Talking Footy

Thankyou.

First thing you have said right for a while.

ParraEelsNRL wrote:

piesman2011 wrote:

ParraEelsNRL wrote:

Read up on the Super League war yet, or you gonna let that one go through to the keeper?

I have in the past. Why would I need to read about it again? You believe that the superleague war held back RL for the last 15 years is that what you are getting at? Hopefully RL/NRL can now grow more post News limmited especially at the grassroots level into Vic/SA/WA and Tassy. The more sports being played the better. Hopefully AR can grow in NSW/QLD as well. Theres no reason why we cant have 3, 4 or more giant well funded sports in OZ the way they do in the US we certainly love our sports here.

So if you read about it before (lol reading about it knowing more than a person living it) why do you get so much wrong?

List examples.

King-Eliagh wrote:

Well having been travelling the world for the past few months I'm happy to say I return to these hallowed forums with fresh perspective.

In sum.

It is clear the AFL has not succeeded to expectations in their venture into Western Sydney... An initiative which is built on an unethical and misleading marketing ploy is bound to fail...And fail it has thus far. From the woeful first game crowd, compared to expectations, on a balmy clear sydney sat night. Many, including myself and our illustrious administrator expected the billed first local derby blockbuster/first GWS match to get 70k plus. The crowd was barely half that. An uncompetitive season by the new club in the west was compounded by the calls from some of the codes all time greats such as mick malthouse that the afls expansion is sapping the entire competition, creating a chasm between the top and bottom half of the comp. And then...Izzy, after being provided pooloads of dosh for smiling at the cameras and the kiddies, about turned and told the club to stick it where de sun dont shine.

Amongst all this i distinctly recall the calls from AFL HQ that they were venturing into RL Heartland to "coexist" first arriving around midway through last season. Or in other words - AFTER they realised they'd made utter gooses of themselves and their so called 'competition'. There has never been a more lopsided AFL comp in living history than in 2012 folks.

Xman and Stewie the pair of you should show shame towards your favoured sporting organisation's unethical and inept actions Or alternatively, the pair of you may continue looking like a pair of testicle heads. Your choice folks...your choice

Stewie wrote:

After 1 year the Giants already average higher crowds in Sydney than Penrith and the Roosters. The first few years were always going to be tough but the AFL will look back at it in 10 years time and ask themselves why they didn't expand sooner. Only an idiot would have thought a crowd of 70k would show up to the first derby lol.

The roosters are not based in western sydney, and their sporting market/demographic has no simularity to GWS cant use them as comparrision. Also FYI the figures i found said the roosters had a higher crowd average of 12,482 and GWS(syd)average was 11,731

What i find interesting is that you used a crowd figure for GWS that includes the first Sydney Derby to 'proove' your point that GWS has bigger crowds than penrith and the roosters and ultimatletly more popular than then those two clubs in sydney.

the AFL cleverly organised the first Sydney derby as a season opener and with no other scheduled games that weekend, it helped create more media attention. The first syd derby proves how well the AFL can promote a game but it does not proove at all the popularity of GWS. i dont think any melbournian spin doctor could change the fact that there was a 41% drop in crowd attendance from sydney derby one to two.

the crowd figure from second sydney derby (no interstate crowd inflation surge like the first game) shows a more accurate average crowd for GWS of 9777 which puts it back at the bottom.

Just using the crowds that attended GWS home games in sydney and not taking into consideration the crowds at the local derby their average was 7950. (20,000 swans fans attending a derby shouldnt be seen as progress by the giants although thats exactly how the AFL and its associated media would try turn it into, ie a headline "a sellout a skoda stadium")

So basically GWS giants get beween 8000 - 10,000 which i dont see at all as failing, its ok. they did have absolutly no fan base when they started and have not been competetive, so the crowds are ok.

some ppl down south need to stop and realise that just because they 'love' their AFL it doesnt mean we will too as soon as we have been exposed to it, and if we dont instantly love the 'australian game' its not because we just want to hate it, we actually have no interest in it, i have been exposed to AFL since i was a kid on tv, didnt make me want to play it.

