Talking Footy

Been nice knowing ya intencity. Never has a TF member been reduced to dribble so quickly.

Neeeeeeexxxxt! :<>

King-Eliagh wrote:

Most rl players are not highly skilled at kicking but several are.

So the debate should end right here.
When you talk in generalisations it's assumed you are talking about the majority i.e. "most".

King-Eliagh wrote:

The halfback, among others, is generally an important kicker

Yes, a couple of players have some ability.

King-Eliagh wrote:

and highly skilled.

Not by AFL standards.

King-Eliagh wrote:

Almost all AFL players are highly skilled at the drop punt

Tell us something we don't know.

King-Eliagh wrote:

but tell me, can they kick an effective grubber

Really, you obviously have zero knowledge of AR.
A lot of goals nowadays are kicked end on end accurately, or required to "break" through the goals from the impossible angle - simply sensational stuff.
Any kid can grubber the ball forward.

King-Eliagh wrote:

or a spiral bomb ?

Where have you been all these years.
There torpedo spiral is the preferred long range kick.
The "bomb" is not generally required in AR but the ball is needed to be chipped or floated many a time to allow a player the time to run into space and mark the ball.

King-Eliagh wrote:

land the ball from a long down field kick on a point to make it bounce in a certain direction?

Don't you watch TV.
The TV commentators even call it "kicking for touch" these days. Even since they brought in the law "out-of-bounds-on-the-full" players have been kicking down the line close to the boundary. probably has reached epidemic proportions nowadays.

King-Eliagh wrote:

RL kickers require more creativity and a much larger reportoir of kicking skills ?

Than before. Still cannot do it very well. probably why they've brought in kicking coaches.

King-Eliagh wrote:

your average drop punt kicking AFL player.

Generally an AFL use the drop punt. he adjusts the angle, height and power to produce a combination of long or short and high or low. The checkside punt is now so common it's almost mandatory for an AFL to player to use when he cannot see daylight between the post. The torpedo has been used since before my time as the long distance scoring or clearing kick.
"Diacos" kicks are almost common these days. And of course the grubber kick is common these days . It's use is almost like lairising IMO.

I'll just notice King-Eliagh this once, and say that yet again he is showing he has never played either game. 95 percent drop punts indeed. AFL uses punts, bananas, torpedoes and torpedo punts and if you watch the EJ Whitten Legends game add drop kicks and stab passes. RL has nothing but punts.

cos789 wrote:

King-Eliagh wrote:

Most rl players are not highly skilled at kicking but several are.

So the debate should end right here.
When you talk in generalisations it's assumed you are talking about the majority i.e. "most".

King-Eliagh wrote:

The halfback, among others, is generally an important kicker

Yes, a couple of players have some ability.

King-Eliagh wrote:

and highly skilled.

Not by AFL standards.

King-Eliagh wrote:

Almost all AFL players are highly skilled at the drop punt

Tell us something we don't know.

King-Eliagh wrote:

but tell me, can they kick an effective grubber

Really, you obviously have zero knowledge of AR.
A lot of goals nowadays are kicked end on end accurately, or required to "break" through the goals from the impossible angle - simply sensational stuff.
Any kid can grubber the ball forward.

King-Eliagh wrote:

or a spiral bomb ?

Where have you been all these years.
There torpedo spiral is the preferred long range kick.
The "bomb" is not generally required in AR but the ball is needed to be chipped or floated many a time to allow a player the time to run into space and mark the ball.

King-Eliagh wrote:

land the ball from a long down field kick on a point to make it bounce in a certain direction?

Don't you watch TV.
The TV commentators even call it "kicking for touch" these days. Even since they brought in the law "out-of-bounds-on-the-full" players have been kicking down the line close to the boundary. probably has reached epidemic proportions nowadays.

King-Eliagh wrote:

RL kickers require more creativity and a much larger reportoir of kicking skills ?

Than before. Still cannot do it very well. probably why they've brought in kicking coaches.

King-Eliagh wrote:

your average drop punt kicking AFL player.

Generally an AFL use the drop punt. he adjusts the angle, height and power to produce a combination of long or short and high or low. The checkside punt is now so common it's almost mandatory for an AFL to player to use when he cannot see daylight between the post. The torpedo has been used since before my time as the long distance scoring or clearing kick.
"Diacos" kicks are almost common these days. And of course the grubber kick is common these days . It's use is almost like lairising IMO.

