GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by pussycat Mark 11 »

Does anyone have any more on this story? its behind a paywall.


thtps://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news ... our=append


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

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pussycat Mark 11 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:38 pm Does anyone have any more on this story? its behind a paywall.


thtps://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news ... our=append
Is the AFL losing the great football war of western Sydney?
It was former Australian Rugby League chief executive Geoff Carr who once warned the AFL its push into western Sydney could be its Vietnam War.
“It is a huge risk for the AFL and a lot of people say it will be their Vietnam,” Carr said in 2009. “If they want to fight out there, that is their call.”
Thirteen years on, the Giants are languishing at 15th on the ladder and coach Leon Cameron has walked away from the job. Statistics show the GWS Giants are yet to make solid inroads into western Sydney’s sporting heartland of Parramatta, with participation figures leaked to The Weekend Australian showing just 1 per cent of participants in the area are playing Australian football, while TV ratings and crowd figures this season have, at times, been poor.
Despite an estimated $200m poured into GWS over the past decade, a City of Parramatta report from March shows AFL is the least popular of the 11 sports listed on a pie chart.
It shows AFL’s formal participation in the City of Parramatta — a home local government area of the Giants — is at 1 per cent of nearly 20,000 participants (senior and junior).
Meanwhile, tackle rugby league makes up 7 per cent. But when combined with the game’s other formats of touch football (11 per cent) and OzTag (6 per cent), the NRL holds a 24 per cent cut of participation figures.
Rugby league is the second-most popular sport behind soccer, which has a 47 per cent share of participation.
The Giants insist that despite these Parramatta statistics, the AFL figures truly show the growth of the game in western Sydney — with participation community football and Auskick doubling since 2012 in the area.
The AFL NSW/ACT has secured seven new AFL facilities in western Sydney since 2019 and facilitated upgrades for 13 existing club homes in the past 10 years.
AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan told The Weekend Australian the Giants were an irrefutable success story for the code.
“The Giants have unquestionably been a success story for our game and in the broader Australian sporting landscape with three teams across men’s and women’s elite sport and while they have reached great heights on-field, they have also continued to expand their footprint at an extraordinary rate,” he said.
“Given the base the club has built in new territory in just 11 years, there is no doubt it is going to be a very powerful and large club attracting generations of fans for decades to come.”
GWS boss Dave Matthews pointed out the Giants just ticked over 30,000 members. “By any metric, the Giants’ growth since entering the AFL just a decade ago has been remarkable,” he said. “As an organisation with over 30,000 members and three elite teams under the Giants brand our footprint in NSW and the ACT is vast.”
The AFL does not make participation numbers public but it was reported last week that the participation rates for boys aged 10-18 were down by 11.7 per cent in NSW (and just under 6 per cent in Victoria this year). The AFL attributed the fall in participation to the impact of Covid-19 on young people playing sport, while they also said the floods earlier this year had hurt NSW’s participation in junior footy.
Former long-time Sydney Swans chair Richard Colless — who in 1997 co-authored the review of the development of Australian Football in NSW/ACT and chaired the NSW/ACT Commission comprised exclusively of local members — has a deep knowledge of pathways, growing the game and what it takes to make a football club in Sydney successful.
Colless says while participation has risen across Sydney since 2000 it hasn’t converted to the elite level.
He noted the GWS players from NSW are almost entirely from regional NSW and the ACT.
Colless, who helmed the Swans for 21 years overseeing two AFL premierships, says area from the Illawarra (Wollongong) to the Hunter (Newcastle), where 27 per cent of the Australian population lives, has yet to be capitalised on by the AFL.
Colless says the statistics show the AFL hasn’t been able to cut into this rugby league talent belt and pointed out while there were 80 players added to senior lists this year (national draft and rookie elevations) none were from this area.
“The AFL seem oblivious or indifferent to this fact,” Colless said. “The AFL has a national competition but not a national game.”
He said the Parramatta council statistics were a concern — but of greater concern is the powerful Australian Rugby League chair Peter V’landys’s play to secure $800m from the NSW Government for redeveloping suburban grounds.
“This is the world rugby league heartland and I fear the AFL may have massively underestimated the power and craftiness of rugby league,” Colless said.
“I reckon if all suburban grounds are materially upgraded and with no draft it will lead to greater local links being created. It will be back to the good old days.”
Colless has empathy for the Giants’ situation and intricately understands the cost of living pressures and in turn the challenge to retain players and staff in Sydney. He constantly advocated for more player assistance for the NSW-based clubs — with his experience of overseeing the West Coast Eagles and the Swans.
Colless believes the AFL should seriously consider restructuring the administration of the game in the NSW and ACT and revive a local commission.
He also said with Rugby Australia this week securing the World Cup for 2027 and 2029, there was more competition in the Sydney market. “Rugby has still got some aces up their sleeve,” Colless said. “Sydney is the most competitive football market in the world. Tell me where else there are four main football codes competing for primacy?”
The Giants, who entered the competition in 2012, have struggled recently with crowd numbers and television figures this year — just 24,000 in Sydney tuned in for one game this season.
While the AFL boasts an extraordinary 1 million members across the code, the Giants state they have over a 30,000-strong membership base, however competing codes have privately scoffed at the figure. Critics have pointed to the small crowds currently turning up for the games. One source noted there hadn’t been a sold-out a game in Sydney since 2018.
The Giants can attract crowds of around 25,000 to their derby against the Swans. But just 4014 turned up for the game against the Gold Coast Suns last month.
Like Colless said, if V’landys is successful in his push for an $800m investment in suburban NRL grounds, this could be a problem for the AFL.
GWS bosses repeatedly maintain the franchise is here to stay. That dipping crowds and ratings are something to overcome as they play the “long game”.
In 2018, GWS chair Tony Shepherd told the Herald Sun Carr’s barb about the Vietnam had driven him and others within his administration to make the club successful.
“I’m not the smartest guy in the world, but I tell you what, I’m one of the most determined and that inspired me to say, ‘I’ll make you eat those words, and if I have to wait 20 years to make you eat them, we will get there,” Shepherd said.
Events are showing the years to come might be the most defining in the sporting war for western Sydney.


