Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by King-Eliagh »

TLPG wrote:
I know the definition you gave - and it's wrong. Like I said - you don't know the difference between experimentation (which every sporting club does) and tanking. Any "senior AFL employee" saying otherwise obviously wants to eliminate experimentation. In which case they should be sacked. I queston McClean's commitment to the game on the same grounds.

Note that when Bailey was first called out, the AFL responded then the same way I am now. They at least know the difference.
:blahblah: McLean's not the only one stating what went on TLPG.
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by TLPG »

Who cares? It's still experimentation. If McLean's not the only one saying it then that's more people who need an education.
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by ParraEelsNRL »

How can u tell which team is tanking when everyone one of them can't catch, kick, tackle or manage to run anywhere on the pitch when they are being interchanged 150 times a match?
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by eelofwest »

piesman2011 wrote:
Im with you eels I think it exists. It usually happens when teams realise that they wont finish in the 8 and start putting placers who are slightly injuried and would normally play out the season in for surgery. You could also say that this is making sure that the team is ready to go for the next year. Melbourne took it to another level in my opinion with playing players out of position (in my opinion) and putting their best players on the bench. Again it could be looking into developing new talent for next year and working out if some players can play in different positions. But you could also say that the coaches were making sure that they got the best new players for the following year by making sure the team was poor structurally and more likely to lose. Perhaps the Coaches were told in some cases but club board members to experiment with the players and try to see if the young players can perform. Who really knows. In my opinion this is tanking.
Good to see we agree on something.. :lol: :lol:

Btw Pies is it just me our does the AFL reward failure in general?

1 point for missing the Goal.
1st round draft pick for coming last, 2 first round draft picks in regards to Melbourne D's


AFL mustn’t turn a blind eye to tanking farce
As a passionate Adelaide Crows supporter and lover of AFL, it is disheartening to have tanking splattered across the news again. Thankfully the debate has taken place at the same time as the Olympics and thus hasn’t received as much coverage as usual.
I admire Brock McLean for standing up for what he believes in and coming out and telling the world more about what Melbourne did to secure draft picks.
There are two key things that have frustrated me about the AFL and the public’s reaction to this.
Firstly, hearing people say that they can’t believe that coaches would tell players to go out and not try their hardest really annoys me.
People need to realise that AFL footballers always give their best. Coaches don’t tell their players not to try, but they tell them to do things differently.
They might order a player to try different techniques in contests or they might put a player in a position that is blatantly wrong.
Secondly the naive attitude of the AFL towards tanking is what has brought the game to the situation it is in now.
Implementing a system that rewards the team that comes last on the ladder with the top draft pick was always going to cause trouble.
=P~
The former priority pick rule, which saw Melbourne pick up both Tom Scully and Jack Trengove was a farce. If it wasn’t bad enough to reward the team that came dead last, to give them an extra top pick if they only won a certain number of games was a joke.
If Adrian Anderson, Gillon McLachlan and Andrew Demetriou have even half a brain between them, they will change the draft system and punish Melbourne and Carlton for what they did.
I think there is something wrong with AFL HQ. They are to blame for this, not the players or coaches. :twisted:
Fancy setting up a competition that indirectly encourages tanking.. =D>
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by TLPG »

ParraEelsNRL wrote:
How can u tell which team is tanking when everyone one of them can't catch, kick, tackle or manage to run anywhere on the pitch when they are being interchanged 150 times a match?
This coming from a fool who doesn't understand how the game works and doesn't want to.

For you, Eel, the reason why behinds were introduced was to PREVENT DRAWS! You think about that - if you can that is!
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by piesman2011 »

TLPG wrote:
ParraEelsNRL wrote:
How can u tell which team is tanking when everyone one of them can't catch, kick, tackle or manage to run anywhere on the pitch when they are being interchanged 150 times a match?
This coming from a fool who doesn't understand how the game works and doesn't want to.

For you, Eel, the reason why behinds were introduced was to PREVENT DRAWS! You think about that - if you can that is!
In the NRL they have the golden point which not many people seam to like. Because you dont need to win it with a try which is by far the best way of scoring in RL.
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by Xman »

ParraEelsNRL wrote:
How can u tell which team is tanking when everyone one of them can't catch, kick, tackle or manage to run anywhere on the pitch when they are being interchanged 150 times a match?
Pitch.... :lol:

Coming from a fan of the most basic skilled game in the world! :roll:
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by ParraEelsNRL »

Mumble, your game is played on a CRICKET PITCH :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by TLPG »

I didn't know a cricket pitch was about 150 metres long, about 100 metres wide and shaped like an oval!

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by Xman »

ParraEelsNRL wrote:
Mumble, your game is played on a CRICKET PITCH :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Wow you really are stupid! :lol:
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by eelofwest »

eelofwest wrote:
piesman2011 wrote:
Im with you eels I think it exists. It usually happens when teams realise that they wont finish in the 8 and start putting placers who are slightly injuried and would normally play out the season in for surgery. You could also say that this is making sure that the team is ready to go for the next year. Melbourne took it to another level in my opinion with playing players out of position (in my opinion) and putting their best players on the bench. Again it could be looking into developing new talent for next year and working out if some players can play in different positions. But you could also say that the coaches were making sure that they got the best new players for the following year by making sure the team was poor structurally and more likely to lose. Perhaps the Coaches were told in some cases but club board members to experiment with the players and try to see if the young players can perform. Who really knows. In my opinion this is tanking.
Good to see we agree on something.. :lol: :lol:

Btw Pies is it just me our does the AFL reward failure in general?

1 point for missing the Goal.
1st round draft pick for coming last, 2 first round draft picks in regards to Melbourne D's


AFL mustn’t turn a blind eye to tanking farce
As a passionate Adelaide Crows supporter and lover of AFL, it is disheartening to have tanking splattered across the news again. Thankfully the debate has taken place at the same time as the Olympics and thus hasn’t received as much coverage as usual.
I admire Brock McLean for standing up for what he believes in and coming out and telling the world more about what Melbourne did to secure draft picks.
There are two key things that have frustrated me about the AFL and the public’s reaction to this.
Firstly, hearing people say that they can’t believe that coaches would tell players to go out and not try their hardest really annoys me.
People need to realise that AFL footballers always give their best. Coaches don’t tell their players not to try, but they tell them to do things differently.
They might order a player to try different techniques in contests or they might put a player in a position that is blatantly wrong.
Secondly the naive attitude of the AFL towards tanking is what has brought the game to the situation it is in now.
Implementing a system that rewards the team that comes last on the ladder with the top draft pick was always going to cause trouble.
=P~
The former priority pick rule, which saw Melbourne pick up both Tom Scully and Jack Trengove was a farce. If it wasn’t bad enough to reward the team that came dead last, to give them an extra top pick if they only won a certain number of games was a joke.
If Adrian Anderson, Gillon McLachlan and Andrew Demetriou have even half a brain between them, they will change the draft system and punish Melbourne and Carlton for what they did.
I think there is something wrong with AFL HQ. They are to blame for this, not the players or coaches. :twisted:
Fancy setting up a competition that indirectly encourages tanking.. =D>

Tanking talk a plea for help: Paul Roos
FRIENDS and family told me how shocked I looked during On the Couch on Monday night.
I wasn't so much shocked because I didn't know what Melbourne was trying to achieve by gaining lower draft picks at that time, I was amazed at the frankness of a player who was involved in the controversy.
I had to interject and ask Brock McLean to clarify exactly what he meant.
In the excitement of the interview, I was amazed that we had a player sitting there, openly discussing the Demons and their desires not to win.
Brock's follow-up comment that "blind Freddy" could see what they were doing confirmed to the football world what we already knew.
The word "tanking" has blurred the issue from day one because it has implied that players have tried to throw games by not trying.
This was and will never be the case. You will never have a group of players that enters the field with any other aim but to win the game.
Tanking is not a player issue, it is a club issue.

While the incentive for losing for bottom clubs is greater than the incentive for winning, teams will continue to set their sides up for failure.
Brock gave us an insight into how difficult it was for Melbourne's coach at the time, Dean Bailey (below).


Coaches by nature are super competitive and the thought of winning not being the No.1 priority goes against their natural instincts.
I doubt we will ever know where the directive came from at the Melbourne Football Club. But clearly, as we found out on Monday night, playing for draft picks did exist in the AFL. Frankly, the investigation by the AFL is irrelevant.
And I would suggest that 80-90 per cent of AFL followers would be - as I was on Monday night - shocked by the honesty but relieved that someone had finally admitted what went on.
If we needed further confirmation, we got it when Paul Gardner, former Melbourne president, admitted to leaving a game early because he knew what the team was trying to do.
I doubt we will ever know where the directive came from at the Melbourne Football Club. But clearly, as we found out on Monday night, playing for draft picks did exist in the AFL. Frankly, the investigation by the AFL is irrelevant.

Why do most coaches want the system changed? Simply because they fear that in the same position as Bailey they would have to do the same.
Currently, clubs do not fear any recriminations from the AFL. Rather than publicly use the word "tanking" we hear words like, "development, experimentation, rebuilding, and setting the team up for the future".
I believe that although there were positives in doing what Melbourne did, it underestimated how it would effect its culture.

Again, Brock gave us a clear insight into his thoughts as a Melbourne player at the time. I'm sure there would have been many teammates with similar views to his.
I found the interview on Monday night refreshing. But we need to move forward and learn and correct past mistakes.

The AFL must change the system to create competition right up to the final round.
Brock seemingly was making a plea. I hope it was not in vain.
Paul Roos certainly is not blind Freddy, are you there blind freddy???? :lol:


Another Article another good read... :lol:

Demetriou's cocky tanking treatment a slap in fans' faces
THE AFL administration does not get much wrong. Dummies don't land $1.4 billion media rights deals. Well, not all the time anyway. You do not build the richest and only true national football league by misreading your marketplace.
Such accomplishments, though, do not make you infallible. Sometimes the big successes make you so cocky that you reckon you can ignore problems. Step on your critics. Squash them with a whack of your tongue. Or just pretend that the issues don't exist.
It has been mostly a winning tactic. The AFL chief executive, Andrew Demetriou, has beaten off his doubters at club level. Most recently Cappuccino Kennett. He is still swinging punches but now that Cappuccino is no longer Hawthorn president he is no longer in the ring. He can only shadow box.
This week it has come undone for the AFL. The practice of tanking - football clubs electing to lose matches to win other objectives - has risen from the grave so condescendingly dug during the spread of years in which priority picks at the draft table were rated more worthwhile than an honest finish to the season.
The damning ramifications of Demetriou's ridicule and denial was two-fold. One, by suggesting the practice did not take place, it allowed clubs to continue to throw matches because the chief executive wasn't going to punish what he didn't see or believe. The more Demetriou thumped the table and said tanking was a figment of the commentariat, the more he emboldened clubs to manipulate results. Now that he has promised he will rain hellfire and damnation on any club that dares even think of trying such tactics, he has forced underground the very people who might have been willing to offer some insights into the corruption.
Second, the public began to lose confidence in the league leadership. If the boss could not see what was happening in front of his eyes and that of the whole football community, what else does he not get? And it was the ridicule as well. Only the thick and the slow, he believed, would think clubs would lose matches deliberately so they could manoeuvre into the best positions to grab the cream of the nation's kids in the annual drafts.
It led to football supporters questioning the AFL on everything. Not necessarily driven by facts or insight, just a resentment for being considered fools, ungrateful for a wonderful competition - the house that Andrew built.
The claims of tanking were never properly killed off. Too many people knew that it took place; too many people watched it unfold. Too many club officials winked when the matter was raised with them.
It was the policy of an administration that thought it was untouchable. And so it has thundered back to embarrass Demetriou and his team this week with unequivocal allegations from Carlton mid-fielder Brock McLean. He said on the pay-TV Monday night football show On The Couch that one of the reasons he left Melbourne to join Carlton was the culture embraced by the Demons to lose matches to enhance their draft picks. That was not how he played sport, McLean said.
These remarks followed this frank admission by McLean's former coach at Melbourne, Dean Bailey, when he was sacked by the club after round 19 last year. "I had no hesitation at all in the first two years of ensuring this club was well placed for draft picks," Bailey said. "I think what we've done is the right thing by the club, and if it cost me my job, so be it. But the club is always bigger than the individual. I was asked to do the best thing by the Melbourne Football Club and I did it. I did the right thing by the Melbourne Football Club."
Now, not even Demetriou could ignore the allegations. Any suspicions raised by Bailey's honesty had now been given more credibility. Melbourne appeared to have tanked to get the opportunity to win Tom Scully and Jack Trengove at the head of the draft. The integrity of the competition was now being publicly eroded.
This week Demetriou, in London for the Olympic Games following a holiday here and there with his family, could no longer bop his critics on the head with sarcasm and scorn. On Fox Footy on Thursday night Demetriou changed tack just as violently as the yachtsmen on Weymouth's waters.
"If I'm proven to be wrong, that's fine by me because - if someone wants to come forward and provide evidence - then we should investigate it," Demetriou said.
"My view is that (tanking) hasn't existed, that people have experimented, list management, whatever you want to call it.
"I don't think you can accept the tainting of the integrity of the competition, whatever the issue. If you've got information and you can sustain that information, then you deal with it and you deal with it severely.
"If Brock McLean's got information, apparently he's said that he was happy to speak to (AFL investigator) Brett Clothier, good. Brett Clothier can then deal with what his next steps are. He's got a very sophisticated system of interrogation and investigation - we do it in other areas. I'm glad that they've gone down that track and I'll await the outcome," the AFL boss said.
The lack of faith in the AFL has drawn other commentators to collate a list of the league's shortcomings. This year's 18-team structure does not escape fierce scrutiny. The Gold Coast Suns have not improved in their second year and debutant GWS has run out of breath. Their ritual floggings have been exacerbated by the football incompetence of Melbourne and the Western Bulldogs. Between them, the four clubs have won nine games in 18 rounds.
Football supporters are bored by inadequate teams, lopsided matches and you see it in attendance figures. Last round just 8102 people turned up to see Collingwood play GWS; 14,583 to watch Port Adelaide play Fremantle and, most damning, 20,816 for the Melbourne and North Melbourne fixture.
Add to that dissatisfaction, several commentators list the judicial system, the competition fixturing and video review system as signs of an administration that has lost control of its product. That is too rough a judgment. But it points to an underlying belief that the AFL gives its critics - informed or blustering - no credit.
At the centre of all this heartburn is the bewilderment of the AFL's approach to tanking when it appeared to be at its most rife and obvious. By treating those who challenged the AFL view that tanking was a product of punters' imagination and nothing else, the league officials lost the respect of the fans.
It is going to take more than a little slice of Demetriou humble pie to win it back.
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by Xman »

Eels, start providing a link for these quotes or I'm going to start deleting them.

Why is this even an issue any more? The priority pick has gone. :roll:
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by eelofwest »

Xman wrote:
Eels, start providing a link for these quotes or I'm going to start deleting them.

Why is this even an issue any more? The priority pick has gone. :roll:
Um Excuse me Mr Police Officer....when have you ever provided link to your Stuff? :lol: :lol:

Go and get fucked you bitter Man.....Tanking happens in the AFL and your just playing dirty now because all this is coming out for everyone to see.

Poor Form from a administrator i say.. :evil:

Btw why is the priority pick gone??? You guest it blind freddy, tanking happened in the AFL that is why.... :lol: :lol:

The title of the article is there for everyone to see, ever heard of using Google numb nuts?

Blind freddy the first thing you do if you have a problem is admit you have a problem..... :lol:
Hi Andrew why are you here with us today?

Dem: I have a problem with tanking in my work place, but i am not sure it exists it yet.. :-k
Lets all congratulate Andrew for being here with us today.. =D> =D> wait what are you here for if you are not sure it exists... [-(
Get it numb nuts....cant fix the problem without admitting there is a problem in the first place. And if you put all these measures in to stop tanking, then it is quite clear that tanking happens/happened in the AFL.

Clear to people with a Decent IQ so this is why i have put it in dummie terms for you my friend. :lol:
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by Xman »

eelofwest wrote:
Xman wrote:
Eels, start providing a link for these quotes or I'm going to start deleting them.

Why is this even an issue any more? The priority pick has gone. :roll:
Um Excuse me Mr Police Officer....when have you ever provided link to your Stuff? :lol: :lol:

Go and get ****** you bitter Man.....Tanking happens in the AFL and your just playing dirty now because all this is coming out for everyone to see.

Poor Form from a administrator i say.. :evil:

Btw why is the priority pick gone??? You guest it blind freddy, tanking happened in the AFL that is why.... :lol: :lol:

The title of the article is there for everyone to see, ever heard of using Google numb nuts?

Blind freddy the first thing you do if you have a problem is admit you have a problem..... :lol:
Hi Andrew why are you here with us today?

Dem: I have a problem with tanking in my work place, but i am not sure it exists it yet.. :-k
Lets all congratulate Andrew for being here with us today.. =D> =D> wait what are you here for if you are not sure it exists... [-(
Get it numb nuts....cant fix the problem without admitting there is a problem in the first place. And if you put all these measures in to stop tanking, then it is quite clear that tanking happens/happened in the AFL.

Clear to people with a Decent IQ so this is why i have put it in dummie terms for you my friend. :lol:
What are you talking about idiot? :roll:

Every time I quote an article I link it. Every time! :roll: you need to do the same! it's only reasonable so people can find the article easily and read it themselves, especially if the entire article isn't quoted. Every forum follows these guidelines.

And the priority pick was taken away to stop the perception of tanking, not because it was happening. Again, the articles you are quoting are opinions, not fact. There are just as many opinions that say tanking is a myth and it's the media focus on tanking that caused the AFL to act and ditch the priority picks.
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Re: Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

Post by piesman2011 »

TANKING INCLUDES THE FOLLOWING:

Instructing the players to deliberately lose matches
Employing unusual tactics in matches, including using players in positions where they do not usually play[2]
Resting star players with minor injuries, who would likely not be rested if the team were contesting finals[3]
Playing younger players who do not yet have much experience at AFL level[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priority_d ... ck#Tanking


All of the above can be considered tanking. In my opinion all clubs have done the last one "Playing younger players who do not yet have much experience at AFL level[4] " when out of finals contention, which is mostly to see if they can cut it at the top level and to develop the young players.
Carlton, Collingwood and Melbourne (maybe others) have all "Rested star players with minor injuries, who would likely not be rested if the team were contesting finals[3]", you could argue that this was to get selections, however you could argue that it was also to develop young players and get a good preseason into the injuried star players. This isn't really an issue because everyone knows that the players are not playing and the beating agencies adjust for this.
Melbourne im my opinion have "Employed unusual tactics in matches, including using players in positions where they do not usually play[2]", they have also rested BOG players on the bench if they have been playing to well (in my opinion). In my opinion this is wrong because the only reason for it is to get early selections for the following year and is pretty much match fixing (but not for financial gain or to rip off beating agencies like they did in the cricket). In my opinion if they can find Melbourne guilty they should loose all frist round draft picks for the next 2 years (or perhaps combine this with loosing the Scully compo).
No clubs have probabaly never "instructed the players to deliberately lose matches". This would destroy the fabric of the club.

Thats my take on Tanking which is a term that has multiple meaning.
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