I think AFL ppl look too much into crowds and view a teams attendance as an indicator or success, i do not agree with this because GWS's average crowds are very close to WSW, but the wanderers are leaps and bounds ahead of GWS in terms of community interest, support and connection. There is already strong community pride in the wanderers, its great to see. like most who grew up in western sydney i watch and have played rugby league and soccer. I support wests and the wanderers, i can never see myself having the same bond/support with AFL/GWS, i dont hate the game its the game feels liike a foreign language to me... plus lol who came up with the rule that AFL shorts were tp be small, tight and white?..




i got my crowd attendances from the following URL's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Great ... lub_season
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/2012.html

Ha, and that's if you believe GWUniverse's bloated figures, the real figures would be much much much smaller.

ParraEelsNRL wrote:

Ha, and that's if you believe GWUniverse's bloated figures, the real figures would be much much much smaller.

Says the guy who goes for a club that's previously been caught out fudging figures

214Four wrote:

King-Eliagh wrote:

Well having been travelling the world for the past few months I'm happy to say I return to these hallowed forums with fresh perspective.

In sum.

It is clear the AFL has not succeeded to expectations in their venture into Western Sydney... An initiative which is built on an unethical and misleading marketing ploy is bound to fail...And fail it has thus far. From the woeful first game crowd, compared to expectations, on a balmy clear sydney sat night. Many, including myself and our illustrious administrator expected the billed first local derby blockbuster/first GWS match to get 70k plus. The crowd was barely half that. An uncompetitive season by the new club in the west was compounded by the calls from some of the codes all time greats such as mick malthouse that the afls expansion is sapping the entire competition, creating a chasm between the top and bottom half of the comp. And then...Izzy, after being provided pooloads of dosh for smiling at the cameras and the kiddies, about turned and told the club to stick it where de sun dont shine.

Amongst all this i distinctly recall the calls from AFL HQ that they were venturing into RL Heartland to "coexist" first arriving around midway through last season. Or in other words - AFTER they realised they'd made utter gooses of themselves and their so called 'competition'. There has never been a more lopsided AFL comp in living history than in 2012 folks.

Xman and Stewie the pair of you should show shame towards your favoured sporting organisation's unethical and inept actions Or alternatively, the pair of you may continue looking like a pair of testicle heads. Your choice folks...your choice

Stewie wrote:

After 1 year the Giants already average higher crowds in Sydney than Penrith and the Roosters. The first few years were always going to be tough but the AFL will look back at it in 10 years time and ask themselves why they didn't expand sooner. Only an idiot would have thought a crowd of 70k would show up to the first derby lol.

The roosters are not based in western sydney, and their sporting market/demographic has no simularity to GWS cant use them as comparrision. Also FYI the figures i found said the roosters had a higher crowd average of 12,482 and GWS(syd)average was 11,731

What i find interesting is that you used a crowd figure for GWS that includes the first Sydney Derby to 'proove' your point that GWS has bigger crowds than penrith and the roosters and ultimatletly more popular than then those two clubs in sydney.

the AFL cleverly organised the first Sydney derby as a season opener and with no other scheduled games that weekend, it helped create more media attention. The first syd derby proves how well the AFL can promote a game but it does not proove at all the popularity of GWS. i dont think any melbournian spin doctor could change the fact that there was a 41% drop in crowd attendance from sydney derby one to two.

the crowd figure from second sydney derby (no interstate crowd inflation surge like the first game) shows a more accurate average crowd for GWS of 9777 which puts it back at the bottom.

Just using the crowds that attended GWS home games in sydney and not taking into consideration the crowds at the local derby their average was 7950. (20,000 swans fans attending a derby shouldnt be seen as progress by the giants although thats exactly how the AFL and its associated media would try turn it into, ie a headline "a sellout a skoda stadium")

So basically GWS giants get beween 8000 - 10,000 which i dont see at all as failing, its ok. they did have absolutly no fan base when they started and have not been competetive, so the crowds are ok.

some ppl down south need to stop and realise that just because they 'love' their AFL it doesnt mean we will too as soon as we have been exposed to it, and if we dont instantly love the 'australian game' its not because we just want to hate it, we actually have no interest in it, i have been exposed to AFL since i was a kid on tv, didnt make me want to play it.