There are lies, damn lies and then there are ratings.
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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by leeroy*NRL* »

Fred wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:32 pm I posted on FB that it feels like it has been raining since before Christmas - which people agreed.
yeah no doubt.. NSW and QLD have had huge amounts of Rain.


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by leeroy*NRL* »

Interesting points which we already knew..

The AFL has a national competition but not a national game.”

Sydney is the most competitive football market in the world. Tell me where else there are four main football codes competing for primacy


In Melbourne you compete against nothing really..

In Sydney union and league compete against each other..


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by pussycat Mark 11 »

The AFL have the true figures! :(/ :(/ :(/ these people truly are delusional.

I cant see why more teams aren't modeling themselves on a succesful side like GWS :wink:


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by Quolls2019 »

leeroy*NRL* wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:39 pm Interesting points which we already knew..

The AFL has a national competition but not a national game.”

Sydney is the most competitive football market in the world. Tell me where else there are four main football codes competing for primacy


In Melbourne you compete against nothing really..

In Sydney union and league compete against each other..
Is union still strong in Sydney? Super Rugby is going so well they don't put up the attendance figures anymore.
Do they still publish ratings?
How is the 2nd level union against 2nd level league?


There are lies, damn lies and then there are ratings.
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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by Terry »

Quolls2019 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 1:01 pm
pussycat Mark 11 wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 12:38 pm Does anyone have any more on this story? its behind a paywall.


