and it will, when both sides get off the bottom of the ladder, which is already beginning to happenRaiderdave wrote:Xman wrote:1. new sides have to start somewhere
2. the Lions were top of the ladder in 2001/2. Of course their crowds were decent. Now we have two teams that are near bottom yet more fans. Imagine when theyre both in the finals! 40-50k fans in QLD instead of 30k =D>
a 2nd side needs to add a few more then 25K to a market to be considered a worthwhile exercise
both the thuns & midgets have added next to nothing to the VFL ... except a massive bill![]()
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& yes lets imagine
the VFL has manipulated its salary cap & draft & finally theres some competitive sides up QLD & western sydney way
of course its at the expense of the same sides struggling in the heartland
but hey
lets all have a lil cheer eh ....
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f me ... they are as stupid as they come this lot
less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
King-Eliagh: ...I believe [RL] is popular in all the other states and territories, bar tasmania.
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Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
You douchebags. The figures clearly show us that if you go to a game in the AFL comp then you are likely to be in and amongst a smaller crowd of fans than years gone by. And I'll add to that, you're also likely to see a less competitive game.
The fact the AFL has two more teams and therefore has higher TOTAL crowds means diarrhea. Seriously it sounds like you AFL clowns would argue for 50 teams in the comp, even if this meant only 5 thousand avg at each game, as long as the total combined crowd meant there were more people going to AFL.
Some perspective you twats. The fact the AFL average crowds are sliding, along with the competitiveness of games, is quite a serious issue. Very worrying, very worrying indeed.
Now to get back on topic. I wonder whether the swans, the premiers, crowd avgs might drop this season? Wouldnt that just be a scary thought and a real indicator of decline.
The fact the AFL has two more teams and therefore has higher TOTAL crowds means diarrhea. Seriously it sounds like you AFL clowns would argue for 50 teams in the comp, even if this meant only 5 thousand avg at each game, as long as the total combined crowd meant there were more people going to AFL.
Now to get back on topic. I wonder whether the swans, the premiers, crowd avgs might drop this season? Wouldnt that just be a scary thought and a real indicator of decline.

xman wrote:KE, why is an even comp important?
Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
last year in the pouring rain against the Bulldogs the Swans got a crowd of 13.5k. This year against a team with zero away support in the same horrible conditions they got 20k.
Explain to me how this is a decline in support?
Explain to me how this is a decline in support?
Raiderdave wrote:perception is reality
Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
Also, wtf is with the title of this thread? Two crowds OVER 20,000 in two weeks were recorded. The only AFL crowd under 20,000 in Sydney has been the fictional one in Raider Dave's underformed brain. God he's a ******.
Raiderdave wrote:perception is reality
Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
Fail.Raiderdave wrote:Xman wrote:OK lets see, total AFL audience after 2 rounds adn NRL audience after 5 rounds:Raiderdave wrote:add an extra 5 games to our aggregate total ( so its the same game amount for both) & we're 80K ahead
5 years ago
it took us 6 rounds to equal the VFL's 2
in 5 years
we'll need only 4 rounds
its obvious
we're growing
& the VFL is not .....
2000: AFL 504,693 NRL 530829
2002: AFL 551,493 NRL 520931
2004: AFL 544,594 NRL 558697
2006: AFL 541,087 NRL 617995
2008 AFL 631,379 NRL 719300 NRL to 8 matches
2010: AFL 655,004 NRL 724997
2012: AFL 678,464 NRL 681047
2013: AFL 716,603 NRL 705864 (Giving the storm 16k attendance tonight)
So:
- do you concede you were completely wrong? The NRL have pretty much always been ahead after 5 rounds compared to the AFL after 2 rounds, often well ahead? :D
- do you concede the NRL have only grown by 175,035 for the first 5 rounds since the year 2000, or only 35,007 per round?
- do you concede the NRL have actually shrunk in crowds per round since 2008 and 2010, over the first 5 rounds?
- do you concede the AFL have increased by 106k per round since the year 2000 over the first 2 rounds?