I think AFL ppl look too much into crowds and view a teams attendance as an indicator or success, i do not agree with this because GWS's average crowds are very close to WSW, but the wanderers are leaps and bounds ahead of GWS in terms of community interest, support and connection. There is already strong community pride in the wanderers, its great to see. like most who grew up in western sydney i watch and have played rugby league and soccer. I support wests and the wanderers, i can never see myself having the same bond/support with AFL/GWS, i dont hate the game its the game feels liike a foreign language to me... plus lol who came up with the rule that AFL shorts were tp be small, tight and white?..




i got my crowd attendances from the following URL's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Great ... lub_season
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/2012.html

38203 2 years of promo's and everyone in AFL land talking of a 60k+ crowd for this historic moment.......Yeah historic my ass you chimps thought you were going to fill the place.........
11887 Essendon
9128 Collingwood
8603
8102
7669
7561
7538
6875
6811
6696

Millions Spent, first class facility's, 2 year promotions..... =D> =D>

http://stats.rleague.com/AFL/crowds/gws.html


These are GWS crowd figures......................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-League#Crowds

Western sydney Wanderers Ave 11,676 at the Moment and with Finals around the corner the Gap between the WSW and Midgets will only grow larger......

Wanderers--------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Midgets......

Look all Aleague clubs are in front of the Midgets......................

Team Crowd average
2005–06
2006–07
2007–08
2008–09
2009–10
2010–11
2011–12
2012–13

Adelaide United
10,948 12,162 12,697 11,712 10,765 11,552 8,083 10,038
Brisbane Roar
14,785 16,465 16,951 12,995 8,652 9,279 13,157 14,128
Central Coast Mariners
7,899 9,828 12,738 10,465 7,426 7,713 9,607 10,238
Melbourne Heart
– – – – – 8,312 9,082 8,882
Melbourne Victory
14,158 27,728 26,064 24,516 21,105 15,234 20,281 20,893
Newcastle Jets
8,912 11,442 13,177 9,729 6,340 8,429 12,117 13,573
New Zealand Knights
3,909 3,014 – – – – – –
North Queensland Fury
– – – – 6,723 4,245 – –
Perth Glory
9,734 7,671 7,606 7,942 9,209 8,488 8,309 8,671
Sydney FC
16,669 14,999 16,382 12,380 12,987 7,656 11,861 19,299
Wellington Phoenix
– –1 11,684 7,193 8,965 7,981 8,691 7,332
Western Sydney Wanderers
– – – – – – – 11,676
Whole season 11,281 12,900 14,608 12,181 9,831 8,393 10,490 12,473


Midgets last for support of all codes...........................

Wow eels, the giants are a brand new team, on the bottom of the ladder, and in an expansion state.

So lets compare their crowds to some of the NRls crowds in their own heartland:


5778 Penrith v New Zealand Penrith 11-Jun-2012
7297 Penrith v Gold Coast Titans Penrith 25-Aug-2012
7437 Penrith v Canberra Penrith 12-Aug-2012
7848 Cronulla v Penrith Endeavour 28-Jul-2012
7862 Canberra v Melbourne Bruce 03-Mar-2012
8134 Sydney Roosters v Gold Coast Titans S.F.S. 27-Jul-2012
8239 North Queensland v Parramatta Willows 17-Mar-2012
8240 Canberra v Gold Coast Titans Bruce 15-Jul-2012
8635 Cronulla v Gold Coast Titans Endeavour 10-Jun-2012
8652 Cronulla v Manly Endeavour 19-Mar-2012
8860 Canberra v Sydney Roosters Bruce 18-Aug-2012



Didnt some of these teams make the finals?

How the F can 2 NSW nRL teams playing each other, the heartland of rl, get under 10k?

eelofwest wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-League#Crowds

Western sydney Wanderers Ave 11,676 at the Moment and with Finals around the corner the Gap between the WSW and Midgets will only grow larger......

Wanderers--------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Midgets......

Look all Aleague clubs are in front of the Midgets......................