You have some fair points here cos, and I stand corrected on a few of them. However it still stands that drop punts are by far the most used kick in aussie rules. The grubber kick in AFL is used, but I would suggest you count how often compared to the drop punt. I'd say 1 in 10 or less. Torpedoes are used even less than this and never in a spiral bomb which requires more skill to land in a ten metre square. And you are unlikely to see more than 4 torps in a game anyway, dont you watch television? Have you played the game? Apart from that the banana kick you say? Again I say its used less than 10% of the time. And the "kicking for touch" kick you are referring to is very different to what blokes like benji marshall and chris sandow are doing on a regular basis. Spinning the ball in a particular manner to ensure the ball lands on one end as well as gets distance. I'm not sure what the kick is called but its not a simple banana.

Sure some AFL players can kick several styles of kick but not with the same degree of variety a good halfback in league has and not many AFL players can kick more than a drop punt with a high degree of skill.

Topper to suggest RL has nothing but drop punts is true to your form. Keep consistent buddy and learn from those computer games eh

King-Eliagh wrote:

cos789 wrote:

King-Eliagh wrote:

Most rl players are not highly skilled at kicking but several are.

So the debate should end right here.
When you talk in generalisations it's assumed you are talking about the majority i.e. "most".

King-Eliagh wrote:

The halfback, among others, is generally an important kicker

Yes, a couple of players have some ability.

King-Eliagh wrote:

and highly skilled.

Not by AFL standards.

King-Eliagh wrote:

Almost all AFL players are highly skilled at the drop punt

Tell us something we don't know.

King-Eliagh wrote:

but tell me, can they kick an effective grubber

Really, you obviously have zero knowledge of AR.
A lot of goals nowadays are kicked end on end accurately, or required to "break" through the goals from the impossible angle - simply sensational stuff.
Any kid can grubber the ball forward.

King-Eliagh wrote:

or a spiral bomb ?

Where have you been all these years.
There torpedo spiral is the preferred long range kick.
The "bomb" is not generally required in AR but the ball is needed to be chipped or floated many a time to allow a player the time to run into space and mark the ball.

King-Eliagh wrote:

land the ball from a long down field kick on a point to make it bounce in a certain direction?

Don't you watch TV.
The TV commentators even call it "kicking for touch" these days. Even since they brought in the law "out-of-bounds-on-the-full" players have been kicking down the line close to the boundary. probably has reached epidemic proportions nowadays.

King-Eliagh wrote:

RL kickers require more creativity and a much larger reportoir of kicking skills ?

Than before. Still cannot do it very well. probably why they've brought in kicking coaches.

King-Eliagh wrote:

your average drop punt kicking AFL player.

Generally an AFL use the drop punt. he adjusts the angle, height and power to produce a combination of long or short and high or low. The checkside punt is now so common it's almost mandatory for an AFL to player to use when he cannot see daylight between the post. The torpedo has been used since before my time as the long distance scoring or clearing kick.
"Diacos" kicks are almost common these days. And of course the grubber kick is common these days . It's use is almost like lairising IMO.

You have some fair points here cos, and I stand corrected on a few of them. However it still stands that drop punts are by far the most used kick in aussie rules. The grubber kick in AFL is used, but I would suggest you count how often compared to the drop punt. I'd say 1 in 10 or less. Torpedoes are used even less than this and never in a spiral bomb which requires more skill to land in a ten metre square. And you are unlikely to see more than 4 torps in a game anyway, dont you watch television? Have you played the game? Apart from that the banana kick you say? Again I say its used less than 10% of the time. And the "kicking for touch" kick you are referring to is very different to what blokes like benji marshall and chris sandow are doing on a regular basis. Spinning the ball in a particular manner to ensure the ball lands on one end as well as gets distance. I'm not sure what the kick is called but its not a simple banana.

Sure some AFL players can kick several styles of kick but not with the same degree of variety a good halfback in league has and not many AFL players can kick more than a drop punt with a high degree of skill.

Topper to suggest RL has nothing but drop punts is true to your form. Keep consistent buddy and learn from those computer games eh

Absolute rubbish.

Every AFL player needs to be able to kick a long high drop punt and a low short stab pass. These are different kicks.

