Talking Footy

[quote="Crikey"]AFL commits to Gold Coast future
By Ross Stapleton
Published: 24 May 2005
http://crikey.com.au/articles/2005/05/24-1130-7855.html

The AFL Commission has responded to the threat of Rugby League expansion on the Gold Coast by making some significant plans for its own fixtures on the Coast from next season; but more significantly promoting a 10 year-plan with the end game ideally being a Gold Coast-based team in the league.

However, I understand any suggestion of a 17th expansion club is not on the commission agenda, so that means ultimately a relocated Melbourne club – but which one? Would you believe that one whisper suggests that the most likely name for eventual export to Queensland is – Melbourne FC!

Today the Gold Coast City Council confirmed it has been made a firm offer by the commission with the promise of bigger things to come when it promised that next season it is prepared to schedule two Wizard Cup pre-season games on the coast, and two regular season games. If this eventuates, the AFL will then review the success of these games with a view to hopefully continuing a similar schedule for following seasons. This news will be welcome by some and resented by others given the Gold Coast public is thought to be split roughly on 50-50 lines between Rugby League and AFL devotees in any head-to-head popularity poll.

There is no question that the Commonwealth Games early season occupation of the MCG in 2006 has now provided the AFL with the perfect opportunity to significantly test the waters for AFL in the country's fastest growing region. These games can determine once and for all just how successful the league can be before it; or the council and Queensland Government has to commit longer term to any multi-million Carrara redevelopment. But now the AFL has spelt out exactly how it is ready, willing and able to come to the Gold Coast in 2006, it has thrown down the gauntlet for the council to hopefully push ahead with plans for a Robina location for Rugby League, while keeping its options open for both AFL and international cricket at Carrara.

By far the most significant decision flagged by the commission in its commitment to the Gold Coast as a key future development market, is this offer in its letter to the council.

“If as envisaged these AFL matches prove successful, it is the AFL's intention to commit to a similar number of AFL matches at Carrara in future years. This would form part of the AFL's 10 year growth strategy for south-east Queensland, which may ultimately involve the introduction of a Gold Coast based AFL club into the AFL competition.â€

A bad move by the AFL with tv ratings abysmal when compared to league in brisbane, and with the lions sinking towards the bottom of the ladder i just cant see the appeal there. Perhaps a second team in sydney would have been a smarter move. As a follower of the AFL i am pretty worried about this decision

King-Eliagh wrote:

A bad move by the AFL with tv ratings abysmal when compared to league in brisbane, and with the lions sinking towards the bottom of the ladder i just cant see the appeal there. Perhaps a second team in sydney would have been a smarter move. As a follower of the AFL i am pretty worried about this decision

What do you mean KE? The TV ratings have continued to please Channel 10.

I want a Gold Coast and Western Sydney team in the AFL. Please, sooner rather than later. [-o<

SMH wrote:

AFL plans matches on Gold Coast
May 24, 2005 - 8:19PM
http://www.smh.com.au/news/Sport/AFL-pl ... 07563.html

The AFL has taken the first step towards working its 2006 fixture around the unavailable MCG, with two home-and-away matches set to be held on the Gold Coast next year.

With the MCG out of commission for the first six rounds of the AFL season because of post-Commonwealth Games work, AFL football will return to Carrara for the first time since 1992 when Brisbane quit the Coast for the Gabba.

As well as extra matches at Melbourne's other AFL venue - Telstra Dome - Geelong, Launceston, Darwin, Hobart and Sydney may also come into contention for more AFL matches early in 2006 because of the MCG's unavailability.

AFL executive Ben Buckley said the league would begin its formal three-month fixture process next month by writing to all clubs to gather their fixture requests.

But he confirmed the league had already made contact with the Gold Coast City Council, saying it would schedule two home-and-away games and two pre-season matches at Carrara next year, subject to improvements being made to the ground.

Both parties are keen to make matches at Carrara an annual event.