Team Crowd average
2005–06
2006–07
2007–08
2008–09
2009–10
2010–11
2011–12
2012–13

Adelaide United
10,948 12,162 12,697 11,712 10,765 11,552 8,083 10,038
Brisbane Roar
14,785 16,465 16,951 12,995 8,652 9,279 13,157 14,128
Central Coast Mariners
7,899 9,828 12,738 10,465 7,426 7,713 9,607 10,238
Melbourne Heart
– – – – – 8,312 9,082 8,882
Melbourne Victory
14,158 27,728 26,064 24,516 21,105 15,234 20,281 20,893
Newcastle Jets
8,912 11,442 13,177 9,729 6,340 8,429 12,117 13,573
New Zealand Knights
3,909 3,014 – – – – – –
North Queensland Fury
– – – – 6,723 4,245 – –
Perth Glory
9,734 7,671 7,606 7,942 9,209 8,488 8,309 8,671
Sydney FC
16,669 14,999 16,382 12,380 12,987 7,656 11,861 19,299
Wellington Phoenix
– –1 11,684 7,193 8,965 7,981 8,691 7,332
Western Sydney Wanderers
– – – – – – – 11,676
Whole season 11,281 12,900 14,608 12,181 9,831 8,393 10,490 12,473


Midgets last for support of all codes...........................

All A-league clubs......except for Adelaide, CCM, Heart, Glory, and Phoenix.

******.

Xman wrote:

Wow eels, the giants are a brand new team, on the bottom of the ladder, and in an expansion state.

So lets compare their crowds to some of the NRls crowds in their own heartland:


5778 Penrith v New Zealand Penrith 11-Jun-2012
7297 Penrith v Gold Coast Titans Penrith 25-Aug-2012
7437 Penrith v Canberra Penrith 12-Aug-2012
7848 Cronulla v Penrith Endeavour 28-Jul-2012
7862 Canberra v Melbourne Bruce 03-Mar-2012
8134 Sydney Roosters v Gold Coast Titans S.F.S. 27-Jul-2012
8239 North Queensland v Parramatta Willows 17-Mar-2012
8240 Canberra v Gold Coast Titans Bruce 15-Jul-2012
8635 Cronulla v Gold Coast Titans Endeavour 10-Jun-2012
8652 Cronulla v Manly Endeavour 19-Mar-2012
8860 Canberra v Sydney Roosters Bruce 18-Aug-2012



Didnt some of these teams make the finals?

if the midgets played in cold wet conditions like all of the above games were played in
instead of blazing sunshine every game

they wouldn't have got 3,000 to their games

midgets ... most irrelevant sports team in Australia
end of

Stewie wrote:

ParraEelsNRL wrote:

Ha, and that's if you believe GWUniverse's bloated figures, the real figures would be much much much smaller.

Says the guy who goes for a club that's previously been caught out fudging figures

Eh?

Raiderdave wrote:

Xman wrote:

Wow eels, the giants are a brand new team, on the bottom of the ladder, and in an expansion state.

So lets compare their crowds to some of the NRls crowds in their own heartland:


5778 Penrith v New Zealand Penrith 11-Jun-2012
7297 Penrith v Gold Coast Titans Penrith 25-Aug-2012
7437 Penrith v Canberra Penrith 12-Aug-2012
7848 Cronulla v Penrith Endeavour 28-Jul-2012
7862 Canberra v Melbourne Bruce 03-Mar-2012
8134 Sydney Roosters v Gold Coast Titans S.F.S. 27-Jul-2012
8239 North Queensland v Parramatta Willows 17-Mar-2012
8240 Canberra v Gold Coast Titans Bruce 15-Jul-2012
8635 Cronulla v Gold Coast Titans Endeavour 10-Jun-2012
8652 Cronulla v Manly Endeavour 19-Mar-2012
8860 Canberra v Sydney Roosters Bruce 18-Aug-2012



Didnt some of these teams make the finals?

if the midgets played in cold wet conditions like all of the above games were played in
instead of blazing sunshine every game

they wouldn't have got 3,000 to their games

midgets ... most irrelevant sports team in Australia
end of

But but but....

I forgot to add to this post that i tried to write a comment with as little negative bias as i could. Too often in this forum there is posts made with very little impartial truth let alone any real facts. I like reading posts from forumerz ljke piesman who gives credit where its due and i hope my post below is viewed simulariarly

214Four wrote:

King-Eliagh wrote:

Well having been travelling the world for the past few months I'm happy to say I return to these hallowed forums with fresh perspective.

In sum.

