less then 20,000 2 weeks in a row

[King-Eliagh]

RD I get a little confused ... How come you bag out the AFL for poor crowd numbers and say how well the Nrl is going when the AFL has better, way better, numbers than the Nrl? AFL even has better average attendances than nrl? Nrl is the main game in Sydney no one doubts that and if they do they are just being silly and stirring the pot. The swans have a following and a good one at that but it is not threatening nrl by a long shot. But denying the crowd pulling ability of AFL is also silly. People who go to AFL like to go back as the atmosphere is great. If the nrl could get crowds like they did over Easter to one game , people would go back to it too ... As many commented at the time, it makes the game better and adds something to it that is magic. So you can't deny that AFL draws crowds , even in Sydney. And we can't deny nrl is Sydney's game whilst the AFL has a significant and loyal following as well. The nrl would dearly love the presence the AFL in non traditional states.

Phelpsy I can understand ur confusion, many AFL supporters don't seem to think clearly, but seriously, get with the program. Daves point is that AFL crowds are declining and if his numbers are correct then he's right. Xmans total crowd numbs are also correct but daves hightlifhting that if you go to an AFL match this year and last year compared to years gone by, you're gunna be sittin in a smaller crowd. Ill add that you're also more likely to see a less competitive game. These are the facts and... It's worrying, really worrying.

[Raiderdave]

And what's the NRls excuse for getting less attendance in 5 rounds than the AFL in 2?

add an extra 5 games to our aggregate total ( so its the same game amount for both) & we're 80K ahead
5 years ago
it took us 6 rounds to equal the VFL's 2

in 5 years
we'll need only 4 rounds

its obvious
we're growing
& the VFL is not .....

You could add another 5 games if you wanted but the ARLC know theyre not ready. Add another Brisbane team and watch the Broncos shrink.

I'm also interested in how you think the NRL is growing when their crowd total hasnt moved in 7 years yet the AFL had its highest total ever in 2011 and is well above record pace already this year.

Isnt that growth?

we will add to our aggregate when we add an extra game .... thats the way it works
even with a measly 10K average times an extra 12 games for the new side ...( unlikely it'd be that low, but just bare with me)
we will grow our total attendances

the VFL added 22 extra games

22

& their average dropped like a lead weight

&

&

the total attendance did as well by 360,000


260,000 fans attended the home games of these 2 new sides .... for the VFL just to have treaded water
they had to increase their total attendances by this amount
but not only did they not do this .... it went down by a further 360K

theres no amount of but but butting that can explain this away ..... it was as bad as it could be
any dope trying to spin it any other way
is having a lend

[piesman2011]

RD I get a little confused ... How come you bag out the AFL for poor crowd numbers and say how well the Nrl is going when the AFL has better, way better, numbers than the Nrl? AFL even has better average attendances than nrl? Nrl is the main game in Sydney no one doubts that and if they do they are just being silly and stirring the pot. The swans have a following and a good one at that but it is not threatening nrl by a long shot. But denying the crowd pulling ability of AFL is also silly. People who go to AFL like to go back as the atmosphere is great. If the nrl could get crowds like they did over Easter to one game , people would go back to it too ... As many commented at the time, it makes the game better and adds something to it that is magic. So you can't deny that AFL draws crowds , even in Sydney. And we can't deny nrl is Sydney's game whilst the AFL has a significant and loyal following as well. The nrl would dearly love the presence the AFL in non traditional states.

Phelpsy I can understand ur confusion, many AFL supporters don't seem to think clearly, but seriously, get with the program. Daves point is that AFL crowds are declining and if his numbers are correct then he's right. Xmans total crowd numbs are also correct but daves hightlifhting that if you go to an AFL match this year and last year compared to years gone by, you're gunna be sittin in a smaller crowd. Ill add that you're also more likely to see a less competitive game. These are the facts and... It's worrying, really worrying.

AFL crowds will be up almost 2k on last year by the end of the year with the highest amount of people going through the gates ever this year. Both GWS and GC sides have both been competitive with last years premiers and will beat a lot of sides this year. Both of these trends will continue making both your points invalid.

[piesman2011]

add an extra 5 games to our aggregate total ( so its the same game amount for both) & we're 80K ahead
5 years ago
it took us 6 rounds to equal the VFL's 2

in 5 years
we'll need only 4 rounds

its obvious
we're growing
& the VFL is not .....

You could add another 5 games if you wanted but the ARLC know theyre not ready. Add another Brisbane team and watch the Broncos shrink.

