The No.1 Football Code in Australia

[pHyR3]

http://www.worldofwookie.com/AFL/broadc ... 13half.png

liking this trend dave, hope it continues!! :D

[Xman]

http://www.worldofwookie.com/AFL/broadc ... 13half.png

liking this trend dave, hope it continues!! :D

You dunce. The trend includes a drop in FTA ratings last year when the new TV deal commenced all games being shown concurrently on a fox and FTA. Ths year they rose again.

[pHyR3]

They're in line with crowds. 38k a couple of years ago, 33k this year.

And I'm not sure what you meant there but tv ratings this year ONLY beat 2012 out of the last 5 years. Either equalled or were worse than ever other.

And i'm pretty sure they double count fox viewers as two for fox and fta.

[Xman]

They're in line with crowds. 38k a couple of years ago, 33k this year.

And I'm not sure what you meant there but tv ratings this year ONLY beat 2012 out of the last 5 years. Either equalled or were worse than ever other.

And i'm pretty sure they double count fox viewers as two for fox and fta.

So live concurrent games on foxtel, which increased overall ratings, had no affect on FTA ratings?



The crowd drop was an average and totally expected given expansion. You honestly think theyd keep an average of 38k by introducing two new interstate teams with crowd averages of less than 15k?

Can you explain double counting with fox and FTA?

[pHyR3]

Yeah, introducing two new teams that average below 15k would drag overall down. Except that TOTAL attendances followed the exact same trend.

186 games in 2010 = 7,146,738 in the season.
196 games in 2011 = 7,139,854 in the season
207 games in 2012 = 6,778,824 in the season
207 games in 2013 = 6,926,737 in the season.

So despite an extra TWENTY games between 2010 and 2013 200k less people rocked up. A slight increase from last year of 150k.

[Xman]

Yeah, introducing two new teams that average below 15k would drag overall down. Except that TOTAL attendances followed the exact same trend.

186 games in 2010 = 7,146,738 in the season.
196 games in 2011 = 7,139,854 in the season
207 games in 2012 = 6,778,824 in the season
207 games in 2013 = 6,926,737 in the season.

So despite an extra TWENTY games between 2010 and 2013 200k less people rocked up. A slight increase from last year of 150k.

Biggest difference is the proportion of games played in expansion states with smaller venues and non local derbies. Since 2010 the AFL have doubled their games in TAS, QLD and NSW. Hence the trend downward with each change. This is the first year in 3 where the conditions were comparable to the previous year, and average and total went up.

If the NRL introduced teams in Adelaide and Perth none of their games would be against a local opponent so their averages would be in line with the raiders, 10k or so. This would instantly decrease the NRL average and probably the total because of the reduction in local derbies.

There was a thread on here where I explained this mathematically

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3641&p=68577#p68577

[Fred]

That would be right if each team played each other twice ..

[pHyR3]

I agree that'd have some impact. But not to the tune of 200,000 less people WITH TWENTY extra games.

Looking at the mathematical thread:

147 games played in heartland states in 2010

145 games played in heartland states in 2012. And I assume same in 2013.

All I see is that they have put in 24 extra games in other states, so sure the average will probably decrease. But why is the TOTAL decreasing as well????

[Xman]

That would be right if each team played each other twice ..

Well if they all played each other twice the affect would be minimal, but they don't. For example if Collinwood played 8 of their home games as local derbies in 2010 they may play on 6 of their home games as local derbies in 2013 because there are more interstate teams. This will drop the average and total

[Xman]

I agree that'd have some impact. But not to the tune of 200,000 less people WITH TWENTY extra games.

Two more factors. Renovations to the SCG and Skilled stadium, reducing crowd sizes.

Uncompetitive teams in the suns and giants which resulted in smaller crowds due to blow outs. These affects were reversed this year as far as skilled stadium and the suns are concerned. The scg is still yet to finish renovations, and the giants are a few years behind the suns.

[pHyR3]

I agree that'd have some impact. But not to the tune of 200,000 less people WITH TWENTY extra games.

Two more factors. Renovations to the SCG and Skilled stadium, reducing crowd sizes.

