the VFL imploding financially

[TLPG]

You didn't win fair and square, Raider. You didn't win at all.

[Raiderdave]

You didn't win fair and square, Raider. You didn't win at all.

fuck off you lying *****
no one cares what a gutless yellow shirt lifter like you has to say
oh &
enjoy yr golden shower from yr lil yipping lap dog mate while yr at it .... yip yip :_<> :_<> :_<>

[214Four]

equalise
what.. are we in communist North Korea or something ? >

how can you tell a business they are to curb their success or even worse
share their income with their competitors ?
just another attempt by the kings of fake
to manipulate things to contrive an outcome

Get lost, Raider!! Football doesn't run like that! It needs to be even to be successful!! Do NOT apply such business principles to team sport .

>

:_<> :_<> :_<> :_<>

don't apply business principles to ................ahhhhh..... a business.. because they don't work

FOOTBALL IS NOT A BLOODY BUSINESS!!!!!!!

Needed to be YELLED, not just said! :**** :**** :**** :**** :****

But professional football clubs are

[214Four]

I think the suns are going great as to its purpose to grow the game here. I can see your point if it were gws you were talking about... Lots if struggles there. If you are just talking on field performance I think that's a bit short cited. A case in point, if the giants were performing well on the field I would still say that they aren't doing so well due to off field woes. Suns are improving on field and will continue to do so. But it is their acceptance off field and the general acceptance as the towns sporting side along with titans (without all the woes that the titans have been through), I would say the suns are doing better then the lions in that area. Although lions have a strong core of supporters. Suns do too but not as large. Suns are big in media up here and lots of local natives follow them. Smart move was the growing of club from scratch ... As town has grown with them ... A bit like the gc itself, it has been the little guy and grown and now challenging to get up there... There is a parallel process I would say. Fortunate north didn't move as think the cgi wouldn't have got behind that team as much. Yes indeed, the suns are going well up here ... Once they get it together on the field, and they will, they will be massive ... The question. Will it be sustained ?

Phelpsy you mentioned how GCS purpose is to grow the game in SE QLD, but is that area really big enough for two AFL teams? specially two successful AFL teams.

brisbane and the gold coast are very close to each other (the two urban areas are connnected and CBD-CBD is 70km) and the lions have only been somewhat successful due to the merged populations of 2.6million. AFL is 3rd popular at best in this area so if we took the population figure and collolated it with the sporting teams/codes populaity then the dominant rugby codes i would say have 70% of market in brisbane and (according to phelpsy) 50% market of goldcoast which gives a population of 1.7 million. soccer is more dominant than AFL in brisbane so id say 10% of brisbane is AFL and on the gold coast id say 40% AFL to give a population figure for AFL in brisbane/Gold coast of 400,000 - 500,000(ill use the 500K figure). So pre 2011 there was one AFL team (the lions) based in brisbane/gold coast which has an AFL market population of 500,000, which is satisfactory for one team. then 2011 GCS enter the competition so that 500,000 figure is now at best shared 50/50 which would give 250K each, which i think would be really pushing the line between successful(staying in the black and making money) and folding. Geelong works ok with this number mainly due to its location so close to the biggest AFL market.

If you disagre with me on GCS suns being detrimental ill put it in another perspective for you. Do you seriously think GCS would exist if the gold coast happened to be as far from brisbane as say newcastle is from sydney (CBD - CBD 160kms)? Is the market on the gold coast alone large enough to support an AFL team. I say no. GCS need brisbane metro just like the lions need the gold coast metro. the areas population is too small (market wise) for both AFL teams to be successful (staying in the black and not relying on AFL money to survive). sadly, the market is big enough for one team to potentially be a success(looks to be GCS) whilst the other will be a basket case(relying on AFL handouts to survive).

