about that.

They are all for free health care for British citizens and against inheritance taxes.

They also want to reduce taxes on the minimum wage, which is far from what a right winged party would do.

[Foolproof]

UKIP "recognises the benefits of limited, controlled immigration". This is right wing politics. A union party would want the gates opened up more. UKIP "will repeal the Human Rights Act" and remove Britain from both the European Convention on Refugees and the European Convention on Human Rights. This is also right wing politics. UKIP "opposes legislation allowing same-sex marriage". Definitely right wing.

What about "UKIP favours a flat tax - a single combined rate of income tax and national insurance paid by all workers". That favours high income earners and is anti union and then some!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-22396690

And here's the racism; UKIP "recognises and values an overarching, unifying British culture, which is open and inclusive to anyone who wishes to identify with Britain and British values, regardless of their ethnic or religious background".
http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people ... ource=ukip
This is anti multi culture and therefore racist, pressing the same line of assimilation as One Nation favours here in Australia.

Here is an example; "UKIP MEP Nikki Sinclaire was expelled from UKIP after resigning from the EFD grouping, citing her displeasure at what she perceived to be racist and extremist parties that belong to the EFD Group."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/8550698.stm

Is that enough to demonstrate that your opinion is not correct?

[AFLsforPussies]

UKIP "recognises the benefits of limited, controlled immigration". This is right wing politics. A union party would want the gates opened up more. UKIP "will repeal the Human Rights Act" and remove Britain from both the European Convention on Refugees and the European Convention on Human Rights. This is also right wing politics. UKIP "opposes legislation allowing same-sex marriage". Definitely right wing.

What about "UKIP favours a flat tax - a single combined rate of income tax and national insurance paid by all workers". That favours high income earners and is anti union and then some!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-22396690

And here's the racism; UKIP "recognises and values an overarching, unifying British culture, which is open and inclusive to anyone who wishes to identify with Britain and British values, regardless of their ethnic or religious background".
http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people ... ource=ukip
This is anti multi culture and therefore racist, pressing the same line of assimilation as One Nation favours here in Australia.

Here is an example; "UKIP MEP Nikki Sinclaire was expelled from UKIP after resigning from the EFD grouping, citing her displeasure at what she perceived to be racist and extremist parties that belong to the EFD Group."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/8550698.stm

Is that enough to demonstrate that your opinion is not correct?

I agree with all those policies. Is not racist saying no to illegal refugees.
What Scott Morrison did here to stop refugees bleeding this country with illegal entry was a brilliant policy.
I would have gotten even tougher and rounded up all the rest that got in through Labor and sent them home too.
Come here the right way or piss off. Nothing racist about that.
I also agree that people who come to the UK should have to adopt British values. That is not racist, if you come to a country to live... you have to adopt the rules of that country!!! Imagine how shit Australia would be if it did not have Western values.

All greeny extremists do is put in taxes like the carbon tax that sent businesses under, rack up huge foreign debts. Let every illegal boat person into a nation at the expense of everyone else.

Lefty Greenies are the most usless bunch of gits ever to walk the planet.

SO JUST SO YOU KNOW, I DON'T SEE ANY OF THOSE POLICIES AS EVEN SLIGHTLY RACIST.

[Foolproof]

I do see them as racist, for one reason above all else. The lack of tolerance for another race's culture.

In order to have world peace, cultures must merge. Some western values are actually bad values. Greed for one. The flat tax policy will encourage greed and punish the poor, and create distinct classes that were last that far apart in the dark ages. Acceptance of these policies is acceptance of a continuation of intolerance and war. Assimilation by force is a human rights abuse. The multi culture approach is far better in the long term aiming at peaceful co-existence. There are many non western values that are perfectly fine. Not all of course, but many.

For the record, illegal immigration is not all about the boats. The majority of illegals come by plane. Morrison did nothing about them.

[AFLsforPussies]

So flooding successful Western nations with migrants from 3rd world nations is the answer is it???

You have no idea how parts of London have become because of mass immigration from these places. The Suburbs are no go zones sometimes for even the police. Are riddled with crime, vandalism, drugs and filth. They turn it like their home country.

There is nothing racist about preserving your culture. Why do you think Australia has become more patriotic than ever??

People realise how a lot of immigrants are trying to change our British culture and you Aussies are saying fuck you if you want to change this nation. This is Australia, Britain is our heritage and if you want to come here and not love our flag and culture you can shove your ass home.

Look how much more patriotic you Aussies are becoming every year. This is not a coincidence. It is Australians being proud of their heritage and culture and wanting to preserve it.

