Debate For & Against Vaccinations - Fight Club Rules apply

[pookus]

"TL is wrong. All Autistics are the result of vaccines, in particular thiomersal."ok doc

Water and salt are natural elements! Vaccines are NOT! So what are they made of non natural elements

Mental ******* and Autistics are the same thing and always will be, and that's why vaccinations have to stop! Did I miss the time machine what century did this idiot spew from.Vaccination has removed smallpox,TB and tetnus from the western world best we stop vaccination and all die of awful diseases.The link between autism and vaccination are tenuous at best but the link between saving lives and vaccination are plain to everyone
Theres a name for alternative medicine that works its called medicine
Stick to the footy champ its about your mental zenith.
Oh TLPG you owe Brock McClean an apology.

[Striker]

And they also know that Wakefield's QUACKERY was exposed leading to his rightful expulsion from medical practice in the UK!

The appeal will succeed - actually I didn't know that about the judge, Xman. Do you have a link for that because I will certainly use it elsewhere, in particular on Facebook.

"TL is wrong. All Autistics are the result of vaccines, in particular thiomersal. There was no Autism before that was introduced into vaccines. 12 years later, we get Autism noticed officially. And it builds up with the vaccine numbers, and then it exploded when the thiomersal amount was doubled! Trace elements still remain after the supposed removal.

Read up about the Simpsonwood meeting of 1999, and you'll see right there proof of corruption."

Oh boy.

Here are some real facts, buster.

The Wild Boy of Averyon was Autistic. 1790's! Emil Kraepelin wrote about Autism, calling it Youth Dementia in 1893. Eugene Bleuler, in his 1912 paper about schizophrenia, called some of the symptoms "Autistic". All before the invention of thiomersal in 1929!

Thiomersal contains ethyl mercury, not pure mercury, and methyl mercury (which is more toxic than ethyl) is found naturally in fish!! Not only that, there are only 12.5 MICROGRAMS of ethyl mercury (half of the make up of thiomersal) in each vaccine!! And that's the full does, not the trace elements which wouldn't amount to a microgram!

You are misreporting Simpsonwood taking it completely out of context.

PS - No, Eel, I am not back. I'm simply correcting an idiot on a subject that is very close to my heart and soul.

You made that up, TL! Who the hell is the Wild Boy? Emil what? Is that where "Crap" came from? Yeah it was I'll bet! Eugene wasn't writing about Autism because it DIDN'T EXIST!

Mercury is mercury, dickhead. Even 1 microgram is toxic! The fish we eat is treated with the mercury taken out before it's tinned or whatever!

A subject close to your heart and soul huh? Do tell us why that's the case. And lay off Doctor Wakefield. He's been libelled and he's suing and he'll win! Brian Deer and his gang of layabouts will get theirs! With the Italian decision to back him up (shut up, X! You're wrong!)

[Xman]

Mercury occurs naturally in fish

Mercury occurs naturally in the environment and accumulates in the aquatic food chain, including fish, as methyl-mercury. All fish contain some methyl-mercury, but most fish in Australian waters have very low mercury levels.

Mercury content is not reduced by processing techniques such as canning, freezing or cooking.

http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/con ... cury-faqs/

More BS from strikeout

[Xman]

http://theconversation.edu.au/mondays-m ... utism-3739

Wakefield said the vaccine should instead be broken into single components and given at yearly intervals.

We now know Wakefield had good reason to discredit the MMR: he had a patent for a single measles vaccine and he was being paid by lawyers who were assembling a case against MMR manufacturers.

None of these conflicts of interest were revealed when The Lancet paper was submitted for publication – if they were, it would never have been published. As the editor of the Lancet noted, Wakefield’s paper was “fatally flawed.”

Further investigation published this year in the British Medical Journal revealed what Wakefield did wasn’t just bad science, but deliberate fraud.

How dodgy is that! Wakefiled had clear conflicts but didnt disclose them!

[Xman]

The episode also prompted research on possible links between MMR – and vaccines, in general – and autism. Now, 13 years after Wakefield’s paper was published, we have considerable evidence that MMR is not linked to autism.

One of the largest single studies to look for a link came from Denmark and covered all children born from January 1991 through December 1998. The study examined a total of 537,303 children, 82% of whom had been vaccinated for MMR.

It found no association between vaccination and the development of an autistic disorder.

More evidence comes from Japan, which stopped using the trivalent vaccine in 1993 over safety concerns with the anti-mumps component of the MMR formulation.

A study of more than 30,000 children found autism cases continued to rise even after the MMR was withdrawn and replaced with single vaccines, providing strong evidence that the MMR vaccine was not implicated.