Plus they need to be able to kick around the corner, both left to right but also right to left. Both are used around the ground, not just for a shot at goal.

The torpedo isn't used often in AFL because it is inaccurate. If all an AFL player had to do was kick it out of play they would use it more. But to kick the ball towards a team mate who has an opponent needs great accuracy, which a torpedo does not allow.

The grub kick is used more in the forward line or near the boundary line.

The biggest difference is that AFL players are required to use both sides of their body with equals accuracy.

While some NRL players may use greater variety this is only because the majority of kicks by AFL players require precision accuracy with limited risk. I guarantee the number if banana kicks, grubbers, snaps etc is still higher in an AFL game than a RL game because our game involves significantly more kicking.

King-Eliagh wrote:

drop punts are by far the most used kick in aussie rules.

No argument there. But there is no weight to you frequency argument.

King-Eliagh wrote:

The grubber kick in AFL is used, but I would suggest you count how often compared to the drop punt. I'd say 1 in 10 or less.

Much less, but it's still professionally executed.

King-Eliagh wrote:

Torpedoes are used even less

I'd dispute that, but it's irrelevant. Torpedos are professionally executed.

King-Eliagh wrote:

never in a spiral bomb

Not on purpose.

King-Eliagh wrote:

a spiral bomb which requires more skill to land in a ten metre square.

Bombs are kicked from close range and only need enough height for players to run in.
This is equivalent to a chip pass, used all the time in AFL to create the "loose"man.
A torpedo is generally used when the range excedes 50 metres (effectively a 60+m kick).
It requires power and precision to kick the ball, spiral the ball and make the distance in between the big sticks.
Because of the expertise required it is not used frequently as you suggest.

King-Eliagh wrote:

And the "kicking for touch" kick you are referring to is very different to what blokes like benji marshall and chris sandow are doing on a regular basis.

The difference is AFL players get a lot more distance when attempting the same thing.
Kicking for touch is one area where rl players could greatly improve.

King-Eliagh wrote:

I'm not sure what the kick is called but its not a simple banana.

They are not banana kicks. Reverse bananas or checkside kicks are used to benfd the ball through the goals.
Basically it is a kick gone wrong. You wouldn't use a banana kick to gain territory.
There was one guy from Souths that had the right the idea but they banned placekicking (for touch)because of him.

King-Eliagh wrote:

Sure some AFL players can kick several styles of kick but not with the same degree of variety a good halfback in league has and not many AFL players can kick more than a drop punt with a high degree of skill.

That really has given a good many people a good laugh.
If halhbacks or fullbacks(more likely) were that good we'd see them playing AFL.
I suggest you actually go and see a game of Australian Football.
That means live footy not TV.
GGo onto the ground.
The first thing you'll realise is that it's frigging huge.
Those rl kicks you see on TV that look good because they look as good as AFL kicks on TV are not anywhere as impressive live. A rl field is 100metres. An AFL is around 170 metres .
The action in rl is centred around the 22.
The action in AFL is centred around the 50metre arc.

Cos a lot of what you say is bleeding obvious to me, having played both sports. Again you make some decent points but they are off kilter. The one about AFL players kicking further is directly related to the weight and shape of the ball when comparing across codes, not the specialty skills of the kicker. I guarantee you, given a small amount of training many rugby league players in the halfback and five eightth positions could kick well beyond 60 metre AFL kicks. And fullbacks are not more likely than halfbacks to be league kickers you silly man, your knowledge of the game is minimal... aaaannd we've already seen a few league players convert to AFL and guess what? They weren't even regular or quality kickers in league! Havent seen any AFL players convert into the halfback position at top level RL for their kicking prowess though have we? All we have here is some dimwit coach at cronulla employing nic davis to essentially teach kicking skills he wouldnt have.

