Talking Footy

TLPG wrote:

Actually, Pies, it's not for the reasons Xman stated. Your view point and his are the ONLY valid opinion because it's correct in practice. Eel's insistence of going with win-loss ratios is doomed to fail because it relies on a corresponding margin each game. And that is a fail from the get go due to it not taking into account close games and thumpings. In that respect, the Suns and the Giants are standing up well against the also rans of the NRL.

I agree with most of what you are saying I think that comparing the percentages is a better system then comparing win loss for the reasons you state. In my opinion and it is only my opinion I believe that Eels comparison of win/loss is valid altough not as much so, because teams will play their best when they think that have to do so to win. While when they are comfortably winning they may take their foot off and let the other team come back into it.

piesman2011 wrote:

I agree some what with what you are trying to say (even though it is just for trolling purposes). I believe that the AFL should have given 5-10 draft picks to GWS and GC with the only option being that they could swap them for experienced players with more then 5 years playing experience. Some of the young kids will cop a beating playing in positions that their bodies are not ready for. This may shorten their careers.

Pies, this is actually indicative of a problem that is more general than just the Suns and the Giants - especially in Victoria. Lack of experience in open age footy. In fact there are players for both clubs that are better off than some of the players recruited via the draft from Victoria. When the Suns were first formed, they played in AFL Queensland and then the VFL before their AFL debut two years in. The Giants followed the same path through AFL Canberra and the North East AFL. So the kids had two years more experience in open age footy than any of their peers from Victoria.

I've always been a critic of the Victorian tactic - that one can go from the TAC Cup to the AFL. That's how they lose a lot of the kids. They should be playing local grass roots. There was one story I heard during the State Government's enquiry into the state of regional footy a few years ago (I even put a couple of submissions in) where a kid was playing TAC Cup and was one of their best players. But when he went back to his home club in East Gippsland he was treated like dirt at the selection table for his club's grand final - simply because he hadn't played enough games to be considered even if he did play enough games to qualify for selection.

This isn't the case with the Suns and the Giants with the players they first drafted - even before they picked up Karmichael Hunt and Israel Folau respectively. The only difference is that the AFL is one step up further than either the VFL or the NEAFL (especially the latter).

Players from WA and SA on the other hand have the chance to play senior state league football, and most have (ie Nic Natanui).

Just needed to make that point.

TLPG wrote:

piesman2011 wrote:

I agree some what with what you are trying to say (even though it is just for trolling purposes). I believe that the AFL should have given 5-10 draft picks to GWS and GC with the only option being that they could swap them for experienced players with more then 5 years playing experience. Some of the young kids will cop a beating playing in positions that their bodies are not ready for. This may shorten their careers.

Pies, this is actually indicative of a problem that is more general than just the Suns and the Giants - especially in Victoria. Lack of experience in open age footy. In fact there are players for both clubs that are better off than some of the players recruited via the draft from Victoria. When the Suns were first formed, they played in AFL Queensland and then the VFL before their AFL debut two years in. The Giants followed the same path through AFL Canberra and the North East AFL. So the kids had two years more experience in open age footy than any of their peers from Victoria.

I've always been a critic of the Victorian tactic - that one can go from the TAC Cup to the AFL. That's how they lose a lot of the kids. They should be playing local grass roots. There was one story I heard during the State Government's enquiry into the state of regional footy a few years ago (I even put a couple of submissions in) where a kid was playing TAC Cup and was one of their best players. But when he went back to his home club in East Gippsland he was treated like dirt at the selection table for his club's grand final - simply because he hadn't played enough games to be considered even if he did play enough games to qualify for selection.

This isn't the case with the Suns and the Giants with the players they first drafted - even before they picked up Karmichael Hunt and Israel Folau respectively. The only difference is that the AFL is one step up further than either the VFL or the NEAFL (especially the latter).

Players from WA and SA on the other hand have the chance to play senior state league football, and most have (ie Nic Natanui).

Just needed to make that point.

You obviously have a lot more experience and more passion about this subject then me TLPG, an interesting insight.

piesman2011 wrote:

King-Eliagh wrote:

Thw blind faith some of these AFL supporters, and expert commentators on tv for that matter, seem to have in this "bunch of teenagers" becoming the goods in 3 years time is quite funny. I was reading an article on the st kilda team some months ago and i cant remember the exact percentage but its around 25% or less of all players who make the AFL go on to have careers spanning more than 5 years. 25%! So on that we've got 1/4 of the GWS side who will continue on in the game and even less than that will be above average players.