- do you condede you're full of shit?
Have a nice morning.....![]()
![]()
![]()
you **** halfwit
the VFL after 2 rnds had 16 games played in 2010 at an average of 40,937
in 2013 ... they've played 18 games played after 2 rnds at an average of 39,811
a drop of more then a 1000 a game ..... already![]()
just utter decline![]()
you see I can manipulate numbers anyway I want too cockhead![]()
the NRL will be well ahead of its 2012 tally by the end of next weekend ... infact I'll say ahead of every year listed above =D> =D>
BOTH
a bigger aggregate total
& a bigger average
the VFL cannot claim the same ...
You claimed the NRL had increased in crowd sizes compared to the AFL, suggesting our 2 rounds always beat your 5 rounds 5 years ago. I showed this was BS and that the AFL is growing faster than the NRL which has actually stagnated.
Now you're claiming larger totals are irrelevant and only averages are important. More fans are more fans Dave, no matter what the change on average crowd
King-Eliagh: ...I believe [RL] is popular in all the other states and territories, bar tasmania.
Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
So if the NRL put a team in Adelaide, and it average 14k crowds, this would be a reduction in NRL crowd averages and therefore considered a failed expansion?King-Eliagh wrote:You douchebags. The figures clearly show us that if you go to a game in the AFL comp then you are likely to be in and amongst a smaller crowd of fans than years gone by. And I'll add to that, you're also likely to see a less competitive game.
The fact the AFL has two more teams and therefore has higher TOTAL crowds means diarrhea. Seriously it sounds like you AFL clowns would argue for 50 teams in the comp, even if this meant only 5 thousand avg at each game, as long as the total combined crowd meant there were more people going to AFL.Some perspective you twats. The fact the AFL average crowds are sliding, along with the competitiveness of games, is quite a serious issue. Very worrying, very worrying indeed.
![]()
Now to get back on topic. I wonder whether the swans, the premiers, crowd avgs might drop this season? Wouldnt that just be a scary thought and a real indicator of decline.
Or if the NRL placed another team in Melbourne and both teams averaged 11k, meaning 22k a fortnight were attending NRL, a 40% increase on the current total. This is a reduction in crowds?
Correct?
Please show me how the AFL crowds are sliding when the first 2 rounds this year are well up on last year, mor people are attending games in NSW and QLD, and the tally has exceeded 700k for 2 rounds for the first time ever...
King-Eliagh: ...I believe [RL] is popular in all the other states and territories, bar tasmania.
Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
There's also the myopic attitude of League fans, that because the expansion clubs have brought the average down in the first few years, that it's always going to stay down. This is a long term investment. Remember, the Swans had crowds of 3-4k when the first moved o Sydney. They've now been the highest drawing team in Sydney across all football codes for 18 years in a row.
Raiderdave wrote:perception is reality
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Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
Fail.Xman wrote:Raiderdave wrote:OK lets see, total AFL audience after 2 rounds adn NRL audience after 5 rounds:Xman wrote:add an extra 5 games to our aggregate total ( so its the same game amount for both) & we're 80K ahead
5 years ago
it took us 6 rounds to equal the VFL's 2
in 5 years
we'll need only 4 rounds
its obvious
we're growing
& the VFL is not .....
2000: AFL 504,693 NRL 530829
2002: AFL 551,493 NRL 520931
2004: AFL 544,594 NRL 558697
2006: AFL 541,087 NRL 617995
2008 AFL 631,379 NRL 719300 NRL to 8 matches
2010: AFL 655,004 NRL 724997
2012: AFL 678,464 NRL 681047
2013: AFL 716,603 NRL 705864 (Giving the storm 16k attendance tonight)
So:
- do you concede you were completely wrong? The NRL have pretty much always been ahead after 5 rounds compared to the AFL after 2 rounds, often well ahead? :D
- do you concede the NRL have only grown by 175,035 for the first 5 rounds since the year 2000, or only 35,007 per round?