"The full detail of those matches and venue relocations is still to be determined, but the AFL has written to the Gold Coast City Council and said we are prepared to play two home and away premiership games at Carrara," Buckley said.

"The ground would also host a Wizard Home Loans Cup match and a Wizard Regional Challenge match during the pre-season."

The AFL says the home-and-away matches scheduled for Carrara would be games which otherwise would have been played at the MCG and has ruled out any Brisbane home games being moved to the Coast.

It will now ask Melbourne clubs if they are interested in playing in one of the Carrara matches.

Buckley said the AFL would help fund the required improvements to upgrade Carrara Stadium - and is believed to have $1 million set aside to do so.

"South-east Queensland is a key growth area and the AFL was delighted with the success of the Wizard Regional Challenge match played earlier this year, which saw a capacity crowd of more than 16,000," he said.

Improvements will include better floodlighting and a surface upgrade - with the Gold Coast City Council confirming it would make the necessary upgrade to Carrara.

Gold Coast Mayor Ron Clarke said it was hoped the move would help boost the chance of an AFL team based on the Gold Coast.

"The AFL has told council if next year's matches prove successful, it's the AFL's intention to commit to a similar number of matches at Carrara Stadium in future years," Clarke said.

"This would form part of the AFL's 10-year growth strategy for south-east Queensland which may ultimately involve the introduction of a Gold Coast-based club into the AFL."

Any work at Carrara would also benefit the Gold Coast's bid for entry into the National Rugby League.

The Gold Coast is hoping to become the NRL's 16th team for the start of the 2007 competition. If successful, the team will play at Carrara in 2007 before moving to a purpose-built rugby league venue at Robina on the central Gold Coast from 2008.

Carrara will definately stay oval shaped it seems. Good work AFL HQ. So much for the AFL being locked out of the Gold Coast without a new stadium being built hey Dizzys. :P

Although I feel this is all just a rushed response to the NRL from AFL HQ, at least they have put forward some sort of long-term plan.

Beaussie, if Carrara ends up being the long-term venue for a Gold Coast NRL team, it would effectively shut out AFL for the foreseeable future. However, AFL aside I actually would prefer the Robina site and always have. The reasons from this range from it's centralised postion amongst Gold Coast businesses, to space for further development such as a League's Club, to proximity to public transport which will link the new stadium to Brisbane and surrounds.

To be honest, Carrara cannot match any of these.

Either way, a decision is yet to be made on the long term venue for the Gold Coast NRL team. Part of the condition of inclusion is that the feild be purpose built for Rugby League, in other words permanently rectangular. Robina will be ideal and will probably cost less than to redevelop Carrara, due to demolishing costs. But land and ownership issues have arisen which is stalling the decision. With the announcement of the 16th NRL team to come as early as this week, you would think that those issues should be sorted soon though.

The AFL have put their case forward (finally!). Now they'll have to sweat on the decision of Rugby League's long-term venue.

Dizzys_on_fire wrote:

Beaussie, if Carrara ends up being the long-term venue for a Gold Coast NRL team, it would effectively shut out AFL for the foreseeable future.

I would think Gold Coast City Council will now commit to a redeveloped multi-purpose stadium now that the AFL is also willing to chip in funds. That would be the best result for the people of the Gold Coast I would think. A first class facility for AFL, Cricket, NRL, Rugby and Soccer.

Dizzys_on_fire wrote:

However, AFL aside I actually would prefer the Robina site and always have. The reasons from this range from it's centralised postion amongst Gold Coast businesses, to space for further development such as a League's Club, to proximity to public transport which will link the new stadium to Brisbane and surrounds.

To be honest, Carrara cannot match any of these.

Fair enough. Not knowing the area myself, is there no available land around Carrara for a leagues club?

Dizzys_on_fire wrote:

Either way, a decision is yet to be made on the long term venue for the Gold Coast NRL team. Part of the condition of inclusion is that the feild be purpose built for Rugby League, in other words permanently rectangular.

Surely the NRL will accept a multi-purpose stadium with moveable seating. Would seem strange if that wasn't the case considering Telstra Stadium in Sydney is.