Excellent point however it is flawed. Have you checked the percentages of players in the top 30 draft picks? It would be a lot closer to 80%. Every year the AFL has 3 drafts and a trading period. 2 of these drafts are mostly for new players in which a total of about 160 players are picked up each year. GWS and GoldCoast have most of their players from the top 30 draft picks (they probabaly have a whole team of them). Most of whom will make it well beyond the 5 year mark.

Ah didnt think about that. Interesting so will have to wait and see then. But as you say those little lads are copping beltings each week which cant be good for their confidence and growth.

Thank you, Pies. Nice to know that my practical experience going back to the 80's isn't being wasted.

King-Eliagh wrote:

piesman2011 wrote:

King-Eliagh wrote:

Thw blind faith some of these AFL supporters, and expert commentators on tv for that matter, seem to have in this "bunch of teenagers" becoming the goods in 3 years time is quite funny. I was reading an article on the st kilda team some months ago and i cant remember the exact percentage but its around 25% or less of all players who make the AFL go on to have careers spanning more than 5 years. 25%! So on that we've got 1/4 of the GWS side who will continue on in the game and even less than that will be above average players.

Excellent point however it is flawed. Have you checked the percentages of players in the top 30 draft picks? It would be a lot closer to 80%. Every year the AFL has 3 drafts and a trading period. 2 of these drafts are mostly for new players in which a total of about 160 players are picked up each year. GWS and GoldCoast have most of their players from the top 30 draft picks (they probabaly have a whole team of them). Most of whom will make it well beyond the 5 year mark.

Ah didnt think about that. Interesting so will have to wait and see then. But as you say those little lads are copping beltings each week which cant be good for their confidence and growth.

They will start winning and gaining confidence. High draft picks in st kilda, collingwood and Geelong suffered massive defeats in their first years of AFL. Hasn't stopped them becoming great players.

The rise of the suns and giants will be entertaining to watch.

Sheezus, anyone catch the results in the AFL comp this weekend? Ivel made it easier for those who missed em below.

Hawthorne 180
Essendon 86

Geelong 102
Adelaide 75

North melb 127
Melb 73

GWS 54
Collingwood 174


Carlton 95
Richmond 91

Gold Coast 54
Sydney 126

Port Adelaide 48
Fremantle 75

St Kilda 118
Western Bulldogs 42


West Coast 175
Brisbane 77


Only one game was closer than 5 goals! And a whopping 6 games were won by more than 10 goals!!! Can anyone recall a round in the history of the comp that was this lopsided???

Its gotta be terrible for ratings...I gave up watching hawthorne and essendon after the first quarter and switched to catch the RL, which was great and competitive.

This is what the NRL ladder looks like if it were 4 points for a win as in the AFL.

NRL Round 21

W L D B PD Pts
1 Bulldogs 14 5 0 2 170 64
2 Rabbitohs 13 6 0 2 103 60
3 Storm 12 7 0 2 147 56
4 Cowboys 11 8 0 2 82 52
5 Broncos 11 8 0 2 62 52
6 Sea Eagles 11 8 0 2 35 52
7 Sharks 10 8 1 2 -12 50
8 Titans 9 10 0 2 -2 44
9 Knights 9 10 0 2 -4 44
10 Tigers 9 10 0 2 -35 44
11 Dragons 9 10 0 2 -50 44
12 Warriors 8 11 0 2 23 40
13 Raiders 8 11 0 2 -69 40
14 Roosters 6 12 1 2 -154 34
15 Panthers 6 13 0 2 -125 32
16 Eels 5wins 14 0 2 -171 28 Just smashed the 4th Spot Brisbane broncos at Suncorp... =D>

AFL

Round 18 another possible 12 points to add to those top sides...

P W D L % Pts
1 Sydney 17 14 0 3 151.31 56
2 Hawthorn 17 13 0 4 160.09 52
3 Adelaide 17 13 0 4 129.42 52
4 Collingwood 17 13 0 4 123.82 52
5 West Coast 17 12 0 5 130.49 48
6 Geelong 17 11 0 6 115.04 44
7 Essendon 17 11 0 6 113.25 44
8 North Melbourne 17 10 0 7 110.59 40
9 Fremantle 17 10 0 7 106.90 40
10 St Kilda 17 9 0 8 121.88 36
11 Carlton 17 9 0 8 104.76 36
12 Richmond 17 7 0 10 105.58 28
13 Brisbane 17 7 0 10 88.06 28
14 Port Adelaide 17 5 0 12 81.66 20
15 Bulldogs 17 5 0 12 72.34 20
16 Melbourne 17 2 0 15 63.78 8
17 Gold Coast 17 1 0 16 57.58 4
18 Greater Western Sydney 17 1 0 16 41.18 4


Now open your eyes and make a comparison.

