Footy turf war on the Gold Coast

[Beaussie]

Hmmm, interesting times ahead, especially considering last nights AGM result for the Kangaroos.

Footy turf war erupts over stadium crowd sizes
Pat McLeod
01Mar07
http://www.gcbulletin.com.au/article/20 ... ports.html

THE football turf war for Gold Coast sporting fans erupted into a bitter public slanging match yesterday with the capacity of the Carrara stadium at the centre of the dispute.

Queensland Aussie rules boss Richard Griffiths has described 'official' rugby league crowd figures at Gold Coast Stadium as 'crap'.

Titans managing director Michael Searle has hit back claiming AFL is embarrassed by the 'bitterly disappointing' crowds that code had attracted on the Gold Coast.

The cold war between the two codes has been forced out into the open with both hosting games at Carrara within a week.

Last Friday night 11,431 people turned up for the Kangaroos v Collingwood pre-season clash at Carrara. That crowd figure has been described by AFL officials as 'very close to capacity'.

Yet the Titans predict that they could get up to 15,000 for this Friday night's trial against Penrith, the first time the Gold Coast team has played at home.

The yawning gap between what the two codes believe is the capacity of the Coast's major sporting facility highlights one of the great Gold Coast sporting unknowns.

What is a full house at Carrara?

The Titans claim they have attracted crowds of up to 20,000 to games in recent years. But Griffiths, the general manager of AFL Queensland, described that figure as 'crap'.

"I don't have an argument with league, but that (20,000) is crap. There is no way known you could fit 20,000 in that stadium.

"For the Brisbane-Essendon game last year we had about 15,000 and that was jam-packed."

However Searle says he could supply the proof to back up league's figures.

"We had ticketed receipts for a crowd of more than 17,000 for the Cowboys-Bulldogs game last year," he said. "Our crowd figures were delivered to the NRL as part of the due diligence process.

"I have had to show the NRL that revenue derived from those games reconciled with crowd figures.

"The AFL can sit there firing shots over the bow, but he should spend more time worrying about getting crowd numbers to the venue.

"All he is doing is saying our figures are inflated to make his attendance look good. As far as I am concerned 11,500 for an AFL game featuring Collingwood and the Kangaroos would have been bitterly disappointing for them."

From being a sporting wasteland from the late 1990s that no national code wanted, the Gold Coast has now become a prized possession.

Since the NRL announced that the Titans would be part of their competition from this season all other codes, especially the AFL, have expressed renewed interest in the region.

The AFL's Kangaroos will play at least five games at Carrara this year as the league attempts to maintain a major presence here among the fans.

"Our strategy is about the AFL product on the Gold Coast with the Kangaroos a critical component of that," said Griffiths.

"We are investing in game development issues to build participation, interest and awareness.

"Ours is a bit more of a holistic approach to the development of the AFL game and the AFL product, whereas the Titans are a privately owned franchise that need to deliver bottom line profit, etc etc.

"Our approach is a little bit different to the Titans."

Searle fired back.

"If the AFL wants to take the gloves off, well we can do that," he said. "At the end of the day the only community-based football team, owned and operated throughout the Gold Coast, is the Titans.

"When we go to Robina (to a new stadium in 2008) we will know how popular rugby league is compared with AFL. He (Griffiths) will be getting 11,500 at Carrara and we will be getting 25,000 at Robina."

[Willis 21]

Round 1 - 42,000...

I'd say NRL 1 AFL 0..

[Willis 21]

Hang on a second, the Gold Coast Kangaroos got 11,000 tonight...

This is after a concerted martketing push from Channels 7 and 10 and the AFL, as well as many clinics and promotions from the players in the lead up to the game...

And they were playing the Lions who are just up the road, and are probably the best supported team in the area agongst the kiddies...

The crowds for games there later in the year might be around the 6,000 mark...

The turf war is over boys, and the winner is RL!! :P

[Beaussie]

From what I heard during the footy tonight, the AFL would be very pleased with the crowd in attendance. Didn't look like you could squeeze anymore fans in. The capacity for AFL matches at Carrara (unlike NRL matches) is reduced due to the nature of the field dimensions.

Considering it was a Kangaroos home game and Brisbane is what, an hour away from the Gold Coast, such a crowd doesn't look to bad particularly when you consider that such crowds and less in Melbourne for the top of the table Storm and Rugby League are seen by the NRL and many league fans as encouraging.

Willis, can you please explain why a crowd of more than 11,000 on the Gold Coast for a non-local team in the AFL is a disaster yet a crowd of just 9,000 last night in Melbourne for the Storm in the NRL is encouraging?

[Willis 21]

14,000 odd went to an NRL trial game this year at Carrara when the ground was in AFL mode so this is rubbish when people are claiming the game was sold out...

Do you think crowds of 7,000 will be acceptable later in the year when they are not playing the Lions?

I'll blame the weather for the Storm's crowd...thats what the Collingwood fans are offering as an excuse for their crowd today played next door...