Dizzys_on_fire wrote:

Robina will be ideal and will probably cost less than to redevelop Carrara, due to demolishing costs. But land and ownership issues have arisen which is stalling the decision. With the announcement of the 16th NRL team to come as early as this week, you would think that those issues should be sorted soon though.

I would have thought the best result for the people of the Gold Coast would be to have a multi-purpose redeveloped Carrara. All codes can then be accommodated.

Dizzys_on_fire wrote:

The AFL have put their case forward (finally!). Now they'll have to sweat on the decision of Rugby League's long-term venue.

Yes, it's taken a while for the AFL to come forward, but the fact that are willing to commit to the Gold Coast with a long term plan and funding surely demonstrates they are serious and the Gold Coast City Council would be crazy to build a rectangular venue at Carrara that would effectively lock out the AFL and Cricket. Wouldn't you agree?

Dizzys_on_fire wrote:

However, AFL aside I actually would prefer the Robina site and always have. The reasons from this range from it's centralised postion amongst Gold Coast businesses, to space for further development such as a League's Club, to proximity to public transport which will link the new stadium to Brisbane and surrounds.

To be honest, Carrara cannot match any of these.

Surely you're joking dizzys? Robina central to Gold Coast businesses? Get a map and see where it's located. Robina is too far south on the coast to matter - the northern end of the Coast (Southport, Surfers, Broadbeach) is where 70% of the businesses are.

Clearly Carrara is much closer to the area that matters - only being 5 minutes drive from the heart of Surfers or 3 minutes from Broadbeach. You wouldn't make a real estate agent dizzys - you'd be selling lots in Macquarie Fields to affluent investors and sprouting its proximity to the Blue Mountains as its main appeal!

Also, whilst there is a rail link at Robina, there is also the same line at both Nerang and Helensvale Stations (both within 2 km of the ground with an effective bus network operating out of both stations!)

Also, have you ever been to Robina? It's a friggin ex-landfill site with seepage and slips occurring regularly. Ask a few builders in the area about it and they will give you the drill!

Come on dizzys - get real. And Beaussie and I are still waiting for your response (pre- server crash!) about your true identity!

I disagree Crocodileman that using Carrara would be more advantageous, obvioulsy our opinions differ.

http://www.goldcoastaustralia.com/103177.php

Robina is centred around the 2.5 billion dollar Robina Town Centre, as well as the adjacent Varsity Lakes community and Bond University. This emerging development is a key regional centre and the hub of international business on the Gold Coast, including many IT companies.

The well established Robina community and its significant infrastructure of: regional shopping centre, rail link, school, hospitals, taverns, golf courses, bowls club, sporting facilities, public transport and retirement villages are at your doorstep.

As I understand it, the sites you have mentioned have no revelvance to the site in discussion for a new Gold Coast stadium. They are isolated from the central Robina and the highway. I'll be happy to concede if shown that this is not the case.

On to the second point of your post. Strangley enough, I gave a response to suggestions of me being some sort of "antagonist", as you put it, to Beaussie at the League Unlimited website, as well as other accusations and questions. Yet, as you're obviously aware, posts were lost for that day.

A week on though, I really don't know why I bothered to reply in the end. However, I did outline how I cam across this site, and I admitted to not explaining in full exactly how that happened (Trough "The Front Row Forums", I am a registered member of that forum, but not a poster). But I did that for what I feel was for understandable reasons. Those reasons being a fear for what I am being subjected to right now after being aware of attacks that happen on members and non-members of this forum. Yes, I do read Fan v Fan.

I am, and have been relecutant to post in The Fight Club (Fan v Fan) sub-forum since making by first posts here. But I have browsed that particular forum many times, and so I do know what goes on there and what has happened to past and present Talking Footy members as well as a certain clique or group from the Leagueunlimited website, which used to be mentioned often in "Fan v Fan". Personally, I don't entirely approve of it. But this isn't my forum, so out of respect to other members, I simply do not post there.