All this and the NRL has more upsets week in week out. =D>


Update

AFL Blowouts 2012

Round 1
GWS 37 - 100 SYD, GCS 68 - 137 ADE
Round 2
BRI 63 - 154 CAR, WCE 166 - 58 MEL, NM 183 - 54 GWS, STK 139 - 47 GCS
Round 3
CAR 122 - 62 COL, RIC 133 - 74 MEL ,WBD 40 - 103 STK, GWS 69 - 150 WCE, HAW 140 - 84 ADE
Round 4
BRI 111 - 46 GCS , GWS 62 - 104 WBD
Round 6
ESS 129 - 62 BRI CAR 110 - 43 GWS
Round 7
MEL 49 - 115 HAW, ADE 122 - 72 GEE, BRI 58 - 116 COL, ESS 113 - 52 WCE,
Round 8
HAW 119 - 63 FRE, SYD 138 - 37 MEL, WBD 72 - 34 GCS, CAR 55 - 124 ADE,
BRI 132 - 40 GWS
Round 9
RIC 137 - 75 HAW, GWS 53 - 119 ESS, CAR 107 - 49 MEL,
Round 10
GEE 126 - 61 GWS, HAW 174 - 59 NM, SYD 132 - 40 WBD, COL 149 - 52 GCS
Round 11 Byes for NM, Brisbane, GWS, WCE, WBD
GCS 49 - 144 STK
Round 12 Byes for Collingwood, Sydney, Essendon, Melbourne Demons, Dockers.
HAW 135 - 70 BRI,
Round 13 Byes for Richmond, Hawthorn, Port Ade, St Kilda, Gold Coast Suns, Carlton.
WBD 56 - 114 BRI, MEL 135 - 57 GWS
Round 14
WCE 166 - 40 GCS, SYD 132 - 38 GWS, ESS 140 - 56 WBD, BRI 122 - 61 MEL
Round 15
SYD 110 - 63 BRI, STK 133 - 62 ESS, POR 58 - 116 ADE, HAW 193 - 31 GWS
Round 16
GWS 59 - 178 ADE, WBD 44 - 116 HAW
Round 17
GEE 134 - 67 ESS, FRE 132 - 37 GWS
Round 18
ESS 86 - 180 HAW, GWS 54 - 174 COL, GCS 54 - 126 SYD, STK 118 - 42 WBD, WCE 175 - 77 BRI Wow 5 games were dead set floggings in 1 round of AFL..

13 Brisbane 17 7 0 10 88.06 28
14 Port Adelaide 17 5 0 12 81.66 20
15 Bulldogs 17 5 0 12 72.34 20
16 Melbourne 17 2 0 15 63.78 8
17 Gold Coast 17 1 0 16 57.58 4
18 Greater Western Sydney 17 1 0 16 41.18 4

1. GWS 15 Floggings
2. GCS 9 Floggings
3. Mel 6 Floggings
4. WBD 6 Floggings
5. BRI 6 Floggings



You guys notice a pattern here.....

Yes. Higher scores. The sort of thing the NRL lacks.

Stop talking about things you don't understand, Eel. Floggings have been happening in the AFL for decades. And yet the crowds want more. You can't avoid that fact. You make the claim that there aren't any floggings in the NRL. Yet where are the crowds? You can't avoid that fact either.

Ah TLPG, you consider yourself a bit of an experienced expert on the AFL comp. Have you ever, and yes i mean ever, seen a round of footy that was so lopsided? I've never seen it in my ten odd years ofviewing and id say last round goes down in history as the most uncompetitive week of AFL and VFL footy ever.

I have. Several times.

TLPG wrote:

I have. Several times.

Me too. The nature of a higher scoring game is high scores and potentially bigger margins. If this was a problem crowds wouldn't come to watch, yet they do in massive numbers. :D

There have always been struggling teams. This year there are 2 more than normal. But to compensate the battle for the top 4 and top 8 has rarely been closer.

Thats greast guys. Can you point to the season or round please? I'd hate to think you're just saying you have and just joshin with us.

It's spelt "Great" King Klan Klutz KKK Coward. Geez your thick.

AFL Warrior wrote:

It's spelt "Great" King Klan Klutz KKK Coward. Geez your thick.

AFL warrior, AFLs answer to ParraEels. All insults no substance.