Most recently, the United States Institute of Medicine completed an exhaustive review in August 2011 of all the scientific literature and concluded there was no causal relationship between MMR vaccine and autism.

http://theconversation.edu.au/mondays-m ... utism-3739

[Xman]

Results:  The MMR vaccination rate in the city of Yokohama declined significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1992, and not a single vaccination was administered in 1993 or thereafter. In contrast, cumulative incidence of ASD up to age seven increased significantly in the birth cohorts of years 1988 through 1996 and most notably rose dramatically beginning with the birth cohort of 1993.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... DE6.d01t02

Well this is about as conclusive as it gets

[Striker]

Conclusive corruption, X! But then you're a part of the problem by your own admission (being involved in the industry). How much are they paying you to spout this junk?

[Xman]

Conclusive corruption, X! But then you're a part of the problem by your own admission (being involved in the industry). How much are they paying you to spout this junk?

Interesting. I receive no financial benefits from the use of vaccinations. I dont even administer them. How exactly am I corrupt?

How are the Japanese health authorities corrupt when they actually ceased the use of vaccinations and simply published the results?

Think about it for a moment. The drug companies that sell MMR vaccinations wouldn't make nearly enough money to bribe the entire worlds medical profession. Its just tin foil hat stupidity!

[Striker]

You are lying. You are paid by Big Pharma. Japan never stopped vaccinating. They lied as well.

Big Pharma make huge amounts of money.

[Xman]

You are lying. You are paid by Big Pharma. Japan never stopped vaccinating. They lied as well.

Big Pharma make huge amounts of money.

well the cheque must still be in the mail. Can you ask them where it is? It better be a huge amount for me to lie and disregard research though. Then multiply that by millions of healthcare workers and theyll be up for billions of dollars in bribery fees. How exactly would they make a profit?

Japan lied.....

Why didnt Wakefield lie? Seems he had incentive. Plus his one bias publication has been countered by numerous studies from numerous sources. Which is more likely? One rogue medico is corrupt or the entire industry world wide?

[Striker]

Andrew Wakefield's incentive was and is the truth. The real truth. Try it sometime. You'll be truly enlightened. You have been paid and you're still lying. For all the billions handed out in bribes, Big Pharma make TRILLIONS from their core products. That's a profit, right?

By the way, Andrew isn't the only truth teller. There are many, like Lowell Hubbs who runs that website TL slandered, the owners of Natural News, the founder of the Canary Party in the United States Ginger Taylor, Rebecca Carley...and there are bound to be more!

[Xman]

Andrew Wakefield's incentive was and is the truth. The real truth. Try it sometime. You'll be truly enlightened. You have been paid and you're still lying. For all the billions handed out in bribes, Big Pharma make TRILLIONS from their core products. That's a profit, right?

By the way, Andrew isn't the only truth teller. There are many, like Lowell Hubbs who runs that website TL slandered, the owners of Natural News, the founder of the Canary Party in the United States Ginger Taylor, Rebecca Carley...and there are bound to be more!

Prove they make trillions thanks....

Prove they pay bribes thanks...

A few people against vaccinations is nothing compared to the huge amount of evidence world wide is it? Oh but all those people including me are paid to promote this evil product! I earn thousands of dollars in bribes a year to keep quiet about the truth. This means I am actually responsible for all the autistic people in Australia! How do I live with myself?

Interesting how despite my inside knowledge of the truth about vaccinations and autism I was happy to have my own kids and nieces and nephews vaccinated..... why would that be?

If you claim the world are lying and evidence is fake, why isn't your evidence fake?

[Striker]

Combine the revenue and assets of the following for these results

GlaxoSmithKline 68 billion pounds
http://www.gsk.com/investors/reports/q42011/q42011.pdf

Merck 153 billion dollars US
http://www.merck.com/investors/financia ... k-2011.pdf

Pfitzer 255 billion dollars US
http://www.pfizer.com/files/annualrepor ... al2011.pdf

Novartis 175 billion dollars US
http://www.novartis.com/downloads/inves ... 010-en.pdf

Bayer 90 billion Euros
http://www.annualreport2011.bayer.com/e ... -2011.pdfx

Johnson and Johnson 178 billion dollars US
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... kexv13.htm

Sanofi 133 billion Euros
http://en.sanofi-aventis.com/binaries/2 ... -30782.pdf

Hoffman-La Roche 103 billion Francs (Swiss)
http://www.roche.com/fb11e.pdf

AstraZeneca No assets available but revenue was 33 billion dollars US so we can assume double that for 66 billion
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3A ... sOzkAXu2QE

Abbott Labs 98 billion dollars US
http://pdf.secdatabase.com/976/0001047469-12-001216.pdf

Bristol Myers 50 billions dollars US (circa 2009)
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Bristol- ... _Statement

Eli Lilly 57 billion dollars US
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... 0/d10k.htm

Now that's just the top 12! There's even more! But on this alone?
(Note - 68 billion pounds = 103 billion dollars US, 90 billion Euros = 118 billion dollars US, 133 billion Euros = 175 billion dollars US, 103 billion Swiss Francs = 110 billion dollars US)

TOTAL - $1.538 TRILLION DOLLARS US!!!!

