The No.1 Football Code in Australia

[Raiderdave]

RD ... I think it depends on your definition of success. The measures you mention as success would see it having the same profile as NRL ... I don't think anyone expects the AFL to be on par or near par with NRL .. If this is your definition of success than I don't think the AFL or swans would ever succeed under that definition. If however of you deem success as having a committed core following (record membership this year), regular crowds over 20 000, and as you say favorable press coverage, then you could say the swans have been successful... Based on those definitions of success. An analogy would be Melbourne Victory.. I would class them as successful in Melbourne on same definition... How on your definition they would not be successful as not as popular or dominant (or near) as AFL.

on the contrary
I don't think the swines to be considered a success need to be at the NRL's level in Sydney as a sport
as they clearly are not
but vicky kicky apologists in here constantly claim they are the biggest "team" in NSW & Sydney & have been abjectly successful

yet after 30 years.. the money spent & plenty of recent success .... they still can't gather barely a tenth of the interest of most NRL games in Sydney on TV
& their crowds are going backward ...
its a fair to say based on this they are not nearly as succesful as the singlet wearing pom pom wavers in here would have you believe
& in reality have failed because they STILL really have not registerd as a side worth watching with much more then 1% of sydneys sports loving public.

After last years GF win & the woefully pathetic turnouts to their 2 games in Sydney so far this year based on what they've done in the past & what they achieved last year
one wonders if they ever will ....

[Raiderdave]

You could however possibly class the wonders as successful on your definition based on their impact in western Sydney ... They seem to be on par with Nrl.... So it can happen but they had a good base to begin with . I don't think the AFL will ever be on par with nrl re: being embraced by city at same level ... But they definitely have a niche market if not better. Nearly 40000 are hanging over there hard earned after all to be members.

the wanderers you mean ?

they seem to be on par with the NRL do they ?
they still don't average 12K at home games at Parramatta stadium despite being the minor premiers
in comparison the Parramatta eels averaged 13K at the same venue in 2012 .... running dead last

their recent derby against Sydney FC rated 80K on pay tv a few weeks back
the Parramatta eels coming off a 50 point hiding ... attracted 300K against the sharks on pay tv as well last week

roles reversed I think we can safely say that the wanderers are far from on par with the NRL's on any measure & maybe people need to stop reading & buying into media hype & analyse some facts for a change.
K ?

[Fred]

Yeah, I would agree the swans will still need to consolidate their presence and growth to date. I probably disagree re crowds going backwards based on averages given the variables you yourself list as impacting crowds although go agree re tv ratings however as you mention I can't be expected that they would match NRL figures in Sydney but am wondering what would be a good ratings figure for swans in Sydney ? Makes it hard when we have no actual foxtel figures though fur Sydney .

[Fred]

True re soccer ... I think I was meaning within western Sydney ... A small geographical area where soccer had a lot if support .

[Fred]

Again though, re crowd numbers ... I think if you turn around and use crowd figures to support a code found well against another code it makes it difficult to then say crowd numbers are irrelevant when commenting on the swans crowds when we already agree they are not expected to have same support as NRL .... Even if the swans do get larger crowds ... Which they do... I agree that this does not translate into general support and following in community ... But you do have to acknowledge good crowds for the swans compared to NRL crowds ... Again this I don't think translates to overall acceptance or dominance ... I agree ratings are a good sign for this ,

[Swans4ever]

You wouldn't think of them as a success no matter what the circumstance. By your definition ONLY tv ratings are important and if its south of the border its a complete waste of time. I wonder if you have even been to an AFL game or Melb for that matter? Your profile says your a coach but of what? couldn't see you being very successful because even when shown ur wrong your not man enough to adjust your position and swallow your pride and admit it, nor do you change (I would love to coach against you would have you beat in first 2 min). You don't argue you disagree regardless and you provide no basis for your statements. The NRL got 122k fans on the weekend so whats your excuse, there was teams competing that have 100 yrs of history and by your logic enormous amounts of money invested in them (i.e. the so called pokie clubs that support them) yet that hasn't brought people out to watch, they have more members than ever before, but that didn't seem to bring people out. All you can rely on is tv ratings - something that is hard to judge and far from accurate. I dare say if I was being coached by such a narrow minded, belligerent person, who is in such denial, I would seek a transfer. I know you will say something about me being a dickhead and you wouldn't have offered me a contract in the first place in order to respond, but we know that any response you have will have only two certainties that can be relied on. 1st it is made up and has no credibility and 2nd lacks any wit or intelligence. AFL will be in Sydney long after you and your warped sense of reality is pushing up daisy's. NRL for close minded fools!