I stand by my point, AFL players excel with the use of the drop punt (the stab kick is simply a slight variation IMO) and variations of it and rarely use other kicks as you have agreed to above cos i.e. with the torps and grubbas. The halfback (generally this position although often the five eighth and hooker also) in league MUST use a wide variety of DIFFERENT kicks to be successful and hold their position at the top level. Sure an AFL player needs to be a great kick, and accurate and many (but by no means all like you suggest cos!) can use both feet effectively. But this doesnt mean they can kick a variety of kicks effectively. I stand solidly by my point, having played and watched both games often I know I'm...spot on

King-Eliagh wrote:

Cos a lot of what you say is bleeding obvious to me, having played both sports. Again you make some decent points but they are off kilter. The one about AFL players kicking further is directly related to the weight and shape of the ball when comparing across codes, not the specialty skills of the kicker. I guarantee you, given a small amount of training many rugby league players in the halfback and five eightth positions could kick well beyond 60 metre AFL kicks. And fullbacks are not more likely than halfbacks to be league kickers you silly man, your knowledge of the game is minimal... aaaannd we've already seen a few league players convert to AFL and guess what? They weren't even regular or quality kickers in league! Havent seen any AFL players convert into the halfback position at top level RL for their kicking prowess though have we? All we have here is some dimwit coach at cronulla employing nic davis to essentially teach kicking skills he wouldnt have.

I stand by my point, AFL players excel with the use of the drop punt (the stab kick is simply a slight variation IMO) and variations of it and rarely use other kicks as you have agreed to above cos i.e. with the torps and grubbas. The halfback (generally this position although often the five eighth and hooker also) in league MUST use a wide variety of DIFFERENT kicks to be successful and hold their position at the top level. Sure an AFL player needs to be a great kick, and accurate and many (but by no means all like you suggest cos!) can use both feet effectively. But this doesnt mean they can kick a variety of kicks effectively. I stand solidly by my point, having played and watched both games often I know I'm...spot on

AFL players average 20 kicks per game each. A percentage of those would be on either side of their body, long drop punts, low stab passes which are virtually a drop kick the contact is somlow, snap shots across their body, banana kicks away from their body. The forwards would also do a proportion of end on end grubbers.

Every player in the AFL kicks the ball, not just a select few.

Xman wrote:

King-Eliagh wrote:

Cos a lot of what you say is bleeding obvious to me, having played both sports. Again you make some decent points but they are off kilter. The one about AFL players kicking further is directly related to the weight and shape of the ball when comparing across codes, not the specialty skills of the kicker. I guarantee you, given a small amount of training many rugby league players in the halfback and five eightth positions could kick well beyond 60 metre AFL kicks. And fullbacks are not more likely than halfbacks to be league kickers you silly man, your knowledge of the game is minimal... aaaannd we've already seen a few league players convert to AFL and guess what? They weren't even regular or quality kickers in league! Havent seen any AFL players convert into the halfback position at top level RL for their kicking prowess though have we? All we have here is some dimwit coach at cronulla employing nic davis to essentially teach kicking skills he wouldnt have.

I stand by my point, AFL players excel with the use of the drop punt (the stab kick is simply a slight variation IMO) and variations of it and rarely use other kicks as you have agreed to above cos i.e. with the torps and grubbas. The halfback (generally this position although often the five eighth and hooker also) in league MUST use a wide variety of DIFFERENT kicks to be successful and hold their position at the top level. Sure an AFL player needs to be a great kick, and accurate and many (but by no means all like you suggest cos!) can use both feet effectively. But this doesnt mean they can kick a variety of kicks effectively. I stand solidly by my point, having played and watched both games often I know I'm...spot on

AFL players average 20 kicks per game each. A percentage of those would be on either side of their body, long drop punts, low stab passes which are virtually a drop kick the contact is somlow, snap shots across their body, banana kicks away from their body. The forwards would also do a proportion of end on end grubbers.

Every player in the AFL kicks the ball, not just a select few.

and they miss
duff it
stuff it up
bugger it

& repeat ....

Xman wrote:

AFL players average 20 kicks per game each. A percentage of those would be on either side of their body, long drop punts, low stab passes which are virtually a drop kick the contact is somlow, snap shots across their body, banana kicks away from their body. The forwards would also do a proportion of end on end grubbers.

Every player in the AFL kicks the ball, not just a select few.

And they all spend their spare time practising their kicking skills.
And they've done that since their childhood..

Intentcity I'll think you'll find that is in fact a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Long kicking and taking risks is what the fans want and it wins premierships. Ask Geelong and Collingwood.

AFL players cant coach league players how to kick. I'll be watching cronulla with rolling eyes and beaussie, xman and cos in mind as their kicking game improves diddly squat this year.

