Tanking in AFL, coaches speak out.

[TLPG]

You embarass every true AFL supporter who really understands the game, Pookus. And you insulted local football by calling it a business. Community is what keeps it alive at that level and don't you forget it. McClean clearly doesn't know what went on at Melbourne really. He just assumes it from his own far more limited experience than certainly mine. Playing at an AFL club is no different than a local club because they play under the same rules on the field. Note I said "on the field".

Good that I won't hear from you again - because you offered nothing to counter my valid argument back with evidence derived from watching the game since 1972 and being involved since 1983. I stand up for what's right. You are yet to prove I am wrong with bona fide evidence and obviously now you won't whether there is any or not. The fact that you are walking away proves you have nothing.

[King-Eliagh]

=D>

Good job folks a great fight if i do say so myself. TLPG provided his own puny perspective and pranced around the ring kissing his flabby biceps with delusions of grandeur. Pookus provided inside AFL knowledge and insight and thumped the vain TLPG on all aspects of the debate.

A unanimous decision in favour of pookus. =D> =D> =D>

[eelofwest]

=D>

Good job folks a great fight if i do say so myself. TLPG provided his own puny perspective and pranced around the ring kissing his flabby biceps with delusions of grandeur. Pookus provided inside AFL knowledge and insight and thumped the vain TLPG on all aspects of the debate.

A unanimous decision in favour of pookus. =D> =D> =D>

Totally agree, Pookus has just humiliated his own..and with good reason...

It's a knockout in the 1st round King...

[Xman]

=D>

Good job folks a great fight if i do say so myself. TLPG provided his own puny perspective and pranced around the ring kissing his flabby biceps with delusions of grandeur. Pookus provided inside AFL knowledge and insight and thumped the vain TLPG on all aspects of the debate.

A unanimous decision in favour of pookus. =D> =D> =D>

Totally agree, Pookus has just humiliated his own..and with good reason...

It's a knockout in the 1st round King...

humiliated? All he has given is heresay which effects one team in one season in a few games.

[TLPG]

Pookus was the humiliated one, KE, but then you can't see that because you are so incredibly biased. Who ran for it? Pookus.

And he questions my manhood? HAH!

[pookus]

You embarass every true AFL supporter who really understands the game, Pookus. And you insulted local football by calling it a business. Community is what keeps it alive at that level and don't you forget it. McClean clearly doesn't know what went on at Melbourne really. He just assumes it from his own far more limited experience than certainly mine. Playing at an AFL club is no different than a local club because they play under the same rules on the field. Note I said "on the field".

Good that I won't hear from you again - because you offered nothing to counter my valid argument back with evidence derived from watching the game since 1972 and being involved since 1983. I stand up for what's right. You are yet to prove I am wrong with bona fide evidence and obviously now you won't whether there is any or not. The fact that you are walking away proves you have nothing.

Listen you weak little man.You umpire because you cant play simple.All you have done is wheel out the company line.Weak little maggots like yourself will always defend the boss even when it is obvious.You will never be half the sportsman brock is you will always be on officious little *****.If I embarass AFL supporters then Leigh Mathews Terry Wallace and 90% of melbournes media is with me.A closed minded little maggot like yourself is incapable of having a legit argument because you will lie and make aspertions to better your cause.You have not made a valid point but to call someone you have nothing to do with a liar.It is the domain of the weak which you obviously are,That is why you said KE should get a punch in the head but your not BRAVE enough to do it yourself.I didnt call local mfooty business moron I said AFL is big business local footy is community.The only point which is valid that you made is there is no proof.Brock is proof but you weakly trash his good name so you look better.That behaviour deserves a smack in the head.I would happily dish that out myself.DOG

[Xman]

You embarass every true AFL supporter who really understands the game, Pookus. And you insulted local football by calling it a business. Community is what keeps it alive at that level and don't you forget it. McClean clearly doesn't know what went on at Melbourne really. He just assumes it from his own far more limited experience than certainly mine. Playing at an AFL club is no different than a local club because they play under the same rules on the field. Note I said "on the field".

Good that I won't hear from you again - because you offered nothing to counter my valid argument back with evidence derived from watching the game since 1972 and being involved since 1983. I stand up for what's right. You are yet to prove I am wrong with bona fide evidence and obviously now you won't whether there is any or not. The fact that you are walking away proves you have nothing.

Listen you weak little man.You umpire because you cant play simple.All you have done is wheel out the company line.Weak little maggots like yourself will always defend the boss even when it is obvious.You will never be half the sportsman brock is you will always be on officious little *****.If I embarass AFL supporters then Leigh Mathews Terry Wallace and 90% of melbournes media is with me.A closed minded little maggot like yourself is incapable of having a legit argument because you will lie and make aspertions to better your cause.You have not made a valid point but to call someone you have nothing to do with a liar.It is the domain of the weak which you obviously are,That is why you said KE should get a punch in the head but your not BRAVE enough to do it yourself.I didnt call local mfooty business moron I said AFL is big business local footy is community.The only point which is valid that you made is there is no proof.Brock is proof but you weakly trash his good name so you look better.That behaviour deserves a smack in the head.I would happily dish that out myself.DOG

again, Brock never said Melbourne were deliberatelyn losing games. Otherwise they would have been punished already.

Plus if what you say is true and everyone knows bottom AFL teams tank then why the hell did he leave one tanking team to go to another?

[TLPG]

Ooooh Pookus didn't like being called out!

Listen you weak little man.You umpire because you cant play simple.

Petty put down. There are many examples of players umpiring footy. Mark Fraser became an umpire after he played AFL. Only a coward would make such a ridiculous and stereotypical remark.

All you have done is wheel out the company line.Weak little maggots like yourself will always defend the boss even when it is obvious.You will never be half the sportsman brock is you will always be on officious little *****.

I said this before. I will criticise the AFL when it needs to be. This is not one of those times, because in this case the so called "company line" is actually correct. No, it's not obvious - because if it was Melbourne would have been punished.

If I embarass AFL supporters then Leigh Mathews Terry Wallace and 90% of melbournes media is with me.

You are relying on the media? All they are doing is running with innuendo simply because it makes good print, not because any of it is true. At no point did anyone, let alone Matthews or Wallace, claim that Melbourne were setting out to lose. At worst they criticised the experimentation and it's timing and nothing more.

A closed minded little maggot like yourself is incapable of having a legit argument because you will lie and make aspertions to better your cause.

I have not lied once, and the closed mind is yours.

You have not made a valid point but to call someone you have nothing to do with a liar.It is the domain of the weak which you obviously are,

It is the domain of the weak - and that's you. I have made plenty of valid points, and you have chosen out of petty childish spite to ignore me.

That is why you said KE should get a punch in the head but your not BRAVE enough to do it yourself.

Only thugs do that. I'm not a thug. Thugs are not brave. I only suggested it for KE because at this point there appears to be no other choice to make him see sense. That doesn't mean I like it. I don't. And in the case of KE it's not just about him slandering the AFL. It's about a number of other lies as well.

I didnt call local mfooty business moron I said AFL is big business local footy is community.

Football is football, no matter who is playing it. There's community in the AFL clubs. They wouldn't survive without it.

The only point which is valid that you made is there is no proof.Brock is proof but you weakly trash his good name so you look better.That behaviour deserves a smack in the head.I would happily dish that out myself.DOG

McClean's name is already trashed by his own mouth. As you said, there is no proof. Until there is, innocent until proven guilty is the rule that stands. And just for the record, all smacking me in the head will show is that I'm right and the coward who hit me can't hack being out debated.

[Xman]

TLPG and Pookus, time to stop the person attacks or Ill be forced to lock the thread.

[pookus]

You embarass every true AFL supporter who really understands the game, Pookus. And you insulted local football by calling it a business. Community is what keeps it alive at that level and don't you forget it. McClean clearly doesn't know what went on at Melbourne really. He just assumes it from his own far more limited experience than certainly mine. Playing at an AFL club is no different than a local club because they play under the same rules on the field. Note I said "on the field".

Good that I won't hear from you again - because you offered nothing to counter my valid argument back with evidence derived from watching the game since 1972 and being involved since 1983. I stand up for what's right. You are yet to prove I am wrong with bona fide evidence and obviously now you won't whether there is any or not. The fact that you are walking away proves you have nothing.

Listen you weak little man.You umpire because you cant play simple.All you have done is wheel out the company line.Weak little maggots like yourself will always defend the boss even when it is obvious.You will never be half the sportsman brock is you will always be on officious little *****.If I embarass AFL supporters then Leigh Mathews Terry Wallace and 90% of melbournes media is with me.A closed minded little maggot like yourself is incapable of having a legit argument because you will lie and make aspertions to better your cause.You have not made a valid point but to call someone you have nothing to do with a liar.It is the domain of the weak which you obviously are,That is why you said KE should get a punch in the head but your not BRAVE enough to do it yourself.I didnt call local mfooty business moron I said AFL is big business local footy is community.The only point which is valid that you made is there is no proof.Brock is proof but you weakly trash his good name so you look better.That behaviour deserves a smack in the head.I would happily dish that out myself.DOG

again, Brock never said Melbourne were deliberatelyn losing games. Otherwise they would have been punished already.

Plus if what you say is true and everyone knows bottom AFL teams tank then why the hell did he leave one tanking team to go to another?

They didnt try to win thats the point he was making,simple.I dont think everyone has tanked I think these guys did because a guy that I know to be a stand up bloke said it.Now again you can put your head in the sand like your mate trash brock like your mate or you can join the rest of us who are outraged and caused the AFL to change the rule.If it was up to you and that other idiot we wouldnt question we wouldnt doubt and nothing would change.IMO Aussie rules is the best game in the world but that doesnt mean that the administrators should go unchallenged when they do something stupid.Thank god there are more of me than you and the AFL through sheer weight of numbers changed the rule.They would never have done this without people like brock and myself asking if this is best for the game.The fact they changed the rule means that I am among the majority who thinks something shouldve been done.I love our game and I will defend its integrity when threatened.Believe me perception is reality and the AFL had to fix this and to there credit they have.But that doesnt mean that the initial idea wasnt a bad mistake it was.I can proudly say my team never got a priority pick and now thanks to people like brock they never will.

[Xman]

Listen you weak little man.You umpire because you cant play simple.All you have done is wheel out the company line.Weak little maggots like yourself will always defend the boss even when it is obvious.You will never be half the sportsman brock is you will always be on officious little *****.If I embarass AFL supporters then Leigh Mathews Terry Wallace and 90% of melbournes media is with me.A closed minded little maggot like yourself is incapable of having a legit argument because you will lie and make aspertions to better your cause.You have not made a valid point but to call someone you have nothing to do with a liar.It is the domain of the weak which you obviously are,That is why you said KE should get a punch in the head but your not BRAVE enough to do it yourself.I didnt call local mfooty business moron I said AFL is big business local footy is community.The only point which is valid that you made is there is no proof.Brock is proof but you weakly trash his good name so you look better.That behaviour deserves a smack in the head.I would happily dish that out myself.DOG

again, Brock never said Melbourne were deliberatelyn losing games. Otherwise they would have been punished already.

Plus if what you say is true and everyone knows bottom AFL teams tank then why the hell did he leave one tanking team to go to another?

They didnt try to win thats the point he was making,simple.I dont think everyone has tanked I think these guys did because a guy that I know to be a stand up bloke said it.Now again you can put your head in the sand like your mate trash brock like your mate or you can join the rest of us who are outraged and caused the AFL to change the rule.If it was up to you and that other idiot we wouldnt question we wouldnt doubt and nothing would change.IMO Aussie rules is the best game in the world but that doesnt mean that the administrators should go unchallenged when they do something stupid.Thank god there are more of me than you and the AFL through sheer weight of numbers changed the rule.They would never have done this without people like brock and myself asking if this is best for the game.The fact they changed the rule means that I am among the majority who thinks something shouldve been done.I love our game and I will defend its integrity when threatened.Believe me perception is reality and the AFL had to fix this and to there credit they have.But that doesnt mean that the initial idea wasnt a bad mistake it was.I can proudly say my team never got a priority pick and now thanks to people like brock they never will.

Im not really trashing Brock. Im saying that he never admitted to tanking. He hinted that Melbourne didnt prioritise winning as their number one aim in a round about sort of way.

And his comments were questioned in the media by many people who also noted that he took a high moral ground against Melbourne only to go to a team in a similar position that displayed similar behaviour.

[Xman]

The blowtorch came as former Melbourne president Paul Gardner said he had no doubt the club was tanking to gain draft picks in 2008 and 2009.

"They were clearly tanking," Gardner told the Herald Sun yesterday.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/AFL/AFL-to- ... 6438966390

This doesnt look good!

If this is true then Melbourne were indeed tanking and should be heavily penalised!

Its one thing to have a crap list but tanking for draft picks is cheating and is unfair on all the other struggling teams who genuinely deserve early draft picks too. The stupid thing is, where has it got them? theyre still crap 4 yerars later with no real sign of improving. What a waste of these years for their supporters.

I genuinely believed tanking was a myth but looking at these comments from the ex president it looks like Melbourne are one of few exceptions and were indeed guilty. Its a real shame. I actually know Dean Bailey. He was in the year above me at my school. Its very unfortunate that he was put in this very difficult position which potentially compromised his career as a coach.

[pookus]

Ooooh Pookus didn't like being called out!

Listen you weak little man.You umpire because you cant play simple.

Petty put down. There are many examples of players umpiring footy. Mark Fraser became an umpire after he played AFL. Only a coward would make such a ridiculous and stereotypical remark.

All you have done is wheel out the company line.Weak little maggots like yourself will always defend the boss even when it is obvious.You will never be half the sportsman brock is you will always be on officious little *****.

I said this before. I will criticise the AFL when it needs to be. This is not one of those times, because in this case the so called "company line" is actually correct. No, it's not obvious - because if it was Melbourne would have been punished.

If I embarass AFL supporters then Leigh Mathews Terry Wallace and 90% of melbournes media is with me.

You are relying on the media? All they are doing is running with innuendo simply because it makes good print, not because any of it is true. At no point did anyone, let alone Matthews or Wallace, claim that Melbourne were setting out to lose. At worst they criticised the experimentation and it's timing and nothing more.

A closed minded little maggot like yourself is incapable of having a legit argument because you will lie and make aspertions to better your cause.

I have not lied once, and the closed mind is yours.

You have not made a valid point but to call someone you have nothing to do with a liar.It is the domain of the weak which you obviously are,

It is the domain of the weak - and that's you. I have made plenty of valid points, and you have chosen out of petty childish spite to ignore me.

That is why you said KE should get a punch in the head but your not BRAVE enough to do it yourself.

Only thugs do that. I'm not a thug. Thugs are not brave. I only suggested it for KE because at this point there appears to be no other choice to make him see sense. That doesn't mean I like it. I don't. And in the case of KE it's not just about him slandering the AFL. It's about a number of other lies as well.

I didnt call local mfooty business moron I said AFL is big business local footy is community.

Football is football, no matter who is playing it. There's community in the AFL clubs. They wouldn't survive without it.

The only point which is valid that you made is there is no proof.Brock is proof but you weakly trash his good name so you look better.That behaviour deserves a smack in the head.I would happily dish that out myself.DOG

McClean's name is already trashed by his own mouth. As you said, there is no proof. Until there is, innocent until proven guilty is the rule that stands. And just for the record, all smacking me in the head will show is that I'm right and the coward who hit me can't hack being out debated.

1]Im talking about you not Mark Fraser.Set me straihght have you ever played or have you always been a spectator,im guessing by your smug officious approach it is the latter.

2]When have you criticised the AFL,show me once.As I have stated just because there is no smoking gun doesnt mean it didnt happen.The fact is I have a witness and you have squat. How the hell does being an umpire give you credability in this argument, your a fool.And this is far from over trust me.

3]Please apart from sheer denial what point have you shown any proof that this didnt happen.Give me one example where you can say see I told you.You cant you have nothing and I have an inside witness which you want to trash to better your weak little ass. If you can find one person to back mup your claim that Brock is a Liar I will apologise and say I am wrong.You wont find one because they dont exist.

4]Dont call for punishment if you havent got the stomach to dish it out yourself.Rule number one of Mans club.

5]AFL is a billion dollar business if you think joe black from the hampton league could step in and run it then you are truly one roo short in the top paddock.

6]Since I have been reading this forum you have been rude insulting and provided very little.I must say that even though we sit on different sides of the fence KE has shown the ability to be way more open minded than yours truly. The only debate you have evr one is the Mass kind

[TLPG]

1]Im talking about you not Mark Fraser.Set me straihght have you ever played or have you always been a spectator,im guessing by your smug officious approach it is the latter.

It is the former - at school.

2]When have you criticised the AFL,show me once.As I have stated just because there is no smoking gun doesnt mean it didnt happen.The fact is I have a witness and you have squat. How the hell does being an umpire give you credability in this argument, your a fool.And this is far from over trust me.

There is no smoking gun because it DIDN'T happen (the story above from Xman could well be from a disgruntled former official). I have criticised the AFL for going to Sydney for a second team before going to Tasmania. In fact I called West Sydney a dumb move from the get go. I have criticised the AFL for their "production line", where all their money goes. None goes to anything outside of that. They think that state bodies should look after that - and that's wrong. At various times in history they have put game development ahead of club development - when only New South Wales and Queensland needed it. My umpiring and my research puts me in touch with clubs and leagues of various varieties over a long period of time. As an umpire I had to deal with club officials with paperwork, whether it be team sheets or as required reports - and anything else on match day that may come up. In some cases it is up to the umpires to report the matter to the league because we are neutral. My research allows me to talk about club issues, and more importantly listen to what I'm being told. The variety puts me in an ideal neutral position to make judgements on several different issues. All that puts me way ahead of your "witness".

Far from over? Is that a threat? Come at me!

3]Please apart from sheer denial what point have you shown any proof that this didnt happen.Give me one example where you can say see I told you.You cant you have nothing and I have an inside witness which you want to trash to better your weak little ass. If you can find one person to back mup your claim that Brock is a Liar I will apologise and say I am wrong.You wont find one because they dont exist.

The AFL is doing a follow up investigation as a result of McClean's comments. And now we have this thing above. Let's see what the result of the investigation is before making a final decision either way. Or don't you have the guts to admit that the rule is innocent until proven guilty? You are not a judge, so stop behaving like one.

4]Dont call for punishment if you havent got the stomach to dish it out yourself.Rule number one of Mans club.

You are a bully, and therefore not a man. If you were a man, you'd admit that there is too much doubt and stop being a judge like I said.

5]AFL is a billion dollar business if you think joe black from the hampton league could step in and run it then you are truly one roo short in the top paddock.

As long as it's in another area away from the money handling - you bet "Joe Black" could do it. I could do it!

6]Since I have been reading this forum you have been rude insulting and provided very little.I must say that even though we sit on different sides of the fence KE has shown the ability to be way more open minded than yours truly. The only debate you have evr one is the Mass kind

KE open minded????? You don't know him very well do you?

Are you sure you aren't a closet thugby supporter? You're a joke. I've won most fights in here, and you are my latest victim. Slaughtered on experience in the great game of footy from a point of view that you have no respect for. An umpire and a historian. And a person who pays attention and takes in all sides and decides what is the truth. You choose not to believe me. Too bad if you don't want to listen to me. It shows that you aren't interested in another person's point of view because you've already decided that Melbourne are guilty. You have no right to press such a judgment on me. You are not a judge.

[pookus]

The blowtorch came as former Melbourne president Paul Gardner said he had no doubt the club was tanking to gain draft picks in 2008 and 2009.

"They were clearly tanking," Gardner told the Herald Sun yesterday.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/AFL/AFL-to- ... 6438966390

This doesnt look good!

If this is true then Melbourne were indeed tanking and should be heavily penalised!

Its one thing to have a crap list but tanking for draft picks is cheating and is unfair on all the other struggling teams who genuinely deserve early draft picks too. The stupid thing is, where has it got them? theyre still crap 4 yerars later with no real sign of improving. What a waste of these years for their supporters.

I genuinely believed tanking was a myth but looking at these comments from the ex president it looks like Melbourne are one of few exceptions and were indeed guilty. Its a real shame. I actually know Dean Bailey. He was in the year above me at my school. Its very unfortunate that he was put in this very difficult position which potentially compromised his career as a coach.

I think you blokes owe Brock an apology.You trashed a good man and that is what upset me.You are entitled to your opinion and I love a good blue.But not at the expense of a good man.Excellent timing Mr Gardener but I suppose hell be called an idiot and a liar too.