[Swans4ever]

Last post was for Raiderdave

[Raiderdave]

Again though, re crowd numbers ... I think if you turn around and use crowd figures to support a code found well against another code it makes it difficult to then say crowd numbers are irrelevant when commenting on the swans crowds when we already agree they are not expected to have same support as NRL .... Even if the swans do get larger crowds ... Which they do... I agree that this does not translate into general support and following in community ... But you do have to acknowledge good crowds for the swans compared to NRL crowds ... Again this I don't think translates to overall acceptance or dominance ... I agree ratings are a good sign for this ,

they had far bigger crowds
they no longer do
the smaller crowds they now get are rightfully compared to the recent past & theres no other feasible excuse for the embarrasing turnouts except declining interest in the sport

if they had never got a crowd of 20K ever before
& these last 2 crowds were their first

we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[Raiderdave]

Your profile says your a coach but of what? !

ummmmm

I'm going to just leave this post here for all of us to ponder




FMD

[Fred]

As mentioned in my post RD , I can see what your saying re : having had higher averages in past (could you post these by the way for swans each year they have been in Sydney) and there may be some merit when looked at in isolation . However how much have those averages dropped ? We know there is always variance in averages and really mean averages mean little without standard variation being reported. And as you rightly say there are many variables that impact on crowd numbers so those averages need to be viewed in context of those variables you rightly identify. I think changes in average crowd attendance probably isn't important when it is only small. I think membership numbers are more likely a better indicator of niche market support and tv ratings of general support. I think crowd numbers as a measure had too many variables although they are generally at a good level anyway.

[Raiderdave]

As mentioned in my post RD , I can see what your saying re : having had higher averages in past (could you post these by the way for swans each year they have been in Sydney) and there may be some merit when looked at in isolation . However how much have those averages dropped ?.

how much ?

approx 37K in 2006

to approx 24K in 2012

thats
ova 33%

[Xman]

As mentioned in my post RD , I can see what your saying re : having had higher averages in past (could you post these by the way for swans each year they have been in Sydney) and there may be some merit when looked at in isolation . However how much have those averages dropped ?.

how much ?

approx 37K in 2006

to approx 24K in 2012

thats
ova 33%

Their 37k average was only held up by blockbuster games against large drawing teams. They haven't had blockbuster games since dropping down the ladder after 2007. Theyll return. Last years premiership win was a surprise given they really didnt dominate the year, so its not like last years crowds were going to provide any super crowds like 2006.

[Xman]

Again though, re crowd numbers ... I think if you turn around and use crowd figures to support a code found well against another code it makes it difficult to then say crowd numbers are irrelevant when commenting on the swans crowds when we already agree they are not expected to have same support as NRL .... Even if the swans do get larger crowds ... Which they do... I agree that this does not translate into general support and following in community ... But you do have to acknowledge good crowds for the swans compared to NRL crowds ... Again this I don't think translates to overall acceptance or dominance ... I agree ratings are a good sign for this ,

they had far bigger crowds
they no longer do
the smaller crowds they now get are rightfully compared to the recent past & theres no other feasible excuse for the embarrasing turnouts except declining interest in the sport

if they had never got a crowd of 20K ever before
& these last 2 crowds were their first

we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm curious how an average of 24k in Sydney could be described as embarrassing? Nice way to own 15 of your 16 clubs!

[piesman2011]

Swans averaged 25k last year and at their peek they were 35.6k in 2007. But you make up those numbers RD.

[Stewie]

Again though, re crowd numbers ... I think if you turn around and use crowd figures to support a code found well against another code it makes it difficult to then say crowd numbers are irrelevant when commenting on the swans crowds when we already agree they are not expected to have same support as NRL .... Even if the swans do get larger crowds ... Which they do... I agree that this does not translate into general support and following in community ... But you do have to acknowledge good crowds for the swans compared to NRL crowds ... Again this I don't think translates to overall acceptance or dominance ... I agree ratings are a good sign for this ,

they had far bigger crowds
they no longer do
the smaller crowds they now get are rightfully compared to the recent past & theres no other feasible excuse for the embarrasing turnouts except declining interest in the sport

if they had never got a crowd of 20K ever before
& these last 2 crowds were their first

we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm curious how an average of 24k in Sydney could be described as embarrassing? Nice way to own 15 of your 16 clubs!

I wonder what he thinks about his own teams woeful crowds?