Talking Footy

Firstly do you believe in climate change and the science?

Now, what is the best course of action our politicians should take considering both major parties say they believe in climate change and the need for action? Labor, Greens and the Independents suggest a carbon tax before moving to a market based ETS where the big polluters pay and compensate households.

The Coalition on the other hand promotes direct action where taxpayers fund big polluters. Meanwhile, no credible economists thinks direct action will work in actually reducing carbon emissons.

So who do you support?

First - I do believe in climate change and the science.

Second - I don't believe for one second that the Coalition are believers. Turnbull might be, but Abbott definitely isn't.

As far as what to do is concerned, the immediate issue is how to reduce carbon emissions. The emitters need to understand that they have to change, and unfortunately some of them need to be forced to. However a carbon tax won't do it because all they'll do is pass the tax on to consumers, which they have a right to do. On the other hand, if the government were to promote it as a carbon FINE - that would alter matters. If I remember my constitutional law rightly, if you get fined you CAN'T pass the expense on (a tax you can). I would call that more effective because then they HAVE to reduce emissions to avoid it.

Direct action is a Coalition cop out and a purely populist political tactic.

So at present I lean towards the government, but it has to be changed from a tax to a fine.

Wow, you've studied law TLPG?

Agree with you that direct action is a cop out and a populist political tactic. Interesting that even Malcolm Turnbull thinks it wont work and will cost taxpayers millions/billions in the years ahead compensating big polluters whilst also not meeting targets of cutting emissions.

I haven't studied it. It was just something I've come across - and I admit that it might not be correct.

I do however have a bit of experience in law. I've run a few cases in court - self represented. Had a few early losses, but more recently I scored a win in an Internet stalking issue, and a defamation action. I've got another Def Action in progress at the moment. Just this morning I have to get a bank cheque to pay for the service of more documents.

Am so over this debate and wish they would just take some action rather than blah blahing about it all for 6 months or longer.

King-Eliagh wrote:

Am so over this debate and wish they would just take some action rather than blah blahing about it all for 6 months or longer.

Why don't you fucking get elected and do something about it then?

I'm a King, not a politician!

Bow you filthy deranged cousin of turnip

I asked elsewhere who TLPG was so I looked through the other boards and I found this thread. I can safely say that I disagree with TLPG. We should not have a carbon tax or even a carbon fine. We should be going straight to an ETS. The plan that Kevin Rudd had on the table should never have been dropped.

I shall find other examples in which I disagree with the views of TLPG.

Also no Mr Eliagh you are not a King. You are a common man as we all are.

Climate Change is the Y2k of the 21st Century. Total bullshit. According to climate change believers, we would all be under water by now. Guess what, never happened.

Climate change isn't just about heat. It's about weather extremes. Storm activity in particular has been the worst in living memory. The cold snap in the United States is another example of climate change. You're thinking of global warming.

Foolproof wrote:

Climate change isn't just about heat. It's about weather extremes. Storm activity in particular has been the worst in living memory. The cold snap in the United States is another example of climate change. You're thinking of global warming.

Climate change is crap.
our omissions what we are letting out are at record levels is because the population is growing & we are becoming more reliant on technology, for all the crap the Coal industry cops in populating the great barrier reef, it has been proven, that farming & animal run off is the biggest polluters of the reef
our record temperatures, are not even matching the ones we had 50, 80 years ago.

before you convince me on climate change,
explain to me why the ozone layer hasn't burnt through yet, like it was going to do in the 90s & what ever happened to this thing called the greenhouse effect?. if the whole theory of climate change was real and countries were going to be drowned under by this rising water levels, wouldn't they at least try and change their main sources of power, dirty coal & oil to preserve life

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
a bit of watching for you conspiracy nuts!
greatest way to control some one is through fear

They called it global warming. Then found out global warming is not real so they conveniently changed it's name to climate change.
I don't agree with you on sport Leagueiscrap but your right on the money with with the climate change shit greenis try to feed the public. Well said mate.

leagueiscrap wrote:

before you convince me on climate change,
explain to me why the ozone layer hasn't burnt through yet, like it was going to do in the 90s & what ever happened to this thing called the greenhouse effect?. if the whole theory of climate change was real and countries were going to be drowned under by this rising water levels, wouldn't they at least try and change their main sources of power, dirty coal & oil to preserve life

The hole in the ozone layer was actually caused by chlorofluorocarbons - not global warming or climate change. When we started using hydrocarbons instead, the hole in ozone layer stopped growing. Last I heard it was actually closing.

What you are labelling climate change there is actually global warning - which as you rightly say doesn't exist. Climate change is weather extremes, which also includes extreme cold (the US has recently sat through the coldest snap on record) and also extremes in storms and tornados. The number of storms worldwide is at record levels, and their ferocity is increasing.

The reason why governments maintain coal and oil is because it's cheap. Green energy is more expensive to create and maintain so to keep the prices at the same levels it has to be subsidised, and by quite a lot.

Foolproof wrote:

leagueiscrap wrote:

before you convince me on climate change,
explain to me why the ozone layer hasn't burnt through yet, like it was going to do in the 90s & what ever happened to this thing called the greenhouse effect?. if the whole theory of climate change was real and countries were going to be drowned under by this rising water levels, wouldn't they at least try and change their main sources of power, dirty coal & oil to preserve life

The hole in the ozone layer was actually caused by chlorofluorocarbons - not global warming or climate change. When we started using hydrocarbons instead, the hole in ozone layer stopped growing. Last I heard it was actually closing.

What you are labelling climate change there is actually global warning - which as you rightly say doesn't exist. Climate change is weather extremes, which also includes extreme cold (the US has recently sat through the coldest snap on record) and also extremes in storms and tornados. The number of storms worldwide is at record levels, and their ferocity is increasing.

The reason why governments maintain coal and oil is because it's cheap. Green energy is more expensive to create and maintain so to keep the prices at the same levels it has to be subsidised, and by quite a lot.

we have always had extreme weather patterns, its only due to improved technology & social media connecting everyone around the world is making people more aware of them.

on green energy, wind and solar forms energy are the biggest con of the century

The_Wookie wrote:

they found out global warming wasnt real?

to a degree global warming is real, the temperature of the earth is heating up, due to the amount of oil that gets pumped out of the ground every day, the population of the earth is getting larger & people give out heat