- do you concede the NRL have actually shrunk in crowds per round since 2008 and 2010, over the first 5 rounds?
- do you concede the AFL have increased by 106k per round since the year 2000 over the first 2 rounds?
- do you condede you're full of shit?
Have a nice morning.....![]()
![]()
![]()
you **** halfwit
the VFL after 2 rnds had 16 games played in 2010 at an average of 40,937
in 2013 ... they've played 18 games played after 2 rnds at an average of 39,811
a drop of more then a 1000 a game ..... already![]()
just utter decline![]()
you see I can manipulate numbers anyway I want too cockhead![]()
the NRL will be well ahead of its 2012 tally by the end of next weekend ... infact I'll say ahead of every year listed above =D> =D>
BOTH
a bigger aggregate total
& a bigger average
the VFL cannot claim the same ...
I showed
:[/quote]
you showed what an utter F wit you are
176 games 6,512,000
198 games 6,138,000
& according to you
this is growth
how can anyone take anything you post seriously anymore
not that anyone did
RL SOO II 4.194 Million veiwers
RL SOO I 4.068 Million
NRL GF 3.968 Million
VFL Grand Final 3.620 Million
SOO III 3.364 Million
NRL Prelim 2.219 Million
Kangaroos V NZ 1.214 Million
Sookerwhos V Japan 238K
RL SOO I 4.068 Million
NRL GF 3.968 Million
VFL Grand Final 3.620 Million
SOO III 3.364 Million
NRL Prelim 2.219 Million
Kangaroos V NZ 1.214 Million
Sookerwhos V Japan 238K
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Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
Drac wrote:There's also the myopic attitude of League fans, that because the expansion clubs have brought the average down in the first few years, that it's always going to stay down. This is a long term investment. Remember, the Swans had crowds of 3-4k when the first moved o Sydney. They've now been the highest drawing team in Sydney across all football codes for 18 years in a row.
they've brought the fucking aggregate down too you wombat
more games
less fans
how the fuck is that possible
the decline is there for all to see for those you aren't cockheads
RL SOO II 4.194 Million veiwers
RL SOO I 4.068 Million
NRL GF 3.968 Million
VFL Grand Final 3.620 Million
SOO III 3.364 Million
NRL Prelim 2.219 Million
Kangaroos V NZ 1.214 Million
Sookerwhos V Japan 238K
RL SOO I 4.068 Million
NRL GF 3.968 Million
VFL Grand Final 3.620 Million
SOO III 3.364 Million
NRL Prelim 2.219 Million
Kangaroos V NZ 1.214 Million
Sookerwhos V Japan 238K
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Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
You confused buffoon. Look at you dilly dallying around with numbers there, plucking them from your ass, sniffing them for potency and then placing the disgusting things on our forum, messing the whole place up with your filth.Xman wrote:So if the NRL put a team in Adelaide, and it average 14k crowds, this would be a reduction in NRL crowd averages and therefore considered a failed expansion?King-Eliagh wrote:You douchebags. The figures clearly show us that if you go to a game in the AFL comp then you are likely to be in and amongst a smaller crowd of fans than years gone by. And I'll add to that, you're also likely to see a less competitive game.
The fact the AFL has two more teams and therefore has higher TOTAL crowds means diarrhea. Seriously it sounds like you AFL clowns would argue for 50 teams in the comp, even if this meant only 5 thousand avg at each game, as long as the total combined crowd meant there were more people going to AFL.Some perspective you twats. The fact the AFL average crowds are sliding, along with the competitiveness of games, is quite a serious issue. Very worrying, very worrying indeed.
![]()
Now to get back on topic. I wonder whether the swans, the premiers, crowd avgs might drop this season? Wouldnt that just be a scary thought and a real indicator of decline.
Or if the NRL placed another team in Melbourne and both teams averaged 11k, meaning 22k a fortnight were attending NRL, a 40% increase on the current total. This is a reduction in crowds?