[TLPG]

equalise
what.. are we in communist North Korea or something ? >

how can you tell a business they are to curb their success or even worse
share their income with their competitors ?
just another attempt by the kings of fake
to manipulate things to contrive an outcome

Get lost, Raider!! Football doesn't run like that! It needs to be even to be successful!! Do NOT apply such business principles to team sport .

>

:_<> :_<> :_<> :_<>

don't apply business principles to ................ahhhhh..... a business.. because they don't work

FOOTBALL IS NOT A BLOODY BUSINESS!!!!!!!

Needed to be YELLED, not just said! :**** :**** :**** :**** :****

But professional football clubs are

I'm talking about the game, 214, not the clubs. And even then the clubs have some community guidelines that they have to follow in order to survive. And that has nothing to do with business. Fitzroy didn't follow the community guidelines - and look what happened to them.

Note to Raider - don't call anyone gutless or anything related to that, because it is a massive case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[AFLcrap1]

equalise
what.. are we in communist North Korea or something ? >

how can you tell a business they are to curb their success or even worse
share their income with their competitors ?
just another attempt by the kings of fake
to manipulate things to contrive an outcome

Get lost, Raider!! Football doesn't run like that! It needs to be even to be successful!! Do NOT apply such business principles to team sport .

>

:_<> :_<> :_<> :_<>

don't apply business principles to ................ahhhhh..... a business.. because they don't work

FOOTBALL IS NOT A BLOODY BUSINESS!!!!!!!

Needed to be YELLED, not just said! :**** :**** :**** :**** :****

But professional football clubs are

I'm talking about the game, 214, not the clubs. And even then the clubs have some community guidelines that they have to follow in order to survive. And that has nothing to do with business. Fitzroy didn't follow the community guidelines - and look what happened to them.

Note to Raider - don't call anyone gutless or anything related to that, because it is a massive case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I call you gutless,full of shit,& a straight out liar.
& your claim that al Melb Storm games were shown on Gem into Melb is a whopper .(& I highly suspect that Xman & Beaussie know this is a lie,but are saying nothing)
No proof just another of your lies .

[NRLCrap1]

I think the suns are going great as to its purpose to grow the game here. I can see your point if it were gws you were talking about... Lots if struggles there. If you are just talking on field performance I think that's a bit short cited. A case in point, if the giants were performing well on the field I would still say that they aren't doing so well due to off field woes. Suns are improving on field and will continue to do so. But it is their acceptance off field and the general acceptance as the towns sporting side along with titans (without all the woes that the titans have been through), I would say the suns are doing better then the lions in that area. Although lions have a strong core of supporters. Suns do too but not as large. Suns are big in media up here and lots of local natives follow them. Smart move was the growing of club from scratch ... As town has grown with them ... A bit like the gc itself, it has been the little guy and grown and now challenging to get up there... There is a parallel process I would say. Fortunate north didn't move as think the cgi wouldn't have got behind that team as much. Yes indeed, the suns are going well up here ... Once they get it together on the field, and they will, they will be massive ... The question. Will it be sustained ?

Phelpsy you mentioned how GCS purpose is to grow the game in SE QLD, but is that area really big enough for two AFL teams? specially two successful AFL teams.

brisbane and the gold coast are very close to each other (the two urban areas are connnected and CBD-CBD is 70km) and the lions have only been somewhat successful due to the merged populations of 2.6million. AFL is 3rd popular at best in this area so if we took the population figure and collolated it with the sporting teams/codes populaity then the dominant rugby codes i would say have 70% of market in brisbane and (according to phelpsy) 50% market of goldcoast which gives a population of 1.7 million. soccer is more dominant than AFL in brisbane so id say 10% of brisbane is AFL and on the gold coast id say 40% AFL to give a population figure for AFL in brisbane/Gold coast of 400,000 - 500,000(ill use the 500K figure). So pre 2011 there was one AFL team (the lions) based in brisbane/gold coast which has an AFL market population of 500,000, which is satisfactory for one team. then 2011 GCS enter the competition so that 500,000 figure is now at best shared 50/50 which would give 250K each, which i think would be really pushing the line between successful(staying in the black and making money) and folding. Geelong works ok with this number mainly due to its location so close to the biggest AFL market.

