AFL vs NRL - the TV war

[Beaussie]

Regional markets don't matter to the tv networks bidding. Bids for football tv rights are based on the almighty capital cities where the AFL dominates.

[King-Eliagh]

Yes this is true now but in the not too distant future regional australia is set to boom. I think this will be an interesting time, and a time where NRL tv rights increase markedly.

[TLPG]

Regional markets don't matter to the tv networks bidding. Bids for football tv rights are based on the almighty capital cities where the AFL dominates.

Exactly Beau, and that's not going to change in the next ten to twenty years when one considers that more than half of the country's population is based in those five cities.

[enarelle]

Not sure what colour the sun is in this alternate AFL world where the regionals dont matter. It shines on a world that does not seem to be familiar with the retail/wholesale business model that this country operates on. The regionals include some of our largest cities eg Newcastle,Wollongong,Cairns and Townsville not to mention a place called Canberra. There are a whole series of radio stations,newspapers and TV stations that service them profitably. They have established wholesale relationships for both the FTA and cable television coverage of the NRL.

Does anyone seriously think that when Fox Sports bids for the NRL coverage they have not already worked out what both Foxtel and Austar will pay?

That Channel 9 who already on sell to WIN and NBN dont know how much they can get from them?

That the NRL created several regional teams and didn't check whether anyone was interested in their coverage and paying for it?

The AFL world dont like "regionals" because they do "nasty" things to NRL TV ratings like lift them by 50% and have independent companies like Repucom count them all and show the NRL had a higher audience than the AFL last year.

So the regionals are evil and must be undermined and destroyed. Of course that wont happen.

Does the AFL world ever ask themselves the question" if regionals dont matter why do they go to so much trouble to get the ratings?"

[TLPG]

Enarelle, if you think that Austar matters to either NRL or AFL you're dreaming. You named two cities that have a major AFL presence (Cairns and Canberra), and I'll throw a few back at you outside those five cities - Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, Hobart and Launceston. It equalises both sides in the finish.

Reality check - the real sponsors money is in the big cities. Sydney and Melbourne at the head of the pack, with Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth added. More than 11 million people in a country of 20 million. It says plenty. Even when you add those cities of more than 100,000 or close to it, you don't add that many aside from what's already been named.

Newcastle and Wollongong may be NRL heartland. But both do have an AFL presence (Black Diamond and South Coast respectively plus a Sydney comp team in Wollongong). All five cities I added are AFL heartland, and I think only Hobart has a rugby presence. No rugby in any of the others that I'm aware of.

Says plenty by itself.

[King-Eliagh]

Well said Enarelle =D>

I agree completely. Of course the regionals are taken into account. They are definitely very substantial markets. I also have no clue what colour the sun is for Beaussie and TLPG

First and foremost I think TLPG and beaussie conveniently forget Sydney and Brisbane are NRL Heartland Sure they have an AFL presence but a very small minority of people in both cities support AFL over League.

Secondly I think beaussie and TLPG also conveniently forget that the Gold Coast Tweed region, also Rugby League Heartland, has more than half a million people residing there.

Newcastle, Rugby League Heartland, more than half a million again.

Wollongong, as above, more than 300,000 people.

These 3 large cities combined amount to well above adelaide in terms of population.

The 5 cities TLPG "threw back at you", like a girl , have a total combined population of less than half the 3 I have mentioned

Once again Enarelle =D>

Thanks for providing some intelligence to this thread mate.

[enarelle]

In the Australia I live in there are 22.3million people. About 12.5m live in NSW/QLD/ACT ie the NRL heartland. Of these, from a TV ratings perspective, about 5 million live outside the Sydney/Brisbane catchment areas i.e population greater than SA/WA combined. To ignore these people just because a million people in the AFL states may not be included is ridiculous.

I will point out that the Repucom report includes all viewers regardless of where they live so Tasmania is included.

Please dont try and say because Canberra/Cairns have some people play AFL that they are even close to competing with the NRL for support.It is like saying AFL has a national competition due the Swans being in Sydney even though they get less than 2% of the population attending/viewing their games.

The dominance of NRL in the regionals is shown by how much the overall ratings lift for the NRL when they are added.

With regards Austar the question is "how important is the NRL to them" not the reverse. The answer is massive as they have grown on the back of NRL viewing. They know they must keep paying the price.

Finally lets not confuse support with the value of TV deals. AFL has some advantages like the length of the game that helps TV dollars but that has nothing to do with popularity.