It is clear the AFL has not succeeded to expectations in their venture into Western Sydney... An initiative which is built on an unethical and misleading marketing ploy is bound to fail...And fail it has thus far. From the woeful first game crowd, compared to expectations, on a balmy clear sydney sat night. Many, including myself and our illustrious administrator expected the billed first local derby blockbuster/first GWS match to get 70k plus. The crowd was barely half that. An uncompetitive season by the new club in the west was compounded by the calls from some of the codes all time greats such as mick malthouse that the afls expansion is sapping the entire competition, creating a chasm between the top and bottom half of the comp. And then...Izzy, after being provided pooloads of dosh for smiling at the cameras and the kiddies, about turned and told the club to stick it where de sun dont shine.

Amongst all this i distinctly recall the calls from AFL HQ that they were venturing into RL Heartland to "coexist" first arriving around midway through last season. Or in other words - AFTER they realised they'd made utter gooses of themselves and their so called 'competition'. There has never been a more lopsided AFL comp in living history than in 2012 folks.

Xman and Stewie the pair of you should show shame towards your favoured sporting organisation's unethical and inept actions Or alternatively, the pair of you may continue looking like a pair of testicle heads. Your choice folks...your choice

Stewie wrote:

After 1 year the Giants already average higher crowds in Sydney than Penrith and the Roosters. The first few years were always going to be tough but the AFL will look back at it in 10 years time and ask themselves why they didn't expand sooner. Only an idiot would have thought a crowd of 70k would show up to the first derby lol.

The roosters are not based in western sydney, and their sporting market/demographic has no simularity to GWS cant use them as comparrision. Also FYI the figures i found said the roosters had a higher crowd average of 12,482 and GWS(syd)average was 11,731

What i find interesting is that you used a crowd figure for GWS that includes the first Sydney Derby to 'proove' your point that GWS has bigger crowds than penrith and the roosters and ultimatletly more popular than then those two clubs in sydney.

the AFL cleverly organised the first Sydney derby as a season opener and with no other scheduled games that weekend, it helped create more media attention. The first syd derby proves how well the AFL can promote a game but it does not proove at all the popularity of GWS. i dont think any melbournian spin doctor could change the fact that there was a 41% drop in crowd attendance from sydney derby one to two.

the crowd figure from second sydney derby (no interstate crowd inflation surge like the first game) shows a more accurate average crowd for GWS of 9777 which puts it back at the bottom.

Just using the crowds that attended GWS home games in sydney and not taking into consideration the crowds at the local derby their average was 7950. (20,000 swans fans attending a derby shouldnt be seen as progress by the giants although thats exactly how the AFL and its associated media would try turn it into, ie a headline "a sellout a skoda stadium")

So basically GWS giants get beween 8000 - 10,000 which i dont see at all as failing, its ok. they did have absolutly no fan base when they started and have not been competetive, so the crowds are ok.

some ppl down south need to stop and realise that just because they 'love' their AFL it doesnt mean we will too as soon as we have been exposed to it, and if we dont instantly love the 'australian game' its not because we just want to hate it, we actually have no interest in it, i have been exposed to AFL since i was a kid on tv, didnt make me want to play it.

I think AFL ppl look too much into crowds and view a teams attendance as an indicator or success, i do not agree with this because GWS's average crowds are very close to WSW, but the wanderers are leaps and bounds ahead of GWS in terms of community interest, support and connection. There is already strong community pride in the wanderers, its great to see. like most who grew up in western sydney i watch and have played rugby league and soccer. I support wests and the wanderers, i can never see myself having the same bond/support with AFL/GWS, i dont hate the game its the game feels liike a foreign language to me... plus lol who came up with the rule that AFL shorts were tp be small, tight and white?..




i got my crowd attendances from the following URL's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Great ... lub_season
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/2012.html

214Four wrote:

I forgot to add to this post that i tried to write a comment with as little negative bias as i could. Too often in this forum there is posts made with very little impartial truth let alone any real facts. I like reading posts from forumerz ljke piesman who gives credit where its due and i hope my post below is viewed simulariarly

214Four wrote:

King-Eliagh wrote:

Well having been travelling the world for the past few months I'm happy to say I return to these hallowed forums with fresh perspective.

In sum.