I'm also interested in how you think the NRL is growing when their crowd total hasnt moved in 7 years yet the AFL had its highest total ever in 2011 and is well above record pace already this year.

Isnt that growth?

we will add to our aggregate when we add an extra game .... thats the way it works
even with a measly 10K average times an extra 12 games for the new side ...( unlikely it'd be that low, but just bare with me)
we will grow our total attendances

the VFL added 22 extra games

22

& their average dropped like a lead weight

&

&

the total attendance did as well by 360,000


260,000 fans attended the home games of these 2 new sides .... for the VFL just to have treaded water
they had to increase their total attendances by this amount
but not only did they not do this .... it went down by a further 360K

theres no amount of but but butting that can explain this away ..... it was as bad as it could be
any dope trying to spin it any other way
is having a lend

You might get an extra 10k average for both your new sides but every time they play away there will be 3k less away fans at their games.
Edit actually it would be closer to an average of 6-8k less away fans in Sydney.

[Raiderdave]

add an extra 5 games to our aggregate total ( so its the same game amount for both) & we're 80K ahead
5 years ago
it took us 6 rounds to equal the VFL's 2

in 5 years
we'll need only 4 rounds

its obvious
we're growing
& the VFL is not .....

You could add another 5 games if you wanted but the ARLC know theyre not ready. Add another Brisbane team and watch the Broncos shrink.

I'm also interested in how you think the NRL is growing when their crowd total hasnt moved in 7 years yet the AFL had its highest total ever in 2011 and is well above record pace already this year.

Isnt that growth?

we will add to our aggregate when we add an extra game .... thats the way it works
even with a measly 10K average times an extra 12 games for the new side ...( unlikely it'd be that low, but just bare with me)
we will grow our total attendances

the VFL added 22 extra games

22

& their average dropped like a lead weight

&

&

the total attendance did as well by 360,000


260,000 fans attended the home games of these 2 new sides .... for the VFL just to have treaded water
they had to increase their total attendances by this amount
but not only did they not do this .... it went down by a further 360K

theres no amount of but but butting that can explain this away ..... it was as bad as it could be
any dope trying to spin it any other way
is having a lend

You might get an extra 10k average for both your new sides but every time they play away there will be 3k less away fans at their games.
Edit actually it would be closer to an average of 6-8k less away fans in Sydney.[/quote]

that still equals aggregate growth .....

[Raiderdave]

RD I get a little confused ... How come you bag out the AFL for poor crowd numbers and say how well the Nrl is going when the AFL has better, way better, numbers than the Nrl? AFL even has better average attendances than nrl? Nrl is the main game in Sydney no one doubts that and if they do they are just being silly and stirring the pot. The swans have a following and a good one at that but it is not threatening nrl by a long shot. But denying the crowd pulling ability of AFL is also silly. People who go to AFL like to go back as the atmosphere is great. If the nrl could get crowds like they did over Easter to one game , people would go back to it too ... As many commented at the time, it makes the game better and adds something to it that is magic. So you can't deny that AFL draws crowds , even in Sydney. And we can't deny nrl is Sydney's game whilst the AFL has a significant and loyal following as well. The nrl would dearly love the presence the AFL in non traditional states.

Phelpsy I can understand ur confusion, many AFL supporters don't seem to think clearly, but seriously, get with the program. Daves point is that AFL crowds are declining and if his numbers are correct then he's right. Xmans total crowd numbs are also correct but daves hightlifhting that if you go to an AFL match this year and last year compared to years gone by, you're gunna be sittin in a smaller crowd. Ill add that you're also more likely to see a less competitive game. These are the facts and... It's worrying, really worrying.

AFL crowds will be up almost 2k on last year by the end of the year with the highest amount of people going through the gates ever this year. Both GWS and GC sides have both been competitive with last years premiers and will beat a lot of sides this year. Both of these trends will continue making both your points invalid.

hmmmm lets see
even in this unlikely event
we're up to 33K a game
X 198

6,534,000 in total

thats only level with 2010's figure of 37K X 176 games 6,512,000

thats still about zero growth in real terms
& when the extra games are factored in .... its negative growth of about 10%

when one considers the bill for this round of expansion .. let alone the damage its done to the quality of the comp
a sane person would summies the game was not close to being ready & its hardly been worth the cost.

[Fred]

KE .. I see so in Sydney AFL crowds are declining compared to last year ? That's fair enough . I assume you mean swans games only which is fair enough too. I remember Sydney games getting under 10 000 regularly when they started and couldn't win. So can we look at each average for all seasons for swans in Sydney ?