The Repucom report showed that in aggregate audience the NRL passed the AFL by 3million viewers in 2009. In 2010 the lead was 8million. Five years ago the AFL had the lead in aggregate audience. The NRL has stormed back not due to increased coverage in other states but due to the renaissance of the game in its heartland.

[TLPG]

Enarelle, practical fact. FTA TV in the regional areas is a joke - for both AFL and NRL. They treat the regionals with contempt. That's where the majority of TV viewers come from. That's why Austar is not a factor like you think it is.

Second, the Riverina, the ACT, South East Queensland and Cairns are NOT NRL heartland. AFL Canberra is stronger than the Sydney comp and it always has been. AFL venues in Canberra are better looked after than rugby venues. At elite level, the AFL and the NRL have an equal presence in Brisbane and on the Gold Coast. The richest club in South East Queensland is a football club (AFL) - the Southport Sharks (I wish the Suns would hook up with them). The Suns will be playing a home game in Cairns this year. Funny how the Cowboys won't leave Townsville huh? That's NRL heartland? HA!

Third - if Sydney is NRL through and through, how come one game at the SFS pulled only 13,000 while the Swans pulled more than double that? Explain THAT one! Especially in light of your popularity argument.

Reality check. Rugby league has NO presence AT ALL in the vast majority of AFL heartland. Real football (Australian Rules) has a presence in your precious NRL heartland - even Townsville, Newcastle and Wollongong. They might not be elite comps, but it's more than what thugby has outside of NSW and QLD!!

AFL has an Australia wide influence. NRL does not. And if you were to add up attendance at ALL senior games in both codes - the AFL would win. They win on just elite competition (the AFL has the fourth highest average attendance of any elite competition IN THE WORLD - only gridiron, the German soccer comp and the IPL cricket have a higher average). Check Wikipedia if you don't believe me.

[King-Eliagh]

I think noone has defined "heartland" yet. My opinion would be that Heartland refers to a vast majority of support for a football code in a defined region. Support being both viewing the games, either on television or at the game, and the rates of juniors and seniors playing the game in the region. Do people agree with this definition? I definitely agree with enarelle that we cant confuse support with the value of tv deals. This is a confusion Beaussie and TLPG seem to have...I think it is a mistake and fails to understand the complexity surrounding the tv deals.

On the definition of "Heartland" I have provided, I would have to throw out TLPG's argument that the richest club in SE QLD is an AFL club and therefore the region must be AFL heartland. Furthermore, his argument on Sydney not being NRL Heartland is pathetic and another example of TLPG's 'one eye' blinking. Rugby League is FAR more popular and supported in Sydney, any numbnuts knows this. Although I must admit I think he has a point when it comes to the Riverina and the ACT. In my opinion these areas are in contention for which code is heartland.

Additionally we must keep in mind that TLPG rarely provides accurate and valid information on these boards, which I've proven several times. He also has developed no concept of an opinion other than his own being valid. So it is generally a waste of time reading his posts or arguing with the twit.

In my opinion SE QLD is definitely Rugby League Heartland. This is just my opinion though, based on my visits to the area and the sport being ingrained in the history of the region for much longer than AFL. I have yet to seek other numerical facts which highlight numbers of registered players and tv ratings in the area. Might need some help with the tv ratings but am sure I could look up numbers of registered players.

[Raiderdave]

Regional markets don't matter to the tv networks bidding. Bids for football tv rights are based on the almighty capital cities where the AFL dominates.

a myth put forward by the AFL & its clueless supporters
its where advertising is written that counts for TV execs & advertisers
67% is written in NSW & QLD ( umm where League dominates ) a recent report stated Regional QLD is worth more to Advertisers then Perth is

our dud deal last time had nothing to do with Regionals not mattering .. they certainly do
we got screwed by News Ltd & Ch 9 .. don't hold your breath waiting for this to occur a 2nd time
cos it won't ..... a billion plus baby & its coming our way

[Raiderdave]

Enarelle, practical fact. FTA TV in the regional areas is a joke - for both AFL and NRL. They treat the regionals with contempt. That's where the majority of TV viewers come from. That's why Austar is not a factor like you think it is.

Second, the Riverina, the ACT, South East Queensland and Cairns are NOT NRL heartland. AFL Canberra is stronger than the Sydney comp and it always has been. AFL venues in Canberra are better looked after than rugby venues. At elite level, the AFL and the NRL have an equal presence in Brisbane and on the Gold Coast. The richest club in South East Queensland is a football club (AFL) - the Southport Sharks (I wish the Suns would hook up with them). The Suns will be playing a home game in Cairns this year. Funny how the Cowboys won't leave Townsville huh? That's NRL heartland? HA!