If you disagre with me on GCS suns being detrimental ill put it in another perspective for you. Do you seriously think GCS would exist if the gold coast happened to be as far from brisbane as say newcastle is from sydney (CBD - CBD 160kms)? Is the market on the gold coast alone large enough to support an AFL team. I say no. GCS need brisbane metro just like the lions need the gold coast metro. the areas population is too small (market wise) for both AFL teams to be successful (staying in the black and not relying on AFL money to survive). sadly, the market is big enough for one team to potentially be a success(looks to be GCS) whilst the other will be a basket case(relying on AFL handouts to survive).

Where are you getting this "AFL is 3rd popular" bunk from? Have you forgotten that the Bears started on the Gold Coast? The whole area - judging by the number of senior clubs according to TLPG's website - is brimming with AFL activity!

[214Four]

I think the suns are going great as to its purpose to grow the game here. I can see your point if it were gws you were talking about... Lots if struggles there. If you are just talking on field performance I think that's a bit short cited. A case in point, if the giants were performing well on the field I would still say that they aren't doing so well due to off field woes. Suns are improving on field and will continue to do so. But it is their acceptance off field and the general acceptance as the towns sporting side along with titans (without all the woes that the titans have been through), I would say the suns are doing better then the lions in that area. Although lions have a strong core of supporters. Suns do too but not as large. Suns are big in media up here and lots of local natives follow them. Smart move was the growing of club from scratch ... As town has grown with them ... A bit like the gc itself, it has been the little guy and grown and now challenging to get up there... There is a parallel process I would say. Fortunate north didn't move as think the cgi wouldn't have got behind that team as much. Yes indeed, the suns are going well up here ... Once they get it together on the field, and they will, they will be massive ... The question. Will it be sustained ?

Phelpsy you mentioned how GCS purpose is to grow the game in SE QLD, but is that area really big enough for two AFL teams? specially two successful AFL teams.

brisbane and the gold coast are very close to each other (the two urban areas are connnected and CBD-CBD is 70km) and the lions have only been somewhat successful due to the merged populations of 2.6million. AFL is 3rd popular at best in this area so if we took the population figure and collolated it with the sporting teams/codes populaity then the dominant rugby codes i would say have 70% of market in brisbane and (according to phelpsy) 50% market of goldcoast which gives a population of 1.7 million. soccer is more dominant than AFL in brisbane so id say 10% of brisbane is AFL and on the gold coast id say 40% AFL to give a population figure for AFL in brisbane/Gold coast of 400,000 - 500,000(ill use the 500K figure). So pre 2011 there was one AFL team (the lions) based in brisbane/gold coast which has an AFL market population of 500,000, which is satisfactory for one team. then 2011 GCS enter the competition so that 500,000 figure is now at best shared 50/50 which would give 250K each, which i think would be really pushing the line between successful(staying in the black and making money) and folding. Geelong works ok with this number mainly due to its location so close to the biggest AFL market.

If you disagre with me on GCS suns being detrimental ill put it in another perspective for you. Do you seriously think GCS would exist if the gold coast happened to be as far from brisbane as say newcastle is from sydney (CBD - CBD 160kms)? Is the market on the gold coast alone large enough to support an AFL team. I say no. GCS need brisbane metro just like the lions need the gold coast metro. the areas population is too small (market wise) for both AFL teams to be successful (staying in the black and not relying on AFL money to survive). sadly, the market is big enough for one team to potentially be a success(looks to be GCS) whilst the other will be a basket case(relying on AFL handouts to survive).