It is clear the AFL has not succeeded to expectations in their venture into Western Sydney... An initiative which is built on an unethical and misleading marketing ploy is bound to fail...And fail it has thus far. From the woeful first game crowd, compared to expectations, on a balmy clear sydney sat night. Many, including myself and our illustrious administrator expected the billed first local derby blockbuster/first GWS match to get 70k plus. The crowd was barely half that. An uncompetitive season by the new club in the west was compounded by the calls from some of the codes all time greats such as mick malthouse that the afls expansion is sapping the entire competition, creating a chasm between the top and bottom half of the comp. And then...Izzy, after being provided pooloads of dosh for smiling at the cameras and the kiddies, about turned and told the club to stick it where de sun dont shine.

Amongst all this i distinctly recall the calls from AFL HQ that they were venturing into RL Heartland to "coexist" first arriving around midway through last season. Or in other words - AFTER they realised they'd made utter gooses of themselves and their so called 'competition'. There has never been a more lopsided AFL comp in living history than in 2012 folks.

Xman and Stewie the pair of you should show shame towards your favoured sporting organisation's unethical and inept actions Or alternatively, the pair of you may continue looking like a pair of testicle heads. Your choice folks...your choice

Stewie wrote:

After 1 year the Giants already average higher crowds in Sydney than Penrith and the Roosters. The first few years were always going to be tough but the AFL will look back at it in 10 years time and ask themselves why they didn't expand sooner. Only an idiot would have thought a crowd of 70k would show up to the first derby lol.

The roosters are not based in western sydney, and their sporting market/demographic has no simularity to GWS cant use them as comparrision. Also FYI the figures i found said the roosters had a higher crowd average of 12,482 and GWS(syd)average was 11,731

What i find interesting is that you used a crowd figure for GWS that includes the first Sydney Derby to 'proove' your point that GWS has bigger crowds than penrith and the roosters and ultimatletly more popular than then those two clubs in sydney.

the AFL cleverly organised the first Sydney derby as a season opener and with no other scheduled games that weekend, it helped create more media attention. The first syd derby proves how well the AFL can promote a game but it does not proove at all the popularity of GWS. i dont think any melbournian spin doctor could change the fact that there was a 41% drop in crowd attendance from sydney derby one to two.

the crowd figure from second sydney derby (no interstate crowd inflation surge like the first game) shows a more accurate average crowd for GWS of 9777 which puts it back at the bottom.

Just using the crowds that attended GWS home games in sydney and not taking into consideration the crowds at the local derby their average was 7950. (20,000 swans fans attending a derby shouldnt be seen as progress by the giants although thats exactly how the AFL and its associated media would try turn it into, ie a headline "a sellout a skoda stadium")

So basically GWS giants get beween 8000 - 10,000 which i dont see at all as failing, its ok. they did have absolutly no fan base when they started and have not been competetive, so the crowds are ok.

some ppl down south need to stop and realise that just because they 'love' their AFL it doesnt mean we will too as soon as we have been exposed to it, and if we dont instantly love the 'australian game' its not because we just want to hate it, we actually have no interest in it, i have been exposed to AFL since i was a kid on tv, didnt make me want to play it.

I think AFL ppl look too much into crowds and view a teams attendance as an indicator or success, i do not agree with this because GWS's average crowds are very close to WSW, but the wanderers are leaps and bounds ahead of GWS in terms of community interest, support and connection. There is already strong community pride in the wanderers, its great to see. like most who grew up in western sydney i watch and have played rugby league and soccer. I support wests and the wanderers, i can never see myself having the same bond/support with AFL/GWS, i dont hate the game its the game feels liike a foreign language to me... plus lol who came up with the rule that AFL shorts were tp be small, tight and white?..




i got my crowd attendances from the following URL's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Great ... lub_season
http://stats.rleague.com/rl/crowds/2012.html

Good post.

Most of the first GSW crowd would have been syndey swans, however you could argue that most Sydney based clubs have a home ground local derby 6 or 7 times every year not just once. So this would mean that their crowds would be a lot less as well if you took out the opposition crowds. However I would agree that except for 5-6K fans (maybe up to 10K) GWS dont have much support in Sydney at the moment. However I am happy to let this support grow and I am happy for the AFL to support them financialy for at least 10 years (they may not have to).
I dont know Sydney however there is obviously a lot of support for RL in Sydney. Most people, however would prefer to watch their team for 80 minutes on TV rather then spend 3 hours (5 hours in total) driving though the Sydney traffic.With better roads and better and bigger stadia, RL could easily increase their attendences averages by 10K in 10 years if they could transcribe their TV support into bums on seats.