Put simply, I failed to reviel where I searched and found links to this forum is because of the above. Fear of ridicule, scruntiny, members questioning my personality, as well as my validity as a genuine poster.

So I strongly protest and disagree with those particular sentiments of Crocodileman in his post prior to the site crash. I will admit to not being entirely honest about how I found this site, but I do not appreciate my "identity" being attacked, questioned and scrutinised in a public forum.

Grill me how you please, but do not expect me to fight back "Fan v Fan" style.

Hope that answers some of the questions that members wanted answered

Dizzys_on_fire wrote:

I disagree Crocodileman that using Carrara would be more advantageous, obvioulsy our opinions differ.

http://www.goldcoastaustralia.com/103177.php

Robina is centred around the 2.5 billion dollar Robina Town Centre, as well as the adjacent Varsity Lakes community and Bond University. This emerging development is a key regional centre and the hub of international business on the Gold Coast, including many IT companies.

The well established Robina community and its significant infrastructure of: regional shopping centre, rail link, school, hospitals, taverns, golf courses, bowls club, sporting facilities, public transport and retirement villages are at your doorstep.

As I understand it, the sites you have mentioned have no revelvance to the site in discussion for a new Gold Coast stadium. They are isolated from the central Robina and the highway. I'll be happy to concede if shown that this is not the case.

On to the second point of your post. Strangley enough, I gave a response to suggestions of me being some sort of "antagonist", as you put it, to Beaussie at the League Unlimited website, as well as other accusations and questions. Yet, as you're obviously aware, posts were lost for that day.

A week on though, I really don't know why I bothered to reply in the end. However, I did outline how I cam across this site, and I admitted to not explaining in full exactly how that happened (Trough "The Front Row Forums", I am a registered member of that forum, but not a poster). But I did that for what I feel was for understandable reasons. Those reasons being a fear for what I am being subjected to right now after being aware of attacks that happen on members and non-members of this forum. Yes, I do read Fan v Fan.

I am, and have been relecutant to post in The Fight Club (Fan v Fan) sub-forum since making by first posts here. But I have browsed that particular forum many times, and so I do know what goes on there and what has happened to past and present Talking Footy members as well as a certain clique or group from the Leagueunlimited website, which used to be mentioned often in "Fan v Fan". Personally, I don't entirely approve of it. But this isn't my forum, so out of respect to other members, I simply do not post there.

Put simply, I failed to reviel where I searched and found links to this forum is because of the above. Fear of ridicule, scruntiny, members questioning my personality, as well as my validity as a genuine poster.

So I strongly protest and disagree with those particular sentiments of Crocodileman in his post prior to the site crash. I will admit to not being entirely honest about how I found this site, but I do not appreciate my "identity" being attacked, questioned and scrutinised in a public forum.

Grill me how you please, but do not expect me to fight back "Fan v Fan" style.

Hope that answers some of the questions that members wanted answered

Dizzys - on the website you have used as evidence of Robina's credentials for a football stadium I would argue that it is tenuous at best and just a persuasive piece of writing aiming to influence investors at worst!

The Robina Town Centre development is certainly a good shopping centre and Varsity Lakes - well Town Houses have come up as quick as mushrooms in a dark, damp place. However to suggest that it is the hub of international business lacks even the remotest level of credibility.

Clearly, the biggest, most impressive and expensive shopping centre on the Coast is Pacific Fair at Broadbeach, less than 2 km from Carrara Stadium and directly linked by bus. It makes Robina Town Centre look like a corner takeaway shop! This is not to mention other shopping centres such as Australia Fair at Southport and Harbour Town at Labrador that are in closer proximity to Carrara and further disprove your theory about Robina being where all the "action" is!

I wouldn't have thought that the Chinese and affluent Asian students enrolled at Bond University would fit the working class rugby league demographic, nor would they be regular attendees at games. I know the area very well and I can tell you that the hub for international business that the site claims is all around Robina would be limited to a few international lecturers in the business faculty at the university putting a Lotto Systems 7 in for Saturday night!

