Talking Footy

Quolls2019 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 am

There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.

Bumsniffers wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:28 pm

Quolls2019 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 am

There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.

The AFL adopted the position that it was possible, but not really certain until a few years back. With the Goodes thing, they evidently decided to embrace it a little more.

A lot of AFL folks are inclined to discount the work of historians with a known bent for other codes, like Roy Hay in particular.

Howcver, I think Wills influence on the game is somewhat over-rated. Yes he wrote a letter advocating for a game of our own, and yes he was at the first meetings - but people at the meeting note that he put forth rugby rules which werent acceptable to the rest. The dude was literally one of 7 people involved, and he wasnt at follow up meetings where the rules were updated and rewritten in 1859 and 1860.

The entire Marngrook thing rests on the idea that Wills MAY have seen and MAY have played, but theres no concrete evidence he did either.

Terry wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:56 pm

Fake new BumSniffing Wookie!!! Actual historians employed by bumsniffing fumble house proved it didn't happen. Case closed!!!!!

Bumsniffers wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:25 pm

Terry wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:56 pm

Fake new BumSniffing Wookie!!! Actual historians employed by bumsniffing fumble house proved it didn't happen. Case closed!!!!!

One historian has suggested its a myth. (in the official AFL history in 2008).

Others - including AFL execs - have since changed their tune.

Theres no proof in either direction, but Marngrooks influence on the game is chiefly based on the absence of evidence rather than anything tangible.

Terry wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:52 pm

Oh Gee..............you're a genius pal.........."chiefly based on the absence of evidence rather anything tangible" lololololololololol. If anything has an absence of evidence it didn't happen ya dill!!!! Ya just can't make it up pal!!!

Go back go your other sites will ya!!! Since you've been gone the place has picked up again. Don't spoil it!!!!!!

Bumsniffers wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:28 pm

Quolls2019 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 am

There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.

The AFL adopted the position that it was possible, but not really certain until a few years back. With the Goodes thing, they evidently decided to embrace it a little more.

A lot of AFL folks are inclined to discount the work of historians with a known bent for other codes, like Roy Hay in particular.

However, I think Wills influence on the game is somewhat over-rated. Yes he wrote a letter advocating for a game of our own, and yes he was at the first meetings - but people at the meeting note that he put forth rugby rules which werent acceptable to the rest. The dude was literally one of 7 people involved, and he wasnt at follow up meetings where the rules were updated and rewritten in 1859 and 1860.

The entire Marngrook thing rests on the idea that Wills MAY have seen and MAY have played, but theres no concrete evidence he did either.

Quolls2019 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:42 pm

Bumsniffers wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:28 pm

Quolls2019 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 am

There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.

The AFL adopted the position that it was possible, but not really certain until a few years back. With the Goodes thing, they evidently decided to embrace it a little more.

A lot of AFL folks are inclined to discount the work of historians with a known bent for other codes, like Roy Hay in particular.

However, I think Wills influence on the game is somewhat over-rated. Yes he wrote a letter advocating for a game of our own, and yes he was at the first meetings - but people at the meeting note that he put forth rugby rules which werent acceptable to the rest. The dude was literally one of 7 people involved, and he wasnt at follow up meetings where the rules were updated and rewritten in 1859 and 1860.

The entire Marngrook thing rests on the idea that Wills MAY have seen and MAY have played, but theres no concrete evidence he did either.

I agree on Wills influence being substantially less that credited, not often given credit is the local pub owner, James Bryant’s name is mentioned several times, he organised the 1859 game, supplied the accoutrements and the venue for the first and following meetings, was also regularly named as captain of several subsequent games.
Even in 1858 Wills was on the outer with his MCC teammates and it deteriorated from there both in cricket and football.

Quolls2019 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:42 pm

Bumsniffers wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:28 pm

Quolls2019 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 am

There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.

The AFL adopted the position that it was possible, but not really certain until a few years back. With the Goodes thing, they evidently decided to embrace it a little more.

A lot of AFL folks are inclined to discount the work of historians with a known bent for other codes, like Roy Hay in particular.

However, I think Wills influence on the game is somewhat over-rated. Yes he wrote a letter advocating for a game of our own, and yes he was at the first meetings - but people at the meeting note that he put forth rugby rules which werent acceptable to the rest. The dude was literally one of 7 people involved, and he wasnt at follow up meetings where the rules were updated and rewritten in 1859 and 1860.

The entire Marngrook thing rests on the idea that Wills MAY have seen and MAY have played, but theres no concrete evidence he did either.

I agree on Wills influence being substantially less that credited, not often given credit is the local pub owner, James Bryant’s name is mentioned several times, he organised the 1859 game, supplied the accoutrements and the venue for the first and following meetings, was also regularly named as captain of several subsequent games.
Even in 1858 Wills was on the outer with his MCC teammates and it deteriorated from there both in cricket and football.

Terry wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:55 am

Is this a retrospective history trying to clear Australia's most racist, grubby, lying so called sport????? Yep, I'll go with that!! Typical fumbling cover-up 101. In this case 170 years after the event.