King-Eliagh wrote:

Cos a lot of what you say is bleeding obvious to me, having played both sports. Again you make some decent points but they are off kilter. The one about AFL players kicking further is directly related to the weight and shape of the ball when comparing across codes, not the specialty skills of the kicker. I guarantee you, given a small amount of training many rugby league players in the halfback and five eightth positions could kick well beyond 60 metre AFL kicks. And fullbacks are not more likely than halfbacks to be league kickers you silly man, your knowledge of the game is minimal... aaaannd we've already seen a few league players convert to AFL and guess what? They weren't even regular or quality kickers in league! Havent seen any AFL players convert into the halfback position at top level RL for their kicking prowess though have we? All we have here is some dimwit coach at cronulla employing nic davis to essentially teach kicking skills he wouldnt have.

I stand by my point, AFL players excel with the use of the drop punt (the stab kick is simply a slight variation IMO) and variations of it and rarely use other kicks as you have agreed to above cos i.e. with the torps and grubbas. The halfback (generally this position although often the five eighth and hooker also) in league MUST use a wide variety of DIFFERENT kicks to be successful and hold their position at the top level. Sure an AFL player needs to be a great kick, and accurate and many (but by no means all like you suggest cos!) can use both feet effectively. But this doesnt mean they can kick a variety of kicks effectively. I stand solidly by my point, having played and watched both games often I know I'm...spot on

give em a week
they'd be all ova it .......... but they can also , tackle .. pass .. catch under pressure ... create space n time ( imagine these flogball merkins trying to break up a RL defence )
but as you say . why bother learning their style or method of kicking .. its useless to them

& as for lostcos789 & his ridiculous assertion that if they were this good they'd all be playing giggleball
when will he get it through his thick head
kids in NSW & QLD have no interest .. no affection .. no mind for his silly little sport
short of 1 million a year for them all ( the AFL would go broke paying them all ) .. they would not bother with a sport that does not challenge them .. that is soft .. that is " beneath " them
they earn a great living in the NRL .. soon to be even greater ...it is what they grow up dreaming of being involved in
it is the ultimate sport & where they are happy

Raiderdave wrote:

King-Eliagh wrote:

Cos a lot of what you say is bleeding obvious to me, having played both sports. Again you make some decent points but they are off kilter. The one about AFL players kicking further is directly related to the weight and shape of the ball when comparing across codes, not the specialty skills of the kicker. I guarantee you, given a small amount of training many rugby league players in the halfback and five eightth positions could kick well beyond 60 metre AFL kicks. And fullbacks are not more likely than halfbacks to be league kickers you silly man, your knowledge of the game is minimal... aaaannd we've already seen a few league players convert to AFL and guess what? They weren't even regular or quality kickers in league! Havent seen any AFL players convert into the halfback position at top level RL for their kicking prowess though have we? All we have here is some dimwit coach at cronulla employing nic davis to essentially teach kicking skills he wouldnt have.

I stand by my point, AFL players excel with the use of the drop punt (the stab kick is simply a slight variation IMO) and variations of it and rarely use other kicks as you have agreed to above cos i.e. with the torps and grubbas. The halfback (generally this position although often the five eighth and hooker also) in league MUST use a wide variety of DIFFERENT kicks to be successful and hold their position at the top level. Sure an AFL player needs to be a great kick, and accurate and many (but by no means all like you suggest cos!) can use both feet effectively. But this doesnt mean they can kick a variety of kicks effectively. I stand solidly by my point, having played and watched both games often I know I'm...spot on

give em a week
they'd be all ova it .......... but they can also , tackle .. pass .. catch under pressure ... create space n time ( imagine these flogball merkins trying to break up a RL defence )
but as you say . why bother learning their style or method of kicking .. its useless to them

& as for lostcos789 & his ridiculous assertion that if they were this good they'd all be playing giggleball
when will he get it through his thick head
kids in NSW & QLD have no interest .. no affection .. no mind for his silly little sport
short of 1 million a year for them all ( the AFL would go broke paying them all ) .. they would not bother with a sport that does not challenge them .. that is soft .. that is " beneath " them
they earn a great living in the NRL .. soon to be even greater ...it is what they grow up dreaming of being involved in
it is the ultimate sport & where they are happy

so soft that k hunt couldn't even complete either of the last two seasons because he was just plain buggered!

You've probably never seen an ARs game live. It might not have the free for all punch ons like thugby but It certainly is not soft!

Burp machines can't see, Xman.