Uncompetitive teams in the suns and giants which resulted in smaller crowds due to blow outs. These affects were reversed this year as far as skilled stadium and the suns are concerned. The scg is still yet to finish renovations, and the giants are a few years behind the suns.

How often do crowds even come close to capacity at the SCG and skilled stadium though?? SCG fits 45k, not sure how many with the renovations, but it's not like they're hitting capacity every time they play there and thus limiting crowds.

[Xman]

I agree that'd have some impact. But not to the tune of 200,000 less people WITH TWENTY extra games.

Two more factors. Renovations to the SCG and Skilled stadium, reducing crowd sizes.

Uncompetitive teams in the suns and giants which resulted in smaller crowds due to blow outs. These affects were reversed this year as far as skilled stadium and the suns are concerned. The scg is still yet to finish renovations, and the giants are a few years behind the suns.

How often do crowds even come close to capacity at the SCG and skilled stadium though?? SCG fits 45k, not sure how many with the renovations, but it's not like they're hitting capacity every time they play there and thus limiting crowds.

Skilled is geelongs home ground and sold out every week, as it did this year with almost double the capacity. They averaged 18k last year despite 35k members. This year they averaged 33k

The scg greatly limited general admission seating which again negatively affected crowds. This year their average grew as more capacity was released compared to last year.

They were definitely factors.

Not sure what your point is though. The AFLs average is still nearly double the NRLs and grew nicely this year. With increased capacities at the scg and Adelaide oval next year the average will grow again. Plus the suns and giants will be more competitive again. Bring on a few more years and the Perth teams will have a 60k stadium. Their games are almost always affected by the present limited 40k capacity. The eagles have a waiting list of 10k just for membership.

[pHyR3]

My point is that with 20 extra games crowds between 2013 and 2010 fell 200k. And most of those 20 games seem to be interstate, so no reduction to heartland state games.

Yeah, AFL has always had greater crowds than NRL because it's better watched at the game and generally followed by a wealthier segment of people. TV ratings is what pays the bills and where the battle is won.

[Fred]

I think you will always get fluctuations. Particularly when you are working from a very high number already. Whereas with nrl it is a low base re crowds so really you'd be wanting to go up overall. On saying that I don't think a 3 percent drop is something to be overly concerned about apart from one of the specific goals is increase crowds as they are do bad.


And I don't by the whole "it's better to watch on tv" bit. 1. Listen to all those talkof the atmosphere at the games nrl got a decent crowd ... Was it the Easter weekend ?? People raved about how good it was to be there ... The atmosphere rocked.

2. If watching on tv was such a great experience then why do people flock to SoO rather than stay at home and watch it on tv? Because SoO has done what the nrl hadn't .. People know that going to SoO is a great match day experience .. All that atmosphere ... It's electric. As a collingwood supporter I get that whenever I go to a pies game. Hardly ever less than 40000 at a game and the ones I go to usually 60000 plus ... That experience is addictive and you want to go back.

The fact is the AFL is going very well and promote the game well. The nrl are in a spot of bother but they will be okay. Most reasonable nrl people acknowledge this. To balance it up, whilst swans get good crowds, nrl is still the dominate sport on Sydney and qld ... Daylight second. That's why they'd be okay . I will say that the AFL is making massive in roads on the Gold Coast however.

[Xman]

My point is that with 20 extra games crowds between 2013 and 2010 fell 200k. And most of those 20 games seem to be interstate, so no reduction to heartland state games.

Yeah, AFL has always had greater crowds than NRL because it's better watched at the game and generally followed by a wealthier segment of people. TV ratings is what pays the bills and where the battle is won.

Not true. AFL teams earn massive amounts of money from crowds and memberships, comparable to their dividend of the TV rights.

In the last few years Hawthorn and North Melbourne both began to play some of their home games in Tasmania to far lower crowds than they would achieved in Melbourne.

Additionally its not only a reduction in the number of heartland games, its a reduction in the number of local team v local team games which affects crowd numbers. In 2010 we had 16 teams with 10 in the same state meaning many games where both teams contributed to the crowd. Now we have 18 teams with 8 isolated from the main state so more interstate v local games.

Its also the fact games against these new teams drew less fans because they were so one sided. This is a minor setback which was expected during expansion. The suns have already improved substantially and may make the finals next year and the giants won't be far behind.