Where are you getting this "AFL is 3rd popular" bunk from? Have you forgotten that the Bears started on the Gold Coast? The whole area - judging by the number of senior clubs according to TLPG's website - is brimming with AFL activity!

doesnt matter if a website says ''is brimming with AFL activity'' the FACT is in South east queensland AFLs best scenario is 3rd most popular football code. Rugby League, rugby union easily sit above. i would even say soccer sits 3rd above AFL but others say AFL is 3rd thats why im telling you
AFL IS AT BEST THE 3RD MOST POPULAR CODE IN SE QUEENSLAND. now can you tell me again about this 'brimming' and how it by somehow makes my statement false??

[King-Eliagh]

AFL is really struggling in SE QLD. The lions are falling apart both on the field and off, its quite amusing. The suns are a basketcase, have been since birth.

The AFL really fukked it up up there and in a decade or so it will come out and the AFL public will realise it. It will then, sadly, be all too late.

I think Sydney can handle two teams but unfortunately GWs are a poorly fabricated team of children based on the oh so false premise that when they gwow up and become men they will be superstars

Again in a decade or so the AFL public will realise they've been duped and will call for Andy D's head. Again, sadly it will be too late. Andy D will likely be laughing about it while snorting coke and having money fights with high class hookers. The battle of west Sydney as many have called it is already over. Buddy was their last chance, he prefers bondi.

[214Four]

Long term i think GWS wll be a thinly supported club and will have the occasional season with better crowds etc but overall they will be the smallest pro football club in sydney, i dont expect them to ever get average home crowds higher than the mid teens max, cos unlike the swans gws are located a distance away from the cbd andcant rely on the same amount of in town AFL fan walking to the game and watching. I cant see GWS ever not needing financial assistance from the AFL, like how the swans are but worst.
If the AFL can get it out of their head that their game is not going to conqur NSW (and QLD), accept AFL in this state is 4th most popular football code (out of the big 4) and the Victorian AFL bosses start to understand the sporting pecking order in sydney and respect the fact that GWS sits at the bottom(someone has to sit there lol), and stop trying to slame the media here with bullshit tabloid goss on anything AFL related then GWS will survive... maybe lol

[NRLCrap1]

doesnt matter if a website says ''is brimming with AFL activity'' the FACT is in South east queensland AFLs best scenario is 3rd most popular football code. Rugby League, rugby union easily sit above. i would even say soccer sits 3rd above AFL but others say AFL is 3rd thats why im telling you
AFL IS AT BEST THE 3RD MOST POPULAR CODE IN SE QUEENSLAND. now can you tell me again about this 'brimming' and how it by somehow makes my statement false??

Here's how! Beat this number of local clubs!

NORTH EAST AFL Northern Conference
Aspley 16.13 drew Gold Coast 17.7, Brisbane 19.19 d Redland 8.7, Morningside 19.14 d Northern Territory 9.15, Broadbeach 12.8 d Labrador 10.12, Southport & Mount Gravatt - BYE

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 1
Burleigh 12.8 wdb Western Magpies 24.17, Noosa 9.8 wdb Springwood 15.13, Palm Beach/Currumbin 18.17 d Sandgate 8.7, Surfers Paradise 21.9 d Coolangatta 11.6, University 4.5 wdb Mayne 22.20, Wilston Grange 9.16 wdb Maroochydore 11.17

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 2
Alexandra Hills 24.18 d Wynnum 3.3, Kedron 22.19 d Caboolture 5.4, Kenmore 9.7 wdb Caloundra 16.13, Nambour 11.11 wdb Yeronga/South Brisbane 18.12, Redcliffe 9.4 wdb Coorparoo 16.14, Robina 19.20 d Aspley 12.8

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 3
Beenleigh 17.18 d Ipswich 6.3, Carrara 19.20 d University 9.7, Logan City 15.7 d Griffith Uni/Moorooka 4.3, Pine Rivers 28.13 d Calamvale 4.7, Coomera - BYE

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 4 South
Robina 10.5 wdb Lismore 14.15, Ballina 15.12 d Bond Uni 5.7, Byron Bay 23.17 d Burleigh 3.2, Tweed Coast - BYE