[Xman]

RD I get a little confused ... How come you bag out the AFL for poor crowd numbers and say how well the Nrl is going when the AFL has better, way better, numbers than the Nrl? AFL even has better average attendances than nrl? Nrl is the main game in Sydney no one doubts that and if they do they are just being silly and stirring the pot. The swans have a following and a good one at that but it is not threatening nrl by a long shot. But denying the crowd pulling ability of AFL is also silly. People who go to AFL like to go back as the atmosphere is great. If the nrl could get crowds like they did over Easter to one game , people would go back to it too ... As many commented at the time, it makes the game better and adds something to it that is magic. So you can't deny that AFL draws crowds , even in Sydney. And we can't deny nrl is Sydney's game whilst the AFL has a significant and loyal following as well. The nrl would dearly love the presence the AFL in non traditional states.

Phelpsy I can understand ur confusion, many AFL supporters don't seem to think clearly, but seriously, get with the program. Daves point is that AFL crowds are declining and if his numbers are correct then he's right. Xmans total crowd numbs are also correct but daves hightlifhting that if you go to an AFL match this year and last year compared to years gone by, you're gunna be sittin in a smaller crowd. Ill add that you're also more likely to see a less competitive game. These are the facts and... It's worrying, really worrying.

Rubbish,

the QLD and NSW crowds for individual games are smaller because of obvious reasons like stadium renovations, and teams being near the bottom etc. And the number of games in these states has doubled because there are now more teams, but this has split the supporters from 1 team to 2. But the total audience in these states is similar. Also 3 of the 4 teams in these 2 states have struggled on the field. Look at the warriors crowds when they struggle.

Other than that Tasmania have never experienced AFL crowds. VIC, WA and SA crowds are also strong.

[Xman]

Phelpsy I can understand ur confusion, many AFL supporters don't seem to think clearly, but seriously, get with the program. Daves point is that AFL crowds are declining and if his numbers are correct then he's right. Xmans total crowd numbs are also correct but daves hightlifhting that if you go to an AFL match this year and last year compared to years gone by, you're gunna be sittin in a smaller crowd. Ill add that you're also more likely to see a less competitive game. These are the facts and... It's worrying, really worrying.

AFL crowds will be up almost 2k on last year by the end of the year with the highest amount of people going through the gates ever this year. Both GWS and GC sides have both been competitive with last years premiers and will beat a lot of sides this year. Both of these trends will continue making both your points invalid.

hmmmm lets see
even in this unlikely event
we're up to 33K a game
X 198

6,534,000 in total

thats only level with 2010's figure of 37K X 176 games 6,512,000

thats still about zero growth in real terms
& when the extra games are factored in .... its negative growth of about 10%

when one considers the bill for this round of expansion .. let alone the damage its done to the quality of the comp
a sane person would summies the game was not close to being ready & its hardly been worth the cost.

Wouldnt that be more fans? Just because it takes more games doesnt mean its not growth. More people end up going, in more states, following more teams.

For example the QLD crowds were 31k per game in 2003, totalling 348k. Last year, despite both teams being in the bottom four the QLD AFL crowds were 373k.

This is growth. More fans attending the game, watching the game on TV. Its irrelevant how many teams were involved.

[Xman]

now you're getting it dickhead

And what's the NRls excuse for getting less attendance in 5 rounds than the AFL in 2?

add an extra 5 games to our aggregate total ( so its the same game amount for both) & we're 80K ahead
5 years ago
it took us 6 rounds to equal the VFL's 2
in 5 years
we'll need only 4 rounds

its obvious
we're growing
& the VFL is not .....

OK lets see, total AFL audience after 2 rounds adn NRL audience after 5 rounds:

2000: AFL 504,693 NRL 530829
2002: AFL 551,493 NRL 520931

2004: AFL 544,594 NRL 558697
2006: AFL 541,087 NRL 617995
2008 AFL 631,379 NRL 719300 NRL to 8 matches

2010: AFL 655,004 NRL 724997
2012: AFL 678,464 NRL 681047
2013: AFL 716,603 NRL 705864 (Giving the storm 16k attendance tonight )

So:

- do you concede you were completely wrong? The NRL have pretty much always been ahead after 5 rounds compared to the AFL after 2 rounds, often well ahead? :D

- do you concede the NRL have only grown by 175,035 for the first 5 rounds since the year 2000, or only 35,007 per round?

- do you concede the NRL have actually shrunk in crowds per round since 2008 and 2010, over the first 5 rounds?