Third - if Sydney is NRL through and through, how come one game at the SFS pulled only 13,000 while the Swans pulled more than double that? Explain THAT one! Especially in light of your popularity argument.

Reality check. Rugby league has NO presence AT ALL in the vast majority of AFL heartland. Real football (Australian Rules) has a presence in your precious NRL heartland - even Townsville, Newcastle and Wollongong. They might not be elite comps, but it's more than what thugby has outside of NSW and QLD!!

AFL has an Australia wide influence. NRL does not. And if you were to add up attendance at ALL senior games in both codes - the AFL would win. They win on just elite competition (the AFL has the fourth highest average attendance of any elite competition IN THE WORLD - only gridiron, the German soccer comp and the IPL cricket have a higher average). Check Wikipedia if you don't believe me.

ummm what ?

SE Qld is not League Heartland ?
this would be the same place that attracted 890K state of origin Veiwers .. & with the Gold coast .. over 1 million veiwers
where 2 origins sold out in 14 minutes .. thats 105K seats gone in less then a 1/4 of an hour
thats a game of RL you know & they do this up there year after year

the AFL could not attract that sort of interest if the Brisbane Lions were playing the Gold Coast Suns in the AFL Grand Final
the Riverina .. well who cares about that

& if the AFL is sooooooo popular in the ACT
why can't it get onto mainstream FTA TV on a Friday night ?
I'll tell you why
it would get pounded into rubble by WIN's NRL coverage thats why
nothing comes near to the NRL for popularity from about Holbrook in Sthn NSW North to Cape York Peninsula in QLD & anyone who thinks anything else is a deluded fool

[King-Eliagh]

=D>

[TLPG]

ummm what ?

SE Qld is not League Heartland ?
this would be the same place that attracted 890K state of origin Veiwers .. & with the Gold coast .. over 1 million veiwers
where 2 origins sold out in 14 minutes .. thats 105K seats gone in less then a 1/4 of an hour
thats a game of RL you know & they do this up there year after year

the AFL could not attract that sort of interest if the Brisbane Lions were playing the Gold Coast Suns in the AFL Grand Final
the Riverina .. well who cares about that

& if the AFL is sooooooo popular in the ACT
why can't it get onto mainstream FTA TV on a Friday night ?
I'll tell you why
it would get pounded into rubble by WIN's NRL coverage thats why
nothing comes near to the NRL for popularity from about Holbrook in Sthn NSW North to Cape York Peninsula in QLD & anyone who thinks anything else is a deluded fool

You obviously aren't aware of the fury in Canberra with Prime's treatment of AFL coverage. The AFL got a lot of letters about it and have done for more than 15 years at least. I never said those areas were AFL heartland. It's 50/50. Southport is the richest club in the country - and it's not a rugby club. Cazaly's in Cairns does similar business and the only reason that it's not as well off is purely because of population (Cairns v Gold Coast). I note that you fob off the Riverina - because you should care. Some of the country's best AFL players have come from the area, and thugby has being treating it with a lot of contempt even though it has a rugby presence.

If the FTA networks treated AFL with respect the ratings figures will shock you. Under the new regime, I'm going to be interested to see if Prime finally do the right thing and show the games they have live as they will be in Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia and Tasmania (and I think Northern Territory although I'm not sure of Prime's presence there).

Don't give me the State of Origin as an example. That pulls a sell out crowd even in Melbourne. It's an event in it's own right. Let's talk about the crowds that the Titans and the Broncos pull against the Lions and the Suns, especially the Brisbane teams.

Popularity isn't just about ratings. It's about attendances and participation as well. Think about that before answering me because I know what the last one in particular entails. I keep track of all of it.

[King-Eliagh]

Popularity isn't just about ratings. It's about attendances and participation as well. Think about that before answering me because I know what the last one in particular entails. I keep track of all of it.

If you keep track of all of it please provide us with a comparison of AFL and NRL participation rates in the gold coast region...

[Raiderdave]

ummm what ?