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 4 Central
Collingwood Park 8.10 d Kenmore 5.6, Woodsmen 20.19 d Kedron 3.1, Yeronga/South Brisbane 4.3 wdb Zillmere 16.13, Jimboomba d University by forfeit

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 4 North
Gympie 7.9 wdb Maroochydore 12.8, Pomona 27.17 d Glasshouse 1.1, Bribie Island 40.17 d Noosa 3.0

Yeah some are NSW and NT are there, but count them up - and then show me the same numbers at local rugby in both codes! These are open age by the way because I can't be bothered looking up juniors for now.

(Apologies to TLPG for copying part of two pages on his site but it was the easiest to access)

[King-Eliagh]

Long term i think GWS wll be a thinly supported club and will have the occasional season with better crowds etc but overall they will be the smallest pro football club in sydney, i dont expect them to ever get average home crowds higher than the mid teens max, cos unlike the swans gws are located a distance away from the cbd andcant rely on the same amount of in town AFL fan walking to the game and watching. I cant see GWS ever not needing financial assistance from the AFL, like how the swans are but worst.
If the AFL can get it out of their head that their game is not going to conqur NSW (and QLD), accept AFL in this state is 4th most popular football code (out of the big 4) and the Victorian AFL bosses start to understand the sporting pecking order in sydney and respect the fact that GWS sits at the bottom(someone has to sit there lol), and stop trying to slame the media here with bullshit tabloid goss on anything AFL related then GWS will survive... maybe lol

Yes I tend to agree 214. It's perhaps going to be the biggest sporting/business mistake of the century, mainly because I don't see the AFL giving up. They'll literally pour billions into GWS over decades with little return.

Deep down I truly believe this city is big enough for two AFL teams, but unfortunately, for the AFL, they've really bungled their chances. GWS are situated in no mans land, homebush, and within easy cycling distance of the swans home ground the SCG. For the millions and millions they've already put in and will continue to put in the AFL could've atleast situated their team in the heartland of Greater Western Sydney. Instead what they've done is send a, somewhat subliminal, message to all living in GWS that this team is not really theirs, but prefers to hang on the fringes of the community, at a distance...in ...homebush. Really it'd prob be more successful if they had of called the team the homebush giants... What we have tho is the biggest marketing fail of the century imo. Izzy folou was the second biggest marketing fail of the century

[214Four]

Eliagh the biggest problem with GWS that i see is that there was no real demand for them. western sydney was not pushing for a team, there are nowhere near the level of AFL supporters or interest in AFL to warrent a team. basically like it was a descision made totally out of the blue, the AFL decide to put an AFL team western sydney. they released coff 'participation' figures sayig how AFL was growing substancially in the west and they believed it was the right time to add a 2nd sydney team there. how the hell was it the right time? if their figures (again coff) were accurate, then wouldnt it make more sense adding western sydney team in say 10 years time, that way all those supposed people participating in AFL in syds west by then would be late teens or early adults grown up on the game and therefore the area would ACTUALLY have an AFL fanbase and ACTUAL REGISTERED AFL players of significant numbers? Wouldnt they wait until the swans are not dependant of AFL money to stay up? no that according to VLAD and co was not a proper time. Now look at the issue now with the 2 QLD teams. the tiny AFL market in SE QLD is not big enough to warrent two teams and one of them at least will become heavily dependant on AFL money to survive.

These two teams were formed to apparently boost the price of the AFL for future tv deals and give the AFL more Bartering powers in them too due to these two teams based in the 2nd biggest and 4th biggest markets in Aust.
Did the AFL look at it from the opposite perspective and think if these teams are poor on field and have poor tv audiences can they actually weakin the AFL and make it less valueable in future tv deals?
did they think that the millions poured out to two teams or drafts heavily favoured for them may inadvertingly weakin some AFL clubs and cause fnancial problems or help create weaker struggleing clubs due to them not getting their fair share of drafts?
Did the AFL think what impact these two teams could make on the two initial clubs, specially when neither the Swans or the lions are financially viable on their own... No VLAD and co didnt think of that.