And like I said, that's just the top 12! So it's even more than that!

Bribery is paid to hide the truth. As if there would be proof of that but we know it happens. And do you know how many people are against vaccines in total? It's more than just a few and it's increasing as well! Yeah how can you live with yourself? You tell me! The truth is out there. I found it. You deny it's existence because you are paid to. You're paid to vaccinate as well, because if you knew the truth and accepted it you would NEVER vaccinate! Especially not your kids!

[TLPG]

Striker you are really up the creek without a paddle. You're a conspiracy theorist. That's obvious.

Wakefield's lawsuit for libel was thrown out;
http://leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk/2012/0 ... n-grounds/
And it was noted that even if the jurisdiction argument had been established, the defence was all set to defend on the grounds of verifiable truth.

Mercury is NOT mercury when it's diluted like it is with methyl and ethyl! The chemical symbol for mercury is Hg. The formula for ethyl mercury is C2H5Hg (2 and 5 sub scripted of course). The formula for methyl mercury is CH3Hg. Explain THAT!

Finally, do tell me what you got for accounting at school. Any Year 10 student will tell you that Assets have NOTHING TO DO with cash!

[Xman]

Combine the revenue and assets of the following for these results

GlaxoSmithKline 68 billion pounds
http://www.gsk.com/investors/reports/q42011/q42011.pdf

Merck 153 billion dollars US
http://www.merck.com/investors/financia ... k-2011.pdf

Pfitzer 255 billion dollars US
http://www.pfizer.com/files/annualrepor ... al2011.pdf

Novartis 175 billion dollars US
http://www.novartis.com/downloads/inves ... 010-en.pdf

Bayer 90 billion Euros
http://www.annualreport2011.bayer.com/e ... -2011.pdfx

Johnson and Johnson 178 billion dollars US
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... kexv13.htm

Sanofi 133 billion Euros
http://en.sanofi-aventis.com/binaries/2 ... -30782.pdf

Hoffman-La Roche 103 billion Francs (Swiss)
http://www.roche.com/fb11e.pdf

AstraZeneca No assets available but revenue was 33 billion dollars US so we can assume double that for 66 billion
http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE%3A ... sOzkAXu2QE

Abbott Labs 98 billion dollars US
http://pdf.secdatabase.com/976/0001047469-12-001216.pdf

Bristol Myers 50 billions dollars US (circa 2009)
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Bristol- ... _Statement

Eli Lilly 57 billion dollars US
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/ ... 0/d10k.htm

Now that's just the top 12! There's even more! But on this alone?
(Note - 68 billion pounds = 103 billion dollars US, 90 billion Euros = 118 billion dollars US, 133 billion Euros = 175 billion dollars US, 103 billion Swiss Francs = 110 billion dollars US)

TOTAL - $1.538 TRILLION DOLLARS US!!!!

And like I said, that's just the top 12! So it's even more than that!

Bribery is paid to hide the truth. As if there would be proof of that but we know it happens. And do you know how many people are against vaccines in total? It's more than just a few and it's increasing as well! Yeah how can you live with yourself? You tell me! The truth is out there. I found it. You deny it's existence because you are paid to. You're paid to vaccinate as well, because if you knew the truth and accepted it you would NEVER vaccinate! Especially not your kids!

Well lets have a look at Johnson and Johnson in the USA first of all. 178bil for a company that sells hundreds of health products. How much of that would be for MMR vaccinations? I'd say pretty little given MMR is administered once a life time.

in the USA the MMR vaccine costs about $100 per person http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vf ... index.html. Less for profit of say $75 per dose. Multiply that by 4 million births per year http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/births.htm and thats $300mil revenue for MMR vaccine in the USA annually. Not much in the scheme of things

http://www.numberof.net/number-of-doctors-in-usa/ there are 660,000 doctors in the USA. Even if ever cent of profit from the MMR vaccine was used to bribe all these doctors that would only be $450 each. If the vaccine companies took half that and settled for $150,000,000 profit they would only be able to bribe doctors with $225 a year to forget their professional duty to care for patients and inject them with harmful vaccines.

The numbers don't add up do they striker!

The fact is these companies simply do not make enough money from MMR vaccines to bribe every doctor in the world like youre suggesting.