AFL commision failing the AFL public.

[Striker]

One of your better postings, Raid!

[Xman]

The definition isn't BS. It's on the freaking money! Melbourne weren't experimenting! They were deliberately making it impossible for the team to play at it's best! If there were drugs involved you'd be spitting chips, and it's no different! That last remark proves how little you know about the Storm! Even without the idiots who paid a few players too much we would still have won those two flags! The Storm are succesful because we are THAT FREAKING GOOD!!

Yes, it appears Melbourne weren't just experimenting. But experimenting isnt tanking which is exactly what AD said.

The storms penalties did nothing significant to stop their future performances, they were retrospective only. SO they lost a year, they effectively got to keep the makings of a great team which they never would have developed if it werent for cheating. They are roundly hated by everyone bar Storm supporters and rightly so.

Experimenting?? They were doing no such freaking thing! They "say" they were, but we all know what they were REALLY doing!

The Storm would have developed a great team anyway. So yeah, taking the two flags away didn't really hurt us much. That's because it's not a big deal (salary cap breaches) compared to freaking tanking! Tanking is a lot worse because it's match fixing!

Try reading FFS! I said it appeared Melbourne weren't just experimenting. But other teams were and experimentation in itself isnt and should never be considered tanking.

[Xman]

so accusations of this disgraceful activity going back into the 90's !!!

what has the VFL done
NOTHING

what are they doing now
NOTHING

when will they get serious about their integrity
NEVER

why
look at the gooses posting in here .... why do they need to
their fans are amongst the dumbest human beings on gods green earth

they don't need to do anything really , so they'll remain a corrupt organisation with their games & the results in them... fixed
& their brain washed fans will go on their merry way oblivious
bbaaaaaa
baaaaaaaaaaa

keep your children away from this vile sport
VFL.. truly our nations secret shame

Accusations without proof. Find some proof, like it appears they have this year, and action can be taken.

In fact they acted a few years ago even without proof to stop the accusation...

[eelofwest]

so accusations of this disgraceful activity going back into the 90's !!!

what has the VFL done
NOTHING

what are they doing now
NOTHING

when will they get serious about their integrity
NEVER

why
look at the gooses posting in here .... why do they need to
their fans are amongst the dumbest human beings on gods green earth

they don't need to do anything really , so they'll remain a corrupt organisation with their games & the results in them... fixed
& their brain washed fans will go on their merry way oblivious
bbaaaaaa
baaaaaaaaaaa

keep your children away from this vile sport
VFL.. truly our nations secret shame

Accusations without proof. Find some proof, like it appears they have this year, and action can be taken.

In fact they acted a few years ago even without proof to stop the accusation...

How to prevent Tippet and tanking


By Matt Simpson, 6 Nov 2012 Matt Simpson is a Roar Rookie

Tagged:
AFL, Kurt Tippet, Melbourne Demons

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Mr Demetriou and co. at the AFL have had a torrid time of late. Since the end of an intriguing trade and free agency period, Israel Folau decided it was time to pack up and go anywhere else but AFL and GWS.

Also, Kurt Tippet’s Adelaide contract emerged as a serious issue involving the murky world of salary caps and third party agreements, and it seems, to the surprise of not many, the Demons may have ‘tanked’ in games to win draft picks.

I doubt the AFL is going to be too concerned by Folau moving on to the rugby codes. Even after he had been paid well above his worth, his body language, statistics and press conferences showed he didn’t have the capability or desire required to be an elite AFL footballer.

He was a gimmick, aimed at getting quick media attention, which he certainly did, and he now leaves before he becomes a blight on the game.

The sagas surrounding Adelaide and Melbourne could potentially be much more damaging. Both of these, if proven to be as bad as is feared, will strike at the very heart of the competition, the closeness of the contest and balance across the board.

The salary cap was bought in so clubs couldn’t simply outspend smaller clubs to win premierships, and the draft so that the clubs who needed the best new talent got it, especially after the failure of zoning.

These are the vary reasons we have a salary cap and a draft – to disperse the youngest and best talent with an aim of an even playing field.

When the AFL created Gold Coast and GWS, they gave these new teams extra salary cap room and a private cattle auction to get the best young talent, and established clubs were suddenly not guaranteed the ability to recruit, or hold on to, the players.

Adelaide and Melbourne were simply trying to beat this situation. Until after due investigation, how successful they are remains to be seen. In any outcome, the AFL has a chance to prevent any future attacks on the integrity of the game in the future.

The first way to prevent teams from tanking, or coming under suspicion thereof, is to introduce an NBA style lottery draft. I am personally surprised the AFL has not introduced this idea already, as they have seemingly taken many other ideas from the NBA, including the increase of the aerial spectacle and the soon to be finished media centre.

The lottery draft works basically like the lotto on TV we all play, it’s just that tickets are handed out for each separate draw, with the winner getting the draft pick that is up for grabs. The lower your position in the league, the more tickets you get. It is not completely random, as the odds for each draw are still favoured towards lower teams getting higher picks.

In a contest sense, this means that teams at the bottom are not guaranteed the best draft picks, simply the highest chance of getting them. The current system is basically the lower you are, the better the picks you get.

In a logical, unemotional sense, this means if you are in the bottom three half way through the season, with no chance of making finals, the last thing you want is to win games and lose draft choices.

By bringing in a lottery draft, and including teams from, for arguments sake, ninth position down, it means there are no guarantees. After the higher picks are gone, it could then go to a normal draft from pick 20 onwards (again, for arguments sake).

This is obviously done soon after the end of the previous season to allow for planning and movement of players and picks throughout the draft and trade period.

I was also trying to think of financial awards that could be available to all teams, scaled depending on position. However I think TV broadcasters have already done that by looking at how attractive your team is to watch.

I think it is going to be very hard for the AFL to do anything to Melbourne, because if Melbourne are found guilty, it means any team who rests players, tries players in new positions, or bloods new players could be considered tankers. Is there even a tanking rule?

What about the third party agreements, and family payments, that have been brought up in the Kurt Tippet case? The payment of family members for services already has a precedent in the signing of Tom Scully’s father as a GWS recruiter.

Simply put, if it can be proven that the non-playing family member would not be employed without the player, both payments are counted as player payments.

Third party agreements are an extremely grey area. The simple mechanics are that a player can accept a payment from a business, as long as the business approaches the player of its own accord.

Under the rules, neither the player nor their club can approach the business and ask them to make an offer. Therefore it is not hard to imagine a world of clandestine agreements, carpark meetings and secret handshakes.

One way in which the AFL could negate this is quite simple. Rather than approving the deal once all the other parties have agreed, a business wanting to offer a third party agreement should go straight through the AFL, and have the AFL represented as a stakeholder all the way through the negotiating process.

This leaves little opportunity for the unwanted gentlemen’s agreement to occur. Perhaps the player should spend a year at the club before third party agