History and the origins of Australia’s Game

Which is the best football code? Here you can have it out with other football fans.
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by TLPG »

truthbomber wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:02 pm
Australias game ?
pigs arse it is :twisted:
Aussie Rules is Australian.

Thugby League is British.

Enough said.
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by truthbomber »

TLPG wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:42 pm
truthbomber wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:02 pm
Australias game ?
pigs arse it is :twisted:
Aussie Rules is Australian.

Thugby League is British.

Enough said.
derps n misses was invented by an aboriginal murdering drunk , in the British Colony of Vicderpia
its a mish mash any number of British sports including union & Gaelic football ( irish)

its either despised or treated with complete contempt in half of Australia

when half of a country has little to no interest in a sport, that sport has no right to that countrys name :cool:
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by Quolls2019 »

truthbomber wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:24 pm
TLPG wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:42 pm
truthbomber wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:02 pm
Australias game ?
pigs arse it is :twisted:
Aussie Rules is Australian.

Thugby League is British.

Enough said.
derps n misses was invented by an aboriginal murdering drunk , in the British Colony of Vicderpia
its a mish mash any number of British sports including union & Gaelic football ( irish)

its either despised or treated with complete contempt in half of Australia

when half of a country has little to no interest in a sport, that sport has no right to that countrys name :cool:
Certainly a mixture of rules from some British public schools with some local adaption's at the start. Nothing to do with Gaelic football.
And not invented by Wills, besides writing the initial letter suggesting formation of a football club, he was pretty much ignored by the other members of the first rules committee, wasn't even invited to the 2nd meeting for some rule revision.
Good player though, and for some time.
There are lies, damn lies and then there are ratings.
Rugby league, Australias most popular game in some of North Eastern Australia.
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by truthbomber »

Quolls2019 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:51 pm
truthbomber wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:24 pm
TLPG wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:42 pm


Aussie Rules is Australian.

Thugby League is British.

Enough said.
derps n misses was invented by an aboriginal murdering drunk , in the British Colony of Vicderpia
its a mish mash any number of British sports including union & Gaelic football ( irish)

its either despised or treated with complete contempt in half of Australia

when half of a country has little to no interest in a sport, that sport has no right to that countrys name :cool:
Certainly a mixture of rules from some British public schools with some local adaption's at the start. Nothing to do with Gaelic football.
And not invented by Wills, besides writing the initial letter suggesting formation of a football club, he was pretty much ignored by the other members of the first rules committee, wasn't even invited to the 2nd meeting for some rule revision.
Good player though, and for some time.
nothing to do with Gaelic football ? 8-[

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :(/ :(/ :(/
sure

the hand pass , the bouncing ... the posts
all stolen from Irelands national game
wow
fumblers & their utter lies :^o :^o :^o :^o [-( [-( [-( [-( [-(
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by Quolls2019 »

truthbomber wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:15 pm
Quolls2019 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:51 pm
truthbomber wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:24 pm


derps n misses was invented by an aboriginal murdering drunk , in the British Colony of Vicderpia
its a mish mash any number of British sports including union & Gaelic football ( irish)

its either despised or treated with complete contempt in half of Australia

when half of a country has little to no interest in a sport, that sport has no right to that countrys name :cool:
Certainly a mixture of rules from some British public schools with some local adaption's at the start. Nothing to do with Gaelic football.
And not invented by Wills, besides writing the initial letter suggesting formation of a football club, he was pretty much ignored by the other members of the first rules committee, wasn't even invited to the 2nd meeting for some rule revision.
Good player though, and for some time.
nothing to do with Gaelic football ? 8-[

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :(/ :(/ :(/
sure

the hand pass , the bouncing ... the posts
all stolen from Irelands national game
wow
fumblers & their utter lies :^o :^o :^o :^o [-( [-( [-( [-( [-(
Except that the rules for Gaelic Football were not written until 1884.

“ The first account of what the founders of modern Gaelic football referred to as Irish football date to 1873. Paddy Begley notes that in County Kerry in 1870 only soccer and rugby were played, although historian Paddy Foley notes that by 1874 a third, very different form of football began to emerge and spread across South-West Ireland. At Killarney, these highly popular matches were virtually indistinguishable from the Victorian Rules (first codified in 1859 and then played extensively in the Colony of Victoria and Colony of Queensland and to a lesser extent in the colonies of New South Wales and New Zealand). This kicking variety of football was even played with an oval ball which became customary in Australia in the 1870s and that scoring was achieved only by kicking goals. A major difference between the two styles is that Irish variety featured high kicking "up and under" whereas in colonial Victoria, the little marks or foot passes were much more common. While the founders of the game were all familiar with or played rugby, including Cusack and Davin, few had actually played Irish football as it was so rare outside of the South-West, though the influence of this football on the founders was obvious, this is most likely the "football kicking under the Irish rules" that Thomas Croke later recalled in County Cork.