Anyone who knows the Gold Coast knows that the shopping, retail, tourist and financial hub of the city is at the northern end of the Coast - not the central/southern end, where Robina is located. You can post all the biased websites you like Dizzys, and I can give you alternative sites to challenge yours. Clearly though, all of the facilities/services you claim are offered at Robina are offered in a greater quantum and quality at the northern end of the coast!

Your claims that both the Helensvale and Nerang Train Stations are remote to Carrara are also wrong - both are linked to Carrara by bus and Nerang Station is situated adjacent to Nerang Broadbeach Road - the same road where the Carrara Stadium is situated, and less than 3 km for the stadium.

Now, on your second point about your "credentials" I would just say that you shouldn't be too precious about it! No one is having a go at you personally and the comments were made by me in jest. Even if you were one of Beaussie's protagonists at League Unlimited I would have more respect for you for joining and engaging in debate! In part, this was one of the reasons why this site was set up.

I apologise if you took offence to the comments, however I believe that you had become more openly resistant to some of Beaussie's posts baiting league in recent weeks than you may have been 5 months ago! I, in my inimitable style, was just highlighting your change of tactics.

In any event, I enjoy your informative and well constructed posts (this topic excluded) and someone is required on this site to be Beaussie's lie detector - he has a nasty habit of being forgetful and dismissive of facts - I know this from personal experience.

Be prepared, however, to be attacked by me for defending a code that is clearly on the slide! And if you are someone like JW et. al. from League Unlimited, please feel free to 'out' yourself at your leisure!

crocodileman wrote:

In any event, I enjoy your informative and well constructed posts (this topic excluded) and someone is required on this site to be Beaussie's lie detector - he has a nasty habit of being forgetful and dismissive of facts - I know this from personal experience.

Whatever, sure I've misinterpreted data in the past, but I've always apologised when it has been pointed out. Clearly the majority of the time though my posts are spot on.

crocodileman wrote:

Dizzys - on the website you have used as evidence of Robina's credentials for a football stadium I would argue that it is tenuous at best and just a persuasive piece of writing aiming to influence investors at worst!

The Robina Town Centre development is certainly a good shopping centre and Varsity Lakes - well Town Houses have come up as quick as mushrooms in a dark, damp place. However to suggest that it is the hub of international business lacks even the remotest level of credibility.

Well, apart from available vacant land, the City Council and the Gold Coast bid team have eyed off the area partly due a word that you've used in your post: development. No quotes handy at present, but Mr. Michael Searle from the bid committee believes that Robina, as a rapidly growing business hub with a booming residential population within the Gold Coast council area, would be ideal for a new stadium for those reasons.

But clearly, judging by your thoughts on this issue, you see to come across as saying that the Robina option is probably overrated. Fair comment?

Is Searle taking us all for a ride on the pro's of Robina?

crocodileman wrote:

Clearly, the biggest, most impressive and expensive shopping centre on the Coast is Pacific Fair at Broadbeach, less than 2 km from Carrara Stadium and directly linked by bus. It makes Robina Town Centre look like a corner takeaway shop! This is not to mention other shopping centres such as Australia Fair at Southport and Harbour Town at Labrador that are in closer proximity to Carrara and further disprove your theory about Robina being where all the "action" is!

Agreed, now that you put it that way.

crocodileman wrote:

I can tell you that the hub for international business that the site claims is all around Robina would be limited to a few international lecturers in the business faculty at the university putting a Lotto Systems 7 in for Saturday night!

crocodileman wrote:

Your claims that both the Helensvale and Nerang Train Stations are remote to Carrara are also wrong - both are linked to Carrara by bus and Nerang Station is situated adjacent to Nerang Broadbeach Road - the same road where the Carrara Stadium is situated, and less than 3 km for the stadium.

A misunderstanding here. I was referring to...

It's a friggin ex-landfill

...not the Rail/Bus interchanges, which I am aware exist and have used in the past (A couple of years ago must admit).

