Talking Footy

Now you're being silly.

Pfft

Truthsayer wrote:

You're against Aborigines being trained in medicine or boxing?

No, but the point is that they have to be ready to be able to cope with doing that to beging with. Many aren't, and that's the first problem that needs to be resolved. If you don't, it would be like bailing out a sinking boat with a sieve.

While I was typing that I was calling up a couple of links from Wikipedia's article on Bolt. It's not a good look for News Limited so I have to say I'm leaning towards supporting Reaper's view on that at least. But I don't think Truthsayer was going down the Jewish/Nazi line like that!! Come on, there's no comparison between the two scenarios!

That is why I told Mr Grim he was being silly.

All the Aboriginal people want is to be accepted and to obtain the same opportunities that others receive. News Limited's gesture achieves this in the areas described. Why would you, Mr TLPG, say that many aren't ready?

We can let the Natives do dancing for us at ceremonies and give them beads and trinkets as gestures of goodwill.

They already do that.

Truthsayer wrote:

That is why I told Mr Grim he was being silly.

All the Aboriginal people want is to be accepted and to obtain the same opportunities that others receive. News Limited's gesture achieves this in the areas described. Why would you, Mr TLPG, say that many aren't ready?

Because many prefer to use what money they get for booze. Unfortunate fact of life. They just aren't interested in getting into medicine. There are exceptions of course, but the damage that 179 years of neglect (legal neglect as well under the constitution until 1967) has become inherent. We're dealing with a lot of low self esteem and lingering anger. The boxing idea might have a bit more merit, but not everyone's a boxer and I personally prefer not to see that anyway.

Education is where money should really be going. Work on the kids, as well as health services from others already qualified. That's what's really needed, and it's why I agree with Reaper that it's a token gesture.

You know TLPG I was just fishing for rednecks on here and have now found them....Where is your evidence that Aboriginal people spend all their money on booze? Fact is that white Australians are the biggest drinkers and hypocrites going.

Mr Warrior is partly correct, Mr TLPG. Whilst I do agree that drinking issues exist in the Aboriginal community, Europeans did bring that habit here and are just as prone to it if not more so. And I also call for evidence that all money is being spent on drinking.

I'm not disputing who started the problem, Truthsayer. I am in no doubt about that. But alcohol abuse within the Aboriginal community is far deeper ingrained. For Warrior I suggest you read this link, in particular the following quote;

The government, fully supported by the Labor opposition, rushed a series of draconian measures through the federal parliament that required the suspension of the Racial Discrimination Act and the Land Rights Act 1976. These included: compulsory quarantining of 50 percent of welfare payments to be spent on food and clothing, the banning of alcohol and pornography, increased policing and the imposition of business administrators in Aboriginal communities.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/may20 ... -m30.shtml

Now while this article as a whole criticises the intervention pretty heavily, I firmly believe it is very much a case of "heads you lose, tails you lose". One can't just sit on their thumbs and do nothing - which is what the UN in effect would want us to do. In this case I don't agree, because lives are at risk. Big risk.

The point is the only reason they were and are banning the purchase of booze using welfare payments was to stop them from spending it all on it. The Irish taught the Aborigines how to drink to excess because of it's numbing effect. It's BS and has to stop.

This does not prove that they spend all their money on alcohol. The quote you gave in fact revealed that they spend their welfare money on other non essential items also. You mention the intervention, which the article also admits was brought on not by alcohol, but by sexual child abuse.

A future in medicine would encourage indigenous Australians to help their own.

TLPG and Truthsayer, the pair of you appear ill informed on these matters and I suggest the you take more time to try and actually understand what Grim Reaper has been suggesting rather than presenting your own wikipedia based attitudes and solutions to complex issues.

The type of negative stereotyping relating to alcohol described in the intervention policy and supported by TLPG is a national disgrace which has been accurately judged as racist and is perpetuated by those who do not take the time to understand the issues. Why do people presume they know what the, or that there is a, "problem" with Aboriginal people before they have taken the time to properly consult and learn from the people themselves? They automatically show they lack any understanding of the diversity of Aboriginal Australia

Intercultural relations and the diversity of Aboriginal Australia are/is complex and the simplistic, tokenistic and arrogant attitudes expressed within the articles Grim presents are little different to those expressed by TLPG and Truthsayer. Ill informed commentators preaching from their positions of authority and ignorance has been the issue in relations between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australia since colonisation. Those who are quick to point and discriminate are the problems, not a group of Aboriginal people who drink alcohol. And by the way, to put another light on this, 30% of Aboriginal people dont drink at all. I'm sure that there is also another large percentage who dont have issues with alcohol abuse at all. So why do so many people say "Aboriginal people drink too much"???

Edit by TLPG: Baiting paragraph removed.

Pardon me, Mr Eliagh, but I was in fact disagreeing with Mr TLPG's allegation that all Aborigines have issues with alcohol and requested evidence. Mr TLPG's attempt to provide evidence failed.

It is also fact however that all cultures have issues with alcohol, as Mr Warrior stated. This includes the Aborigines. So it would be folly with reality to suggest that the Aboriginal people don't have these issues at all. That would be just as false as Mr TLPG's claim that all Aborigines have these issues.

I would be interested to read your view on Mr Grim's original posting and whether or not you concur with him that New Limited's work is a "token gesture" or whether or not you concur with me that it is useful work.

I dont concur with you Truthslayer. What it appears newslimited are doing, is what many organisations are doing now. Throwing a miniscule portion of their wealth towards a 'cause' aimed at Aboriginal people. They then publicise their act to gain recognition and I'm sure some of the dills might even allow themselves to have a warm fuzzy feeling that they are contributing to 'closing the gap'. As Grim says, its tokenism.

Thread locked due to Reaper's slander of the forum moderator.