Irish football is a great game and worth going a long way to see when played on a fairly laid out ground and under proper rules. Many old people say just hurling exceeded it as a trial of men. I would not care to see either game now as the rules stand at present. I may say there are no rules and therefore those games are often dangerous.
Maurice Davin, 1884.

Irish historian Garnham, citing R.M. Peter's Irish Football Annual of 1880, argued that Gaelic Football did not actually exist prior to the 1880s and curious on the origin of the distinctive features was of the belief that clubs from England in 1868 most likely introduced elements of their codes including the "mark" (a free kick to players who cleanly catch the ball, which was a feature of the matches played in the 1880s) and scoring by kicking between the upright posts. Unable to identify the source of these peculiar traits he believed they were introduced from English clubs Trinity (1854) and Blackheath (1862) who had their own distinctive rules.”
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Rugby league, Australias most popular game in some of North Eastern Australia.
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by pussycat Mark 11 »

Rugby league had a 'mark' back in the days of Daily Messenger.
Australia's number 1 sport RUGBY LEAGUE. Preferred by more Australians than any other :cheers:
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by TLPG »

truthbomber wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:24 pm
TLPG wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:42 pm
truthbomber wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:02 pm
Australias game ?
pigs arse it is :twisted:
Aussie Rules is Australian.

Thugby League is British.

Enough said.
derps n misses was invented by an aboriginal murdering drunk , in the British Colony of Vicderpia
its a mish mash any number of British sports including union & Gaelic football ( irish)

its either despised or treated with complete contempt in half of Australia

when half of a country has little to no interest in a sport, that sport has no right to that countrys name :cool:
The game's base - while taking some aspects from British sport - is Marn Grook. As Australian as you can get.
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by Fred »

I think that has been largely refuted
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by TLPG »

Then how come the First Australians are so good at the game then? Anyone who has refuted it is not being very logical in my opinion. Marn Grook has a lot of similarities - in fact the Scotch College/Melbourne Grammar game on the description may as well have been Marn Grook except that there was scoring.
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by Quolls2019 »

TLPG wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:01 pm
Then how come the First Australians are so good at the game then? Anyone who has refuted it is not being very logical in my opinion. Marn Grook has a lot of similarities - in fact the Scotch College/Melbourne Grammar game on the description may as well have been Marn Grook except that there was scoring.
Not largely refuted…totally refuted.
Australian rules was organised by old British public schoolboys based on a selection of rules they played at their respective schools.

The organisers and rules committee had 3 things in common
1. All were educated in the British public school system.
2. All were members of the Melbourne Cricket Club (and at different times were office bearers).
3. And very importantly, all drank at Bryants Parade Hotel.

The first Australians were very good at boxing too…and sudanese are proving to be pretty good at it too.
Doesn't mean they started it. And the historical records of marn grook and similar games are very limited.
One of the early beliefs (remembering that the marn grook association did start until at least the 1930’s) was that the high mark “proved” the association.

Unfortunately this did not develop in Australian rules until a couple of decades after the game was established.
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by TLPG »

4. And saw Marn Grook being played by the First Australians.

I'm not saying they started it. I'm saying it had an influence - and speaking as a historian I find it hard to believe it didn't. It makes no sense given that union bears no resemblance to our game and Marn Grook does. Gaelic football does to and for the record while it wasn't codified until later (1870's) it was still about as an idea surely?
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by Quolls2019 »

TLPG wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:09 pm
4. And saw Marn Grook being played by the First Australians.

I'm not saying they started it. I'm saying it had an influence - and speaking as a historian I find it hard to believe it didn't. It makes no sense given that union bears no resemblance to our game and Marn Grook does. Gaelic football does to and for the record while it wasn't codified until later (1870's) it was still about as an idea surely?
No influence at all.
And several of the early rules of Canterbury, Rugby and Blackheath had rules very similar to Australian rules.
The first rules of association football allowed kicking through the posts and catching the ball for a free kick by making a mark.
And a Description of the Rules of Football as played at Shrewsbury School (1855).

1. Each side could consist of twelve, or of an unlimited number.
2. A match was decided by the best out of three 'games' (i.e. goals).
3. A goal could be kicked at any height.
4. A player who caught the ball direct from a kick could take a 'hoist' (i.e. drop kick); otherwise the ball might not be handled.
5. No one might stand wilfully between the ball and his opponent's goal.

Lots of similar but different games played in the english schools.

Tom Wills had significant contact with local aboriginals in 3 colonies as a child, youth and an adult before and after his English trip, on a cultural, personal and sports basis.
He was a prolific writer, mentions many things about aboriginal sporting prowess, but never mentions any form of native football.
The mark/catch and kicking practices were well established in some the English public schools when the members of the rules committee attended them.

Some historians have mentioned the influence of irishman Tom Smith in the formation of the first rules.

Thomas Smith was the Irishman who was part of the first Melbourne rules committee.