thtps://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news ... our=append
Is the AFL losing the great football war of western Sydney?
It was former Australian Rugby League chief executive Geoff Carr who once warned the AFL its push into western Sydney could be its Vietnam War.
“It is a huge risk for the AFL and a lot of people say it will be their Vietnam,” Carr said in 2009. “If they want to fight out there, that is their call.”
Thirteen years on, the Giants are languishing at 15th on the ladder and coach Leon Cameron has walked away from the job. Statistics show the GWS Giants are yet to make solid inroads into western Sydney’s sporting heartland of Parramatta, with participation figures leaked to The Weekend Australian showing just 1 per cent of participants in the area are playing Australian football, while TV ratings and crowd figures this season have, at times, been poor.
Despite an estimated $200m poured into GWS over the past decade, a City of Parramatta report from March shows AFL is the least popular of the 11 sports listed on a pie chart.
It shows AFL’s formal participation in the City of Parramatta — a home local government area of the Giants — is at 1 per cent of nearly 20,000 participants (senior and junior).
Meanwhile, tackle rugby league makes up 7 per cent. But when combined with the game’s other formats of touch football (11 per cent) and OzTag (6 per cent), the NRL holds a 24 per cent cut of participation figures.
Rugby league is the second-most popular sport behind soccer, which has a 47 per cent share of participation.
The Giants insist that despite these Parramatta statistics, the AFL figures truly show the growth of the game in western Sydney — with participation community football and Auskick doubling since 2012 in the area.
The AFL NSW/ACT has secured seven new AFL facilities in western Sydney since 2019 and facilitated upgrades for 13 existing club homes in the past 10 years.
AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan told The Weekend Australian the Giants were an irrefutable success story for the code.
“The Giants have unquestionably been a success story for our game and in the broader Australian sporting landscape with three teams across men’s and women’s elite sport and while they have reached great heights on-field, they have also continued to expand their footprint at an extraordinary rate,” he said.
“Given the base the club has built in new territory in just 11 years, there is no doubt it is going to be a very powerful and large club attracting generations of fans for decades to come.”
GWS boss Dave Matthews pointed out the Giants just ticked over 30,000 members. “By any metric, the Giants’ growth since entering the AFL just a decade ago has been remarkable,” he said. “As an organisation with over 30,000 members and three elite teams under the Giants brand our footprint in NSW and the ACT is vast.”
The AFL does not make participation numbers public but it was reported last week that the participation rates for boys aged 10-18 were down by 11.7 per cent in NSW (and just under 6 per cent in Victoria this year). The AFL attributed the fall in participation to the impact of Covid-19 on young people playing sport, while they also said the floods earlier this year had hurt NSW’s participation in junior footy.
Former long-time Sydney Swans chair Richard Colless — who in 1997 co-authored the review of the development of Australian Football in NSW/ACT and chaired the NSW/ACT Commission comprised exclusively of local members — has a deep knowledge of pathways, growing the game and what it takes to make a football club in Sydney successful.
Colless says while participation has risen across Sydney since 2000 it hasn’t converted to the elite level.
He noted the GWS players from NSW are almost entirely from regional NSW and the ACT.
Colless, who helmed the Swans for 21 years overseeing two AFL premierships, says area from the Illawarra (Wollongong) to the Hunter (Newcastle), where 27 per cent of the Australian population lives, has yet to be capitalised on by the AFL.
Colless says the statistics show the AFL hasn’t been able to cut into this rugby league talent belt and pointed out while there were 80 players added to senior lists this year (national draft and rookie elevations) none were from this area.
“The AFL seem oblivious or indifferent to this fact,” Colless said. “The AFL has a national competition but not a national game.”
He said the Parramatta council statistics were a concern — but of greater concern is the powerful Australian Rugby League chair Peter V’landys’s play to secure $800m from the NSW Government for redeveloping suburban grounds.
“This is the world rugby league heartland and I fear the AFL may have massively underestimated the power and craftiness of rugby league,” Colless said.
“I reckon if all suburban grounds are materially upgraded and with no draft it will lead to greater local links being created. It will be back to the good old days.”
Colless has empathy for the Giants’ situation and intricately understands the cost of living pressures and in turn the challenge to retain players and staff in Sydney. He constantly advocated for more player assistance for the NSW-based clubs — with his experience of overseeing the West Coast Eagles and the Swans.
Colless believes the AFL should seriously consider restructuring the administration of the game in the NSW and ACT and revive a local commission.
He also said with Rugby Australia this week securing the World Cup for 2027 and 2029, there was more competition in the Sydney market. “Rugby has still got some aces up their sleeve,” Colless said. “Sydney is the most competitive football market in the world. Tell me where else there are four main football codes competing for primacy?”
The Giants, who entered the competition in 2012, have struggled recently with crowd numbers and television figures this year — just 24,000 in Sydney tuned in for one game this season.
While the AFL boasts an extraordinary 1 million members across the code, the Giants state they have over a 30,000-strong membership base, however competing codes have privately scoffed at the figure. Critics have pointed to the small crowds currently turning up for the games. One source noted there hadn’t been a sold-out a game in Sydney since 2018.
The Giants can attract crowds of around 25,000 to their derby against the Swans. But just 4014 turned up for the game against the Gold Coast Suns last month.
Like Colless said, if V’landys is successful in his push for an $800m investment in suburban NRL grounds, this could be a problem for the AFL.
GWS bosses repeatedly maintain the franchise is here to stay. That dipping crowds and ratings are something to overcome as they play the “long game”.
In 2018, GWS chair Tony Shepherd told the Herald Sun Carr’s barb about the Vietnam had driven him and others within his administration to make the club successful.
“I’m not the smartest guy in the world, but I tell you what, I’m one of the most determined and that inspired me to say, ‘I’ll make you eat those words, and if I have to wait 20 years to make you eat them, we will get there,” Shepherd said.
Events are showing the years to come might be the most defining in the sporting war for western Sydney.
Two interesting points from this article: "The Giants just ticked over 30,000 members". There is not a sane person in the known world who believes they have 30k paying members. It's absolute and utter bald faced lying. Continuing with this line just shows the contempt they show the Sydney market. I mean do they actually expect people to believe this?