[Beaussie]

Do you think crowds of 7,000 will be acceptable later in the year when they are not playing the Lions?

Do you think similar crowds for the top of the table Melbourne Storm in the NRL playing in Melbourne are acceptable?

[Willis 21]

I don't think that will happen...

[Beaussie]

I don't think that will happen...

History has shown it has already happened. Well very disappointing sub 8k crowds at least.

[Willis 21]

The Storm are averaging 12,300 this year. .its actually higher than St George...

If they maintain that they will be doing OK...

They are actually averaging higher in their 10th year then the Swans were in their tenth year in Sydney..

[Beaussie]

The Storm are averaging 12,300 this year. .its actually higher than St George...

If they maintain that they will be doing OK...

They are actually averaging higher in their 10th year then the Swans were in their tenth year in Sydney..

You're comparing the Swans crowds in their 10th year (wooden spooners I might add) with last years grand finalists and equal 1st team in 2007 - Melbourne Storm. Forget about the sellouts in Sydney when the Swans were making finals in the 80s of course.

Put it this way, imagine what the Storm's crowds would be like if they got the wooden spoon after finishing 12th the season before as was the case for the Swans. The Swans average crowds during their 3 wooden spoon years (1992, 1993 & 1994) are fantastic when you compare them with the top of the table and grand finalist Melbourne Storm's home crowds. You simply cannot deny that. Harsh reality of the stark contrast in the development of the competing codes in non-heartland areas eh?

[Willis 21]

Gotta agree with Leigh Matthews... The AFL needs to forget about further expansion in QLD until the Lions get back on track ( which may be a long time away )...

I really think that its possible they have missed the boat completely on the Gold Coast... The NRL's decision to put a team there this year is looking like a complete masterstroke...

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 22,00.html

Two Queensland teams 'too much'


LEIGH MATTHEWS believes Brisbane's worrying drop in support should make AFL expansionists think again about a second club in the north.

Matthews delivered the warning ahead of the Lions' "away" match against Melbourne at the Gabba tonight after being hit with figures showing a dramatic 16.9 per cent slump in membership.

Three years on from the end of the club's golden era, Brisbane has the smallest membership base (21,976) in the league and crowd numbers have plummeted to an average 27,000.

The turnaround is highlighted by the fact the Lions boasted a peak membership of 30,941 in 2004 when they made a fourth consecutive grand final and drew an average 33,500 to home games.

Matthews said the membership drop - easily the worst in the league when memberships are up by 2.6 per cent - was partly explained by their recent lack of success.

"That 2001 to 2004 period was our golden era," Matthews said. "You can't expect that you are going to be playing in grand finals every year.

"When you are doing that, it doesn't matter what club it is in the competition, you are getting bigger support when your team is winning more often.

"We haven't been giving our supporters and members the enjoyment at the footy that we were in the golden era and there's been a percentage of those people that have stopped coming."

He didn't believe the blame could be laid at the fickle nature of fans in a non-traditional Australian rules state but felt it sent a message to expansionists.

The Kangaroos, playing 10 home games over three seasons at Carrara, are under heavy pressure to relocate from Melbourne to the Gold Coast full-time.

The Kangaroos' on-field success has not translated to membership sales, with the club second worst (22,366) behind the Lions, and Matthews felt a move to Queensland would present both clubs with a huge struggle.

"The AFL have said clearly for a year or two they want a game of football in south-east Queensland, at the top level, every weekend, therefore can a club be based on the Gold Coast?" he said. "That's admirable but the practical possibilities of it being financed is what we're talking about."

Matthews denied the loss of crowd-pullers such as triple-premiership skipper Michael Voss and Bulldogs recruit Jason Akermanis had a major effect.

"I don't know how many people go to the footy to watch individual players," he said.

"If a side is winning week after week I reckon that's the main thing they want, to be honest.

"(Former VFL president) Allen Aylett said 20 years ago a club's financial strength must be judged on how they're going when it's going poorly and not winning too many games.

"We've certainly had a year or two when our win-loss ratio has been very much in the negative. We know what the membership is this year and it was down 20 per cent, what it is going to be next year none of us know."

[Beaussie]

No surprise that Leigh would say what he has said above. He and the Lions board are only interested in protecting their own market share. They don't want any competition in QLD. I remember hearing the same kind of comments from the Broncos when there was talk of the Gold Coast Titan entering the NRL. Competition is good.

[TLPG]

No, Beau, I agree with Willis for now. No room for a second team up there - yet. But they're closer to it than Sydney is.

The AFL should be concentrating on Canberra and Tassie - especially the former.

Oh BTW;

14,000 odd went to an NRL trial game this year at Carrara when the ground was in AFL mode so this is rubbish when people are claiming the game was sold out...

More seating is available when Carrara is in RL mode, Willis! The capacity is cut by 3,000 when converted to AFL mode.

So the AFL game WAS sold out!