He was educated at Trinity College, Dublin, formally and officially known as College of the Holy and Undivided Trinity of Queen Elizabeth.
This is a Protestant established University to promote the ideals of the English establishment and
suppress local tradition, beliefs and practices. It did not support, or allow any native practices including sport.
Until 1793 Catholics were prohibited from attending and after that date admission was via a process of vigorous religious testing that very few Catholics passed, they were still banned from any teaching or authority positions.

In 1871 the catholic authorities of Ireland banned all Catholics from attending this college.

Smith graduated from the university around 1852 and arrived in Victoria 1858.
Irishman in name only, grew up in a Protestant, heavily English dominated, environment where it very unlikely he was aware of much if any of the Irish culture.

At this time there is no record of any organised Irish football being played, as generally, Irish culture was suppressed. Mob, village and town football was certainly played on occasion and in some parts of the country was referred to as caid.

At the time Trinity College played a game akin to early rugby but with sufficient enough differences that when an English student from Rugby College, Charles West, watched a game in the 1850’s he commented that it was “Rugby of sorts”.

The other first rules committee members were also English educated gentleman, Wills was born in Australia but spent his higher education years in England. He was an outstanding sportsman and played both cricket and football at rugby, and cricket, and possibly football at Cambridge, both colleges played a significantly different style of game.
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History and the origins of Australia’s Game

Post by truthbomber »

TLPG wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:09 pm
4. And saw Marn Grook being played by the First Australians.

I'm not saying they started it. I'm saying it had an influence - and speaking as a historian I find it hard to believe it didn't. It makes no sense given that union bears no resemblance to our game and Marn Grook does. Gaelic football does to and for the record while it wasn't codified until later (1870's) it was still about as an idea surely?
saw nothing
a fumbler myth ... been debunked years ago

liars
:^o :^o :^o :^o :^o :^o
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by truthbomber »

Quolls2019 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 9:05 pm
truthbomber wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:15 pm
Quolls2019 wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:51 pm


Certainly a mixture of rules from some British public schools with some local adaption's at the start. Nothing to do with Gaelic football.
And not invented by Wills, besides writing the initial letter suggesting formation of a football club, he was pretty much ignored by the other members of the first rules committee, wasn't even invited to the 2nd meeting for some rule revision.
Good player though, and for some time.
nothing to do with Gaelic football ? 8-[

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :(/ :(/ :(/
sure

the hand pass , the bouncing ... the posts
all stolen from Irelands national game
wow
fumblers & their utter lies :^o :^o :^o :^o [-( [-( [-( [-( [-(
Except that the rules for Gaelic Football were not written until 1884.

“ The first account of what the founders of modern Gaelic football referred to as Irish football date to 1873. Paddy Begley notes that in County Kerry in 1870 only soccer and rugby were played, although historian Paddy Foley notes that by 1874 a third, very different form of football began to emerge and spread across South-West Ireland. At Killarney, these highly popular matches were virtually indistinguishable from the Victorian Rules (first codified in 1859 and then played extensively in the Colony of Victoria and Colony of Queensland and to a lesser extent in the colonies of New South Wales and New Zealand). This kicking variety of football was even played with an oval ball which became customary in Australia in the 1870s and that scoring was achieved only by kicking goals. A major difference between the two styles is that Irish variety featured high kicking "up and under" whereas in colonial Victoria, the little marks or foot passes were much more common. While the founders of the game were all familiar with or played rugby, including Cusack and Davin, few had actually played Irish football as it was so rare outside of the South-West, though the influence of this football on the founders was obvious, this is most likely the "football kicking under the Irish rules" that Thomas Croke later recalled in County Cork.

Irish football is a great game and worth going a long way to see when played on a fairly laid out ground and under proper rules. Many old people say just hurling exceeded it as a trial of men. I would not care to see either game now as the rules stand at present. I may say there are no rules and therefore those games are often dangerous.
Maurice Davin, 1884.

Irish historian Garnham, citing R.M. Peter's Irish Football Annual of 1880, argued that Gaelic Football did not actually exist prior to the 1880s and curious on the origin of the distinctive features was of the belief that clubs from England in 1868 most likely introduced elements of their codes including the "mark" (a free kick to players who cleanly catch the ball, which was a feature of the matches played in the 1880s) and scoring by kicking between the upright posts. Unable to identify the source of these peculiar traits he believed they were introduced from English clubs Trinity (1854) and Blackheath (1862) who had their own distinctive rules.”
hahah

trott out all the articles you want

your sport is just a mish mash of other games including Irish football..
not unique at all
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Re: Melbourne Storm V Sydney Roosters

Post by truthbomber »

the .... laughable .. simply ... pathetic attempt to pretend the derps & giggles was some derivative of an ancient game played by native australians in an attempt to appear... more australian

shows what this sport will do , will misrepresent & lie about to further its agenda
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