SE Qld is not League Heartland ?
this would be the same place that attracted 890K state of origin Veiwers .. & with the Gold coast .. over 1 million veiwers
where 2 origins sold out in 14 minutes .. thats 105K seats gone in less then a 1/4 of an hour
thats a game of RL you know & they do this up there year after year

the AFL could not attract that sort of interest if the Brisbane Lions were playing the Gold Coast Suns in the AFL Grand Final
the Riverina .. well who cares about that

& if the AFL is sooooooo popular in the ACT
why can't it get onto mainstream FTA TV on a Friday night ?
I'll tell you why
it would get pounded into rubble by WIN's NRL coverage thats why
nothing comes near to the NRL for popularity from about Holbrook in Sthn NSW North to Cape York Peninsula in QLD & anyone who thinks anything else is a deluded fool

You obviously aren't aware of the fury in Canberra with Prime's treatment of AFL coverage. The AFL got a lot of letters about it and have done for more than 15 years at least. I never said those areas were AFL heartland. It's 50/50. Southport is the richest club in the country - and it's not a rugby club. Cazaly's in Cairns does similar business and the only reason that it's not as well off is purely because of population (Cairns v Gold Coast). I note that you fob off the Riverina - because you should care. Some of the country's best AFL players have come from the area, and thugby has being treating it with a lot of contempt even though it has a rugby presence.

If the FTA networks treated AFL with respect the ratings figures will shock you. Under the new regime, I'm going to be interested to see if Prime finally do the right thing and show the games they have live as they will be in Victoria, South Australia, Western Australia and Tasmania (and I think Northern Territory although I'm not sure of Prime's presence there).

Don't give me the State of Origin as an example. That pulls a sell out crowd even in Melbourne. It's an event in it's own right. Let's talk about the crowds that the Titans and the Broncos pull against the Lions and the Suns, especially the Brisbane teams.

Popularity isn't just about ratings. It's about attendances and participation as well. Think about that before answering me because I know what the last one in particular entails. I keep track of all of it.

And what did Prime do ... nothing thats what .. if there was a market for it in the ACT they'd put it on .. they have the ratings for AFL here , there isn't any commercial sense for it to be shown when up against the NRL .. I've lived in Canberra for 29 years .. its 80/20 at best here ...case closed.

Then you cite one example of " rich " AFL clubs as a reason for the Gold Coast & Nth Qld as being 50/50
phhhhttt..... please , seriously poker machine bandits is the basis of your argument a sillier reason I've never read , most people who frequent licensed clubs to play pokies have no interest in sport at all ... it means zip. And also I know a hell of a lot about the Riverina & South West Slopes , its producing as many NRL stars as AFL ... its a melting pot of co existence of the 2 codes .. no one is on top here in its greater area above Holbrook as I pointed out.
And the AFL is treated with disrespect by the FTA networks is it ?
gee.. forcing broadcasters to show it prime time nationally despite AFL rating like a test pattern in NSW & QLD is really disrespectful isn't it .. I think its you who'd be surprised with the ratings .. not me.

we should ignore SOO cos that destroys your stupid assumption .. should we ?... OK lets
& lets talk about Lions V Broncos shall we
Lions are stoney broke ... crowds have been going backward for 5 years ... TV Ratings tracking the same way , in fact the @ss has fallen out of both in 2011.
the Broncos are on track for their highest average attendances since 1993
& their TV ratings are holding steady despite a small drop overall for NRL ratings ... thats that debate finished
the Titans are Last ATM in the NRL yet are averaging 17K a game .. gee thats awful isn't it .. the Suns are brand new .. when the novelty wares off .. & it will ... just like the Titans are experiencing right now .. & they're running last in 5 years time . lets compare notes then shall we.

Popularity is guaged by the things you've mentioned to a degree yes .. I'd like you to post the participation rates by all means , but do not put up those auskick numbers , they have been exposed as a fraud , school clinics where a kid walks past a sherrin .. & hes magically straight onto the AFL's data base as one of its juniors, what a crock , only registered players with clubs please

attendances are important too ..but also when the stadiums are full .. wether the depth of interest extends to the lounge rooms is a factor .. if you are prepared to watch something on TV , you have some level of interest at least..
if you are not even bothered to click a button on a remote to watch something .. you genuinely are not interested in it

for the AFL in QLD .. its easy to just about calculate the total number of interested persons in Sth East Qld ... its about odd 140K over 2 games

40K attendees between the Suns & Lions 100K odd TV veiwers for most matches between the 2 clubs , most weeks

for their NRL counter parts
well its over 50K attendees .... & 400K odd tv veiwers

for all discernable KI's .. theres no contest
RL is miles ahead of all other sports ... like I said , from Holbrook NSW... to Cooktown QLD