Titans in trouble!

[pussycat]

" Have a look at what welfare has done for Aboriginal Australia. It’s been fantastic hasn’t it?” McGuire said on Triple M radio.

“This is what we’re getting with the AFL.

“If you’ve got clubs who think the only way they can prosper is to meekly put their hands out and maybe get a few crumbs off the table of the AFL, they’re never going to fight their way to the top.”

Kennett said the Magpies, Hawks and Geelong – the AFL’s three most recent premiers – had all been close to extinction within the past 15 years, but had fought their own way out with good business models.

“Unfortunately, for a number of years now, many of those businesses have not been run successfully enough to be sustainable, independent of the mother ship, which is the AFL,” he said of less successful rivals.

Kennett expected at least half the AFL’s clubs would receive special assistance next season.“The chances of them rebounding financially in the next five years is very limited. So we do have an underlying issue. It’s a question of sustainability."[/u]"

[cos789]

pussycat pussycat were are you heading?
The distribution and equalisation problems within the AFL is deserving of it's own thread but to suggest that the AFL's problems compare with that of the 14 nrl clubs that failed to make a profit or sponsorless nrl clubs or CEO less clubs is senseless.But the situation with the tittians goes way past all that.
They are in debt, being sued with current negative income.

A real test of the new commision.
Do they underpin the finances and hold out for the big payout?
Do they go ahead with expansion plans and just hand the GC to the AFL?
One thing is obvious, the nrl cannot have expansion and shore up unprofitable clubs.
The nrl would be nuts to expand the number of teams. Relocation might be an option but that only further
weakens rl in it's "heartlands".

[Xman]

March 22, 2012
THE new Australian Rugby League Commission is discussing the extraordinary option of letting the embattled Gold Coast die and starting from scratch with a new franchise on the south-east Queensland tourist strip.

The ARLC has employed independent auditors from a major Sydney firm who are presently on the Gold Coast and are scheduled to report back this week with a more complete picture of the Titans' financial status.

The club is in dire straits due to debt relating to the Centre of Excellence next to Skilled Park, with some estimations that the total figure owed to financiers the Commonwealth Bank, contractors and others stretches as high as $30 million.

Titans boss Michael Searle, who has a share of nearly 80 per cent in the club, maintains the organisation can get back on track by selling the training facility and property trust, as the football club itself is profitable.

Only three days ago the club signed Dave Taylor to a four-year contract worth a reported $1.8 million. Searle said last night claims that the Titans owe close to $30 million are ''a lie and completely misleading''.

However, the Herald has learnt that a series of options have been drawn up by the ARLC to combat the crisis should the troubles of the Titans' property arm impact gravely on the lifespan of the club.

They include a possible bailout and parachuting in of a new administration to run the Titans or, potentially, to allow the winding-up of the club and establish a replacement entity on the Gold Coast under a new licence. In such a scenario a Gold Coast team could stay in the NRL but possibly with a new name, logo and colours.

The latter is a last-resort alternative as the ARLC is concerned about alienating the public in a competitive sports market where the AFL is driving enormous funding to back their franchise, the Suns.

The members of the ARLC met on Tuesday and the Titans' problems were a key subject. Speaking yesterday, ARLC chief executive David Gallop would not detail the plans being weighed up by the new body running the game but said that auditors would have an assessment of the Titans' financial position shortly.

''Clearly it's a concern and we're in constant dialogue with Michael. There are a range of options but it's too early to say which option will be needed,'' Gallop said. ''It's not appropriate to go into what was discussed [on Tuesday] but clearly the commission were given a full update of where things are at.

''We are currently gathering as much information as we can regarding the financial position of the property investment and the football club. We've got some outside people assisting us with that and hopefully that information will be available in the next few days.''

Searle, one of the architects of the rugby league's independent commission and a visionary who set up the annual All Stars game, has been left to scramble as the Titans' property arm, Gold Coast Titans (Property) Pty Ltd, comes under pressure.

Despite spiralling property prices hitting hard on the anticipated value of the Centre of Excellence, he is adamant the Titans will survive and escape the maelstrom by selling the facility. They also plan to restructure the football club with the introduction of a partly independent board made up of two or three prominent Gold Coast figures as well as those with capital invested in the club.

Searle said last night the decision had been made to sell the Centre of Excellence. He also brushed off concerns that its sale price may not come close to matching the Titans' debt, and that the Titans' future was in immediate danger. ''We've made a decision to get rid of it,'' he said. ''We would only sell it if we eliminated all the debt - we're not going to sell it and say 'we still owe money'. We'll work with our bankers to come up with a solution. It's not as if it's not going to sell.''

Searle admitted he had approached the NRL late last year for funding support but said that was primarily to combat the AFL's insurgency on the Gold Coast. Searle claimed that request was the reason ARLC auditors were in town.

The sale of the Centre of Excellence would, in fact, benefit the football club significantly by easing costs, he said. ''The financial position of the club in 2013 is even stronger than it is in 2012,'' he said. ''We're profitable in 2012 and in '13 we're profitable again and with the [sale] of the property trust relieving the debt, we're $1.5 million a year better off.''

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugb...321-1vkcq.html

Oh dear!

oh thats Hilarious
who wrote this story ... Andy Ididaphoo ?

the ARLC will not abdandon the Gold Coast ... seeing as we're near to running the Thuns outta town
why would we ?

So all the media plus the NRL CEOs of other teams have no idea do they?

Sounds like you have NFI.

[Xman]

" Have a look at what welfare has done for Aboriginal Australia. It’s been fantastic hasn’t it?” McGuire said on Triple M radio.

“This is what we’re getting with the AFL.

“If you’ve got clubs who think the only way they can prosper is to meekly put their hands out and maybe get a few crumbs off the table of the AFL, they’re never going to fight their way to the top.”

Kennett said the Magpies, Hawks and Geelong – the AFL’s three most recent premiers – had all been close to extinction within the past 15 years, but had fought their own way out with good business models.

“Unfortunately, for a number of years now, many of those businesses have not been run successfully enough to be sustainable, independent of the mother ship, which is the AFL,” he said of less successful rivals.

Kennett expected at least half the AFL’s clubs would receive special assistance next season.“The chances of them rebounding financially in the next five years is very limited. So we do have an underlying issue. It’s a question of sustainability."[/u]"

We've already discussed this issue. It revolves around the fact that the richer teams in the AFL have enormous budgets and the less well off teams are trying to keep up. In doing so they are also asking the AFL for assistance. It has nothing to do with viability of AFL clubs.

If you compare the revenue of the smallest AFL clubs you will see they are near 20M and above. This is actually the size of the most wealthy and popular NRL club, the Broncos. I can assure you,of the two codes the AFL is has double the wealth and then some.

[pussycat]

Im not heading anywhere , simply pointing out out that you lot are a bunch of hypocrites! you AFL lovers have got nothing. Your trying to make an issue out of the Titan's situation , yet as Jeff, a former Gay FL president, points out , 3 of your leading clubs have almost gone under in the past 15 years. And more than half of your clubs survive only through handouts.

Our clubs were established to play football - not to make money. The offield situation however is seperate - unlike yours.

David Gallop & the commission have a number of candidates knocking at there door as we speak , with very lucrative and substainable bussiness plans. So don't you go worrying your pretty little head to much about our expansion plans. Deciding which ones not to pick, thats going to be the only hard decision they have to face.

[Raiderdave]

" Have a look at what welfare has done for Aboriginal Australia. It’s been fantastic hasn’t it?” McGuire said on Triple M radio.

“This is what we’re getting with the AFL.

“If you’ve got clubs who think the only way they can prosper is to meekly put their hands out and maybe get a few crumbs off the table of the AFL, they’re never going to fight their way to the top.”

Kennett said the Magpies, Hawks and Geelong – the AFL’s three most recent premiers – had all been close to extinction within the past 15 years, but had fought their own way out with good business models.

“Unfortunately, for a number of years now, many of those businesses have not been run successfully enough to be sustainable, independent of the mother ship, which is the AFL,” he said of less successful rivals.

Kennett expected at least half the AFL’s clubs would receive special assistance next season.“The chances of them rebounding financially in the next five years is very limited. So we do have an underlying issue. It’s a question of sustainability."[/u]"

We've already discussed this issue. It revolves around the fact that the richer teams in the AFL have enormous budgets and the less well off teams are trying to keep up. In doing so they are also asking the AFL for assistance. It has nothing to do with viability of AFL clubs.

If you compare the revenue of the smallest AFL clubs you will see they are near 20M and above. This is actually the size of the most wealthy and popular NRL club, the Broncos. I can assure you,of the two codes the AFL is has double the wealth and then some.

cough ** NFI ** cough

[Xman]

Im not heading anywhere , simply pointing out out that you lot are a bunch of hypocrites! you AFL lovers have got nothing. Your trying to make an issue out of the Titan's situation , yet as Jeff, a former Gay FL president, points out , 3 of your leading clubs have almost gone under in the past 15 years. And more than half of your clubs survive only through handouts.

Our clubs were established to play football - not to make money. The offield situation however is seperate - unlike yours.

David Gallop & the commission have a number of candidates knocking at there door as we speak , with very lucrative and substainable bussiness plans. So don't you go worrying your pretty little head to much about our expansion plans. Deciding which ones not to pick, thats going to be th only hard decision they face.

You are a complete moron!

Jeff Kennet wasn't saying these clubs were in danger of disolving. He was saying they needed to readdress their financial model taking in to account their spending and revenue! They didn't have creditors circling to make them insolvent! These 3 clubs have over 160k members between them and average over 40-50k attendance each! They together bring in close to 170M in revenue. This would equal every Sydney NRL team combined!


The clubs asking for money from the AFL are not to keep them viable but to keep them competitive with the likes of Collingwood.

compare that to the titans who do have massive debt issues and are under real threat of extinction! They have about 6 k members and home crowds of 10k if they're lucky, despite what they claim. Their annual revenue would be 15k max.


Why the hell do you keep banging on about Kennet's comments when he made them with a clear agenda. He wants the AFL to make the clubs more accountable for their spending so they don't need to ask for assistance. It has nothing to do with their viability.

The Titans financial fututre has been questioned by multiple sources, not one NRL president with a chip on his shoulder.

We aren't hypocrits, you're just stupid.

[cos789]

Your trying to make an issue out of the Titan's situation

How long did it take to work that one out?

Jeff points out , 3 of your leading clubs have almost gone under in the past 15 years.

Past tense. Business plans have turned that around.
Tittians are currently in heaps of trouble - that's the issue - that's the post.

Our clubs were established to play football - not to make money.

Are you dumb, a child or naive?
Football clubs have to generate enough income to survive.

David Gallop & the commission have a number of candidates knocking at there door as we speak .

So you prefer to create new clubs and cut GC loose?
Well I guess tittians have no history or tradition so that's no great loss.

[Xman]

Kennett said the Magpies, Hawks and Geelong – the AFL’s three most recent premiers – had all been close to extinction within the past 15 years, but had fought their own way out with good business models.

“Unfortunately, for a number of years now, many of those businesses have not been run successfully enough to be sustainable, independent of the mother ship, which is the AFL,” he said of less successful rivals.

This is the crux of his comments. He wants these clubs to follow the hawkes and implement better business models instead of asking for handouts. The AFL can afford these handouts because in reality they are quite small. But Kennet thinks this is unfair, especially since his club managed to work hard to overcome the same challenge.

Reading more into it is complete stupidity.

[cos789]

This is the crux of his comments. He wants these clubs to follow the hawkes and implement better business models instead of asking for handouts.

The two facts are that there will always be better and worse performing models.
Hawthorn's plan actually used assistance by playing in Tasmania.

I don't see how does this help the titians?
They have a debt and are being chsed by creditors.
They are simply not attracting enough paying spectators to the games.
Selling home games IMO wouldn't be satisfactory.
Plan A,B&C seems to be to hang out for the big payout.

[pussycat]

" Have a look at what welfare has done for Aboriginal Australia. It’s been fantastic hasn’t it?” McGuire said on Triple M radio.

“This is what we’re getting with the AFL.

“If you’ve got clubs who think the only way they can prosper is to meekly put their hands out and maybe get a few crumbs off the table of the AFL, they’re never going to fight their way to the top.”

Kennett said the Magpies, Hawks and Geelong – the AFL’s three most recent premiers – had all been close to extinction within the past 15 years, but had fought their own way out with good business models.

“Unfortunately, for a number of years now, many of those businesses have not been run successfully enough to be sustainable, independent of the mother ship, which is the AFL,” he said of less successful rivals.

Kennett expected at least half the AFL’s clubs would receive special assistance next season.“The chances of them rebounding financially in the next five years is very limited. So we do have an underlying issue. It’s a question of sustainability."[/u]"

We've already discussed this issue. It revolves around the fact that the richer teams in the AFL have enormous budgets and the less well off teams are trying to keep up. In doing so they are also asking the AFL for assistance. It has nothing to do with viability of AFL clubs.

If you compare the revenue of the smallest AFL clubs you will see they are near 20M and above. This is actually the size of the most wealthy and popular NRL club, the Broncos. I can assure you,of the two codes the AFL is has double the wealth and then some.

Whether we've discussed it or not , doesn't make it any less relevant . And just serves to highlight just what hypocrites AFL fans are.

Ramble on all with all the excuses you like . It wont change the fact that your competitions is a mess. Its Miles from a level playing field and most of your clubs only survive through handouts.

If these clubs, you speak of have all this money, that you make out they have, why are the clubs the getting assistance???

[cos789]

It wont change the fact that your competitions is a mess.

Are you a dumb moron or a child who hasn't a grasp of economics?

Its Miles from a level playing field

Yes, there will always be more and less successful clubs.

most of your clubs only survive through handouts.

Most? So you haven't attended school yet to know the difference from "most" to a "few".

If these clubs, you speak of have all this money, that you make out they have, why are the clubs the getting assistance???

Because the AFL = the clubs. The clubs are only getting their own money back.
The AFL arbitarily draws a line and some clubs are under it.

The tittians are different situation.
They're in debt.
They're being hounded by creditors,
They don't generate enough income.
The nrl clubs are reluctant to further finance their flambouyant player buying spree.
The nrl doesn't have the money as such.

Hope&prey for the big payout.

[Xman]

" Have a look at what welfare has done for Aboriginal Australia. It’s been fantastic hasn’t it?” McGuire said on Triple M radio.

“This is what we’re getting with the AFL.

“If you’ve got clubs who think the only way they can prosper is to meekly put their hands out and maybe get a few crumbs off the table of the AFL, they’re never going to fight their way to the top.”

Kennett said the Magpies, Hawks and Geelong – the AFL’s three most recent premiers – had all been close to extinction within the past 15 years, but had fought their own way out with good business models.

“Unfortunately, for a number of years now, many of those businesses have not been run successfully enough to be sustainable, independent of the mother ship, which is the AFL,” he said of less successful rivals.

Kennett expected at least half the AFL’s clubs would receive special assistance next season.“The chances of them rebounding financially in the next five years is very limited. So we do have an underlying issue. It’s a question of sustainability."[/u]"

We've already discussed this issue. It revolves around the fact that the richer teams in the AFL have enormous budgets and the less well off teams are trying to keep up. In doing so they are also asking the AFL for assistance. It has nothing to do with viability of AFL clubs.

If you compare the revenue of the smallest AFL clubs you will see they are near 20M and above. This is actually the size of the most wealthy and popular NRL club, the Broncos. I can assure you,of the two codes the AFL is has double the wealth and then some.

Whether we've discussed it or not , doesn't make it any less relevant . And just serves to highlight just what hypocrites AFL fans are.

Ramble on all with all the excuses you like . It wont change the fact that your competitions is a mess. Its Miles from a level playing field and most of your clubs only survive through handouts.

If these clubs, you speak of have all this money, that you make out they have, why are the clubs the getting assistance???

They get assistance to try and match the spending by clubs with more revenue. Melbourne asked for assistance last year, or the year before. Yet They had a revenue of 25m last year, 5m more than the Broncos!

On field the AFL is relatively even as far as performance opportunities goes,because of the salary cap and draft. This excludes new teams which will take a number of years to be fully competitive which is understandable.

Off field the stronger and larger clubs like collingwood, essendon, Carlton, Richmond, hawthorn, Sydney, westcoast, Adelaide, Geelong are wealthier and more popular than the others. This is also repeated in the NrL.

However, there are only a few financially struggling AFL clubs: North Melbourne, St Kilda, Port Power, Melbourne and the Bulldogs. They still have good memberships and crowds, especially when compared to the NrL, but in trying to keep up with the richer clubs in facilities and opportunities they have asked for assistance from the AFL. This is what Kennet is complaining about. These teams are not in danger of folding due to lack of following or revenue. They are desperately trying to keep up with AFL clubs that have massive turnovers, more than twice the Broncos.

The NrL on the other hand has seen many many clubs fold due to lack of support and funds. The Titans are heading down this track. The Panthers don't even have a CEO. the raiders have no major sponsor.

The comparison is stark! The NRL is not in a financial position to assist these teams. The AFL are in a position to give assistance to the AFL teams, not to keep them viable, but to keep the opportunities and facilities more evenly available.

[Beaussie]

the ARLC will not abdandon the Gold Coast ... seeing as we're near to running the Thuns outta town
why would we ?

Oh deary me. You believe that too no doubt.

[eelofwest]

Fancy hoping the government of a third world country will bail you out. Disgraceful Searle and co at the Titans. Disgraceful.

Mr Searle has stretched the titans budget to thin, now he might loose there center for excellence that GC worked so hard for. Fuken moron.

I do wander how much the center is worth anybody know?