And, "The AFL does not make participation numbers public." I presume they mean in Sydney. They used to spruik all sorts of over-stated over exaggerated BS numbers for years. I suggest that after the embarrassment of the Lawson report, that exposed the lies, they've decided they can't get away with it anymore.

And then of course there was the lying about AFL 'participation' numbers in the inner west in attempt to take over Birchgrove Oval. Yep, they lied to the local council, got found out, and were frog marched outta the joint.

The common thread here is the lies, obfuscation and BS of fumble folk in Australia's greatest city. It would seem however that the worm has turned. They've been found out. The emperor has no clothes. And the Ginats have been exposed for what they are. A plastic club living on the whim of fumblehouse in an area that couldn't care less about 'em!!!!

I'd say kick the planks out to Canberra. What a fit! A plastic club in a plastic town. You heard it here first!


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by truthbomber »

Fred wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 9:31 am Surprised RL/OzTag and Touch when combined had participation was so low 24 percent- but agree - Aussie Rules is struggling in Western Sydney - well it always struggled - but GWS doesn't seem to have had the impact it wanted - reminiscent of the early days of the Swans - they need to get out of Canberra I believe as a first step - locals aren't buying into the team.
:hmm:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :(/ :(/ :(/ :(/

you're surprised RL & its variants have 24% of players , yet not surprised the fumbles & derps has only 1% :rofl: :rofl: :(/ :(/

1%
geez 8-[ , tiddly winx has more participants & they didn't spend 200 million plus on trying to convince people fumbling & missing is fun :lol: :lol:

RL the contact version is hard to play so & has a reputation for being unsafe ( unfairly , the moderated versions are quite safe ) but it is still shitting on fumble ball for players ... thats just players .
& soccer , who spent $4 on promotion in western sydney ( thats all they could afford :lol: ) is so far ahead its not funny , but .. no one can care less about its domestic comp , its easy & safe to play & thats the only reason it is in big numbers.

RL rules Western Sydney with an iron fist
the aflol were warned , but being the arrogant tools they are , ploughed ahead.
you reap what you sow
for the aflol in Western Sydney

thats a big fat nothing :cool:


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by Fred »

Rl on its own only had 7 percent which I was surprised about.


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

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Fred wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:09 pm Rl on its own only had 7 percent which I was surprised about.
Rules Western Sydney with a disposable glove?


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

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Fred wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 7:09 pm Rl on its own only had 7 percent which I was surprised about.
again for our slow witted fumblers

RL , its full contact version is a hard game to play , demanding & has an unearnt reputation as being unsafe & where you will get hurt
but
it is the only sport Western Sydneysiders.. in fact thats most of Sydney tbh
give an F about
the ...Only... sport they want to watch

soccer .. phhtt please
union .. :lol:

basketball , yep .. making a few inroads but generally speaking a pup compared to RL

the derps & misses ... are you mad ? :hmm: :(/ :(/ :(/ :(/ :(/ :(/
1% folks
1.. % :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by truthbomber »

RL is the NFL in its heartland

a hugely popular sport
but not played by big numbers because its just too hard to play

but
it kicks the ever loving shit out of all its opponents ... ALL of them :cool:


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by leeroy*NRL* »

sporting numbers for Rugby Codes have and always will be low to other sports.
and it is not hard to realize why..


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by Fred »

which I guess the AFL feels creates a market to explore and mine.
These users liked the author Fred for the post:
Quolls2019 (Wed May 18, 2022 4:59 pm)


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Re: GWS / SUNS >> How much more dollars

Post by truthbomber »

Fred wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 3:42 pm which I guess the AFL feels creates a market to explore and mine.
you don't think soccer had the same idea dopey ?
Has it assisted that sport ?

when will you mongs get it
just because skinny little white noodle armed boys in NSW /ACT , QLD don shorts 3 sizes too small for them , & fumble, bumble & miss doesn't mean they would be caught having anything to do with that rubbish any other time.

Nope its the NRL for them as the figures clearly show :cool:


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