I honestly think that they have been dishing out fudged and misguiding figures for so long on the 'srength' coff and 'growth' coff and coff coff (excuse me) participation levels of AFL in NSW and QLD that it looks like they started believing their own lies lol. well they do say, if you tell a lie enough times you will eventually believe it..

[King-Eliagh]

=D> =D> =D>

Superbly said there 214. Before I discuss I do hope you get over that nasty nasty cough you have there, sounds awful.

Yes I definitely agree. The AFL launched in like dumb colonists, unable to see others perspective, completely ignorant to the landscape and to whether or not there was an actual demand for their presence. Though I only looked at one element of the disastrous decision I understand there are many and the first point you make is possibly the biggest element in the worst business move of this century, and quite possibly the worst business move of the last millennium.

.

[214Four]

doesnt matter if a website says ''is brimming with AFL activity'' the FACT is in South east queensland AFLs best scenario is 3rd most popular football code. Rugby League, rugby union easily sit above. i would even say soccer sits 3rd above AFL but others say AFL is 3rd thats why im telling you
AFL IS AT BEST THE 3RD MOST POPULAR CODE IN SE QUEENSLAND. now can you tell me again about this 'brimming' and how it by somehow makes my statement false??

Here's how! Beat this number of local clubs!

NORTH EAST AFL Northern Conference
Aspley 16.13 drew Gold Coast 17.7, Brisbane 19.19 d Redland 8.7, Morningside 19.14 d Northern Territory 9.15, Broadbeach 12.8 d Labrador 10.12, Southport & Mount Gravatt - BYE

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 1
Burleigh 12.8 wdb Western Magpies 24.17, Noosa 9.8 wdb Springwood 15.13, Palm Beach/Currumbin 18.17 d Sandgate 8.7, Surfers Paradise 21.9 d Coolangatta 11.6, University 4.5 wdb Mayne 22.20, Wilston Grange 9.16 wdb Maroochydore 11.17

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 2
Alexandra Hills 24.18 d Wynnum 3.3, Kedron 22.19 d Caboolture 5.4, Kenmore 9.7 wdb Caloundra 16.13, Nambour 11.11 wdb Yeronga/South Brisbane 18.12, Redcliffe 9.4 wdb Coorparoo 16.14, Robina 19.20 d Aspley 12.8

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 3
Beenleigh 17.18 d Ipswich 6.3, Carrara 19.20 d University 9.7, Logan City 15.7 d Griffith Uni/Moorooka 4.3, Pine Rivers 28.13 d Calamvale 4.7, Coomera - BYE

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 4 South
Robina 10.5 wdb Lismore 14.15, Ballina 15.12 d Bond Uni 5.7, Byron Bay 23.17 d Burleigh 3.2, Tweed Coast - BYE

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 4 Central
Collingwood Park 8.10 d Kenmore 5.6, Woodsmen 20.19 d Kedron 3.1, Yeronga/South Brisbane 4.3 wdb Zillmere 16.13, Jimboomba d University by forfeit

AFL SOUTH EAST QUEENSLAND Division 4 North
Gympie 7.9 wdb Maroochydore 12.8, Pomona 27.17 d Glasshouse 1.1, Bribie Island 40.17 d Noosa 3.0

Yeah some are NSW and NT are there, but count them up - and then show me the same numbers at local rugby in both codes! These are open age by the way because I can't be bothered looking up juniors for now.

(Apologies to TLPG for copying part of two pages on his site but it was the easiest to access)

Mate its not worth me wasting too much of my time on this one... If you honestly believe there is valid reason for discussing if Rugby League and Union bigger is than AFL in QLD, then basically its not worth my while.