All you greenies with your stupid ideologies should go and move to some of these third world countries if you love that culture so much. Your all a bunch of gutless cowards. Anti American when they saved Australias arse in WW2 from the Japs. All against the U.S when they built a military base up in Darwin.

GREENY POLICIES
*DISARM AUSTRALIA
*LET 100'S OF MILLIONS INTO AUSTRALIA FROM 3RD WORLD COUNTRIES WITH AN OPEN DOOR POLICY.
*BAN COAL MINING SENDING AUSTRALIA BROKE AND MAKING POWER UNAFFORDABLE.

STUPID POLICIES BY BRAIN DEAD PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER WORKED A HARD DAY IN THEIR LIFE.

And as for illegals by plane, at least we know who they are.. Better than them throwing their passport overboard and lieing that they are being persecuted.

[Foolproof]

The racism lies in eliminating the incoming culture. The two can co-exist.

Refugee law - to which we are signed and so to is Great Britain - demands that if going home means death they have to take them in. This applies to the first country the refugees arrive at, but they don't want to stay in that first country. For instance, they don't want to stay in Greece or Turkey and honestly I don't blame them. Especially Greece. Every human being is entitled to live free of torture, death and so on. Do you support this? If so, then you should be welcoming the refugees. Yes, they should obey our laws, but that doesn't mean we should treat their culture as though it's not welcome. Education is better than shutting the door in their face, because they'll bash it down.

And you don't think the refugees that come by plane don't throw away their passports en route? Or dispose of them once they arrive on a tourist visa? We don't know who they are.

I am not a greenie. I support the US being here. I think the nonsense in the Pacific over whales has to stop. We should be taking Japan on in the courts and leaving the sea battles alone. And you want to talk about heritage? Multiculture works. Look at Chinatown in Sydney and Melbourne. Look at the Italian and Greek contribution to our dietary habits. We embraced Wogs out of Work and Acropolis Now. Majak Daw is a testament to education working (in spite of the odd issue). I could go on. Shutting off other cultures is not on.

England has been having crime problems for decades. It started with the era of punk in the 1970's, well before the refugees arrived. Soccer hooliganism was rife in the early 80's leading to the fencing before the incidents that forced the removal of the fences. Don't blame refugees for something that was going on for a lot longer. Remember Billy Joel; We didn't start the fire. It was always burning since the world's been turning.......

[AFLsforPussies]

Yeah I just think political correctness has gone way too far in Australia. Everything and everyone gets called racist at the smallest things.

*If you say your white and proud your a racist, but if you say your black and proud there is no problem.

*If there is a tv show with a cast that is all white, suddenly they are called racist. SBS has only ethnic people. Why are'nt they called racist?

I have no problem with people of other cultures that respect the country, I played Rugby League here with Arabs, Islanders, Latinos etc... What I do have a problem with is people comming here and trying to change Australia. Complaining that Ch 9 news is too white, saying you can't celebrate Christmas because it offends other religions.
Saying it is racist to wear the Australian flag on your shoulders. Fark that mate. They came here, they have no right to say that Australians can't be proud of their nation. If a tv show wants to be all white or all black there should not be an issue.

As for multiculturalism, it works with certain cultures better than others. You just have to look at how many crimes were committed by these refugees they let in Australia. Loads have been done for sexual assaults and rape. Even peadophilia, is that the kind of people Australia want in their nation???. Abbott winning the election pretty much answered that question.

As from crime in the UK, it has always been around... but is far worse now. Since mass immigration from 3rd world countries without proper checks. Crime has risen, sexual diseases have risen, quality of life has gone down in general. A lot of people in these nations have no respect for the UK. Is all about what they can gain from the UK and not what they are willing to contribute back. People are fed up there. Which is why partys like UKIP are gaining momentum.

[Foolproof]

Refugees commit crimes because they don't know the law. They aren't immigrants who have to do the research. It's why being a refugee is popular over proper immigration. Part of the problem is this isn't being nipped in the bud from the get go. First offence by a refugee must incorporate an education program and this isn't happening. So the blame switches from the refugee to the system. Paedophilia is not an issue amongst the refugees - that is a preposterous claim. The multi culture works in Australia. We have a wonderful history with it - ethnic European and then Asian.

The solution lies in fixing the system, not bolting the gate. Kindly don't use the out of control PC as an example of an issue when this is having literally no effect in Australia. Common sense will prevail.

[RUS]

Laughable fraud.

Trump winning should put it on the back burner for at least 4 years, which is only a good thing.

[Terry]

Laughable fraud.

Trump winning should put it on the back burner for at least 4 years, which is only a good thing.

Possibly rus - but if he puts it on the back burner won't that emit more carbon??