Correct?![]()
Please show me how the AFL crowds are sliding when the first 2 rounds this year are well up on last year, mor people are attending games in NSW and QLD, and the tally has exceeded 700k for 2 rounds for the first time ever...
You're nothing more than a child Xman. Now listen up.
Chances are if you go to an AFL match this season or last, there would be significantly less crowd members than in previous years. Chances are the competition of the match would also be lopsided. Fact is average crowds are down. Fact is last season the AFL had its most lopsided comp since the late 1800's!!! Or lets just say since the comp began.
Failed expansion? Yes Xman, that is looking quite correct. If melbourne and other teams continue their woeful form it's likely the AFL will cull a few teams...Then "total crowds" will go down by many thousands as there'll be less games. Would you then revert to average attendance as the sign for success Xman?

xman wrote:KE, why is an even comp important?
Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
How is this so hard for you to understand? GWS and GC don't play each other every week you ******. They play other clubs. Each club has 11 home matches; just as they did before GWS and GC entered the competition. if they play GC, GWS or - heaven forbid - both, at home, those are 1-2 home games against low drawing teams that would previously have had bigger crowds. Nobody wants to see GC or GWS untill they stop sucking. A Port home game against GC will have less supporters than a Port home game against StKilda. It's not just games at Metricon and Skoda that bring the league average down, but GWS/GC away games too. Like Freo before them, this will cease to be an issue once they start winning.Raiderdave wrote:Drac wrote:There's also the myopic attitude of League fans, that because the expansion clubs have brought the average down in the first few years, that it's always going to stay down. This is a long term investment. Remember, the Swans had crowds of 3-4k when the first moved o Sydney. They've now been the highest drawing team in Sydney across all football codes for 18 years in a row.
they've brought the fucking aggregate down too you wombat
more games
less fans
how the fuck is that possible
the decline is there for all to see for those you aren't cockheads
Raiderdave wrote:perception is reality
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Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
Ah but drac. The Freo club was built sensibly. Developed in heartland, supported with players, and at a time where the comp could, after a short building phase, accommodate more teams. GC have not improved last year on their first year. GWS were the laughing stock all last season and are likely to be the same this season. It's been spread too thin and at a time when the comp is being dominated by rich clubs. There's just not enough quality players to go round or they're being snaffled up b the wealthy.
Its worrying times drac, worrying times indeed. And so it should be. I, as a player and supporter of the code, wish the national comp was better but alas, its run by knob brained dunderheads. Thems the facts, I hope I've helped your understanding drac.
Its worrying times drac, worrying times indeed. And so it should be. I, as a player and supporter of the code, wish the national comp was better but alas, its run by knob brained dunderheads. Thems the facts, I hope I've helped your understanding drac.

xman wrote:KE, why is an even comp important?
Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
Again, complete and utter crap.King-Eliagh wrote:You confused buffoon. Look at you dilly dallying around with numbers there, plucking them from your ass, sniffing them for potency and then placing the disgusting things on our forum, messing the whole place up with your filth.Xman wrote:So if the NRL put a team in Adelaide, and it average 14k crowds, this would be a reduction in NRL crowd averages and therefore considered a failed expansion?King-Eliagh wrote:You douchebags. The figures clearly show us that if you go to a game in the AFL comp then you are likely to be in and amongst a smaller crowd of fans than years gone by. And I'll add to that, you're also likely to see a less competitive game.
The fact the AFL has two more teams and therefore has higher TOTAL crowds means diarrhea. Seriously it sounds like you AFL clowns would argue for 50 teams in the comp, even if this meant only 5 thousand avg at each game, as long as the total combined crowd meant there were more people going to AFL.Some perspective you twats. The fact the AFL average crowds are sliding, along with the competitiveness of games, is quite a serious issue. Very worrying, very worrying indeed.
![]()
Now to get back on topic. I wonder whether the swans, the premiers, crowd avgs might drop this season? Wouldnt that just be a scary thought and a real indicator of decline.
Or if the NRL placed another team in Melbourne and both teams averaged 11k, meaning 22k a fortnight were attending NRL, a 40% increase on the current total. This is a reduction in crowds?
Correct?![]()
Please show me how the AFL crowds are sliding when the first 2 rounds this year are well up on last year, mor people are attending games in NSW and QLD, and the tally has exceeded 700k for 2 rounds for the first time ever...
You're nothing more than a child Xman. Now listen up.
Chances are if you go to an AFL match this season or last, there would be significantly less crowd members than in previous years. Chances are the competition of the match would also be lopsided. Fact is average crowds are down. Fact is last season the AFL had its most lopsided comp since the late 1800's!!! Or lets just say since the comp began.
Failed expansion? Yes Xman, that is looking quite correct. If melbourne and other teams continue their woeful form it's likely the AFL will cull a few teams...Then "total crowds" will go down by many thousands as there'll be less games. Would you then revert to average attendance as the sign for success Xman?
All Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide crowds are about the same. Some are higher because of good performance, some are lower due to poor performance. This is no different to any comp in the world.
Therefore if you go to a game in Melbourne Adelaide or Perth youre sitting in roughly the same size crowd as before. In fact as my stats show, over the last decade these crowds, when added together, have increased by up to 100k per round.
If you go to a swans game youre sitting in a smaller crowd because a) the capacity of their ground is smaller and they have limited general admission seating, b) they have obviously lost some fringe supporters to the giants, however their membership is at record levels. Thats unless you think all the giants members are new AFL supporters
If you go to a giants game in Sydney youre sitting in a crowd that is about equal to most sporting crowds in Sydney.
If you go to a lions game, yes theyve reduced, but so have all teams in Brisbane/GC. You know, economy. They have also been crap on field for many years now
If you go to a Suns game you're sitting in about the same size crowd as the Titans, and many more than the A league were.
If you sit in an AFL crowd in Tasmania, youre sitting in a crowd many times more than their local league.
So, in summary, the average over the league doesnt equate to all crowds being lower. It equates to more games, and the additional crowds being lower than the original 8 games! What a surprise given the original average was the 4th best in the world!
King-Eliagh: ...I believe [RL] is popular in all the other states and territories, bar tasmania.
Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
You obviously have a short memory. Fremantle were a toilet for a decade. They didn't make the finals until their 9th year. No one wanted to see them play, just as noone want to see GWS or GC play until they're more competitive. I don't dispute that Freo were more competitive in their first 3 years than GC/GWS are/will be, but you forget that they didn't taste finals action 'till year NINE. Short term competency for long term mediocrity. The new clubs are the opposite. Short term pain for long term success. Having no finals appearance for 9 years is fine for a heartland club averaging a shade over 20,000 (now over 30,000), but GWS and GC need success to establish themselves firmly in their new markets. The concessions they have will ensure finals apperances in the coming years, they just need to survive these early years of thrashings. And they will.King-Eliagh wrote:Ah but drac. The Freo club was built sensibly. Developed in heartland, supported with players, and at a time where the comp could, after a short building phase, accommodate more teams. GC have not improved last year on their first year. GWS were the laughing stock all last season and are likely to be the same this season. It's been spread too thin and at a time when the comp is being dominated by rich clubs. There's just not enough quality players to go round or they're being snaffled up b the wealthy.
Its worrying times drac, worrying times indeed. And so it should be. I, as a player and supporter of the code, wish the national comp was better but alas, its run by knob brained dunderheads. Thems the facts, I hope I've helped your understanding drac.
Raiderdave wrote:perception is reality
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Re: less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row
Hahaha, not only are the midgets killing Vfl in Sydney, they're dragging the swines down with them.
Remember when all the vic-trihards kept saying the swines were the biggest club in NSW on attendances alone?
What happened? You now are not only behind the Bulldogs, you're also behind Souffs and easts of all teams.

Remember when all the vic-trihards kept saying the swines were the biggest club in NSW on attendances alone?
What happened? You now are not only behind the Bulldogs, you're also behind Souffs and easts of all teams.
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