My understanding is that the location of the new stadium at Robina would be much closer to it's local railway station than Carrara and further south to the location quoted above.

crocdileman wrote:

]Now, on your second point about your "credentials" I would just say that you shouldn't be too precious about it! No one is having a go at you personally and the comments were made by me in jest.

Well thankyou for making that clear for me. It's just that I am aware of what has been said on this forum in the past and although that may have been in jest as well, I didn't see it that way at the time. So when I felt that I was now the one to be grilled on this forum, I wanted to make it clear that I wouldn't have a bar of it.

crocodileman wrote:

Even if you were one of Beaussie's antagonists at League Unlimited I would have more respect for you for joining and engaging in debate! In part, this was one of the reasons why this site was set up.

As I stated in my previous post, and my post prior to the site crash, I am not one of Beaussie's antagonists from that website. I'm flattered that you would respect me in any instance, but I can assure you that I do not fit such a description.

I have admitted to not telling the whole series of events which lead to me finding links to this site, which in the end was through a thread on The Front Forums, but my involvment with that site stretches no further than being a non-posting registered member seeking football information and alternative opinion.

crocdileman wrote:

I apologise if you took offence to the comments, however I believe that you had become more openly resistant to some of Beaussie's posts baiting league in recent weeks than you may have been 5 months ago! I, in my inimitable style, was just highlighting your change of tactics.

I am not aware how a change in tactics, as you put it, would automatically link me to being a "Beaussie antagonist" on completely different website. But then again my understanding of the obvious differences you and these "antagonists" hold is quite limited compared to yourself and others here.

crocodileman wrote:

In any event, I enjoy your informative and well constructed posts (this topic excluded) and someone is required on this site to be Beaussie's lie detector - he has a nasty habit of being forgetful and dismissive of facts - I know this from personal experience.

I didn't really notice until the ratings threads appeared, to be honest. Are you suggesting that this is common and some what deliberate from Beaussie?

crocodileman wrote:

Be prepared, however, to be attacked by me for defending a code that is clearly on the slide! And if you are someone like JW et. al. from League Unlimited, please feel free to 'out' yourself at your leisure!

A code on the slide? You consider AFL to be on a slide?

Anyway, I have no problem at all for my posts, research or opinion to be disproven or opposed. That is what discussion is all about.

Personally though, I don't appreciate being attacked in a personal sense unprovoked on a public forum, which I felt was happening. In this case, I also didn't feel comfortable being brought from the outside into a pre-existing duel with some other people from another forum Fan v Fan style.

I realise that some members here feel differently, and that they have been provided a sub-forum for that. I respect that, and to show that respect I simply refrain from posting in that forum and mind my own business.

I do apologise to you and Beaussie for any unnecessary statements that I may have made in my previous post or the post I made prior to the server crash, if anyone actually read it.

In hindsight, I could've avoided this if I had been completely truthful months ago when asked how I found Talking Footy, but as I said I feared similar treatment that I witnessed others receive, particularly if they were linked or suspected to be linked in any way to the League Unlimited site.

Well that'll do from me. This is by far the longest post i've ever made

8,000 today for the big game...


I don't feel so embarrassed about the fact that the NRL only got 7,000 in Adelaide last night, but at least we are not trying to force a team to locate to Adelaide..

They'd be stupid to try to put a thugby leege team in mulletania as the only thing going for the place is that it is in the 3rd best footy state & the mulletonians would not waste their time watching a game whose highlights almost match the boring moments of Australian footy.

There is no immeadiate plans to put a team in Adelaide Brainiac...

However as the title of this thread says, the AFL are committing to a team on the GC,yet only 8,000 people ( probably half were Melbourne turds on holiday..) bothered to turn up to watch this embarrassment....

Leave the Kangaroos and Demons and Bulldogs in Melbourne where at least they have 20,000 inbred toothless fans...

Just out of curiousity Willis, why do you dislike Melbournians so much? Their disregard for rugby legue and the Melbourne Storm perhaps?