- do you concede the AFL have increased by 106k per round since the year 2000 over the first 2 rounds?

- do you condede you're full of shit?
Have a nice morning.....

[Raiderdave]

KE .. I see so in Sydney AFL crowds are declining compared to last year ? That's fair enough . I assume you mean swans games only which is fair enough too. I remember Sydney games getting under 10 000 regularly when they started and couldn't win. So can we look at each average for all seasons for swans in Sydney ?

how bout they've gone down every year except one from 2007 to 2012 despite being a regular finalists

[Raiderdave]

AFL crowds will be up almost 2k on last year by the end of the year with the highest amount of people going through the gates ever this year. Both GWS and GC sides have both been competitive with last years premiers and will beat a lot of sides this year. Both of these trends will continue making both your points invalid.

hmmmm lets see
even in this unlikely event
we're up to 33K a game
X 198

6,534,000 in total

thats only level with 2010's figure of 37K X 176 games 6,512,000

thats still about zero growth in real terms
& when the extra games are factored in .... its negative growth of about 10%

when one considers the bill for this round of expansion .. let alone the damage its done to the quality of the comp
a sane person would summies the game was not close to being ready & its hardly been worth the cost.

Wouldnt that be more fans? Just because it takes more games doesnt mean its not growth. More people end up going, in more states, following more teams.

For example the QLD crowds were 31k per game in 2003, totalling 348k. Last year, despite both teams being in the bottom four the QLD AFL crowds were 373k.

This is growth. More fans attending the game, watching the game on TV. Its irrelevant how many teams were involved.

25K more fans at a cost of 200 Million dollars plus


yes theres plenty of value in that .....

[Xman]

1. new sides have to start somewhere

2. the Lions were top of the ladder in 2001/2. Of course their crowds were decent. Now we have two teams that are near bottom yet more fans. Imagine when theyre both in the finals! 40-50k fans in QLD instead of 30k =D>

[Raiderdave]

And what's the NRls excuse for getting less attendance in 5 rounds than the AFL in 2?

add an extra 5 games to our aggregate total ( so its the same game amount for both) & we're 80K ahead
5 years ago
it took us 6 rounds to equal the VFL's 2
in 5 years
we'll need only 4 rounds

its obvious
we're growing
& the VFL is not .....

OK lets see, total AFL audience after 2 rounds adn NRL audience after 5 rounds:

2000: AFL 504,693 NRL 530829
2002: AFL 551,493 NRL 520931

2004: AFL 544,594 NRL 558697
2006: AFL 541,087 NRL 617995
2008 AFL 631,379 NRL 719300 NRL to 8 matches

2010: AFL 655,004 NRL 724997
2012: AFL 678,464 NRL 681047
2013: AFL 716,603 NRL 705864 (Giving the storm 16k attendance tonight )

So:

- do you concede you were completely wrong? The NRL have pretty much always been ahead after 5 rounds compared to the AFL after 2 rounds, often well ahead? :D

- do you concede the NRL have only grown by 175,035 for the first 5 rounds since the year 2000, or only 35,007 per round?

- do you concede the NRL have actually shrunk in crowds per round since 2008 and 2010, over the first 5 rounds?

- do you concede the AFL have increased by 106k per round since the year 2000 over the first 2 rounds?

- do you condede you're full of shit?
Have a nice morning.....

you **** halfwit

the VFL after 2 rnds had 16 games played in 2010 at an average of 40,937
in 2013 ... they've played 18 games played after 2 rnds at an average of 39,811

a drop of more then a 1000 a game ..... already
just utter decline
you see I can manipulate numbers anyway I want too cockhead

the NRL will be well ahead of its 2012 tally by the end of next weekend ... infact I'll say ahead of every year listed above =D> =D>

BOTH
a bigger aggregate total
& a bigger average

the VFL cannot claim the same ...

[Raiderdave]

1. new sides have to start somewhere

2. the Lions were top of the ladder in 2001/2. Of course their crowds were decent. Now we have two teams that are near bottom yet more fans. Imagine when theyre both in the finals! 40-50k fans in QLD instead of 30k =D>

a 2nd side needs to add a few more then 25K to a market to be considered a worthwhile exercise
both the thuns & midgets have added next to nothing to the VFL ... except a massive bill

& yes lets imagine
the VFL has manipulated its salary cap & draft & finally theres some competitive sides up QLD & western sydney way
of course its at the expense of the same sides struggling in the heartland

but hey
lets all have a lil cheer eh ....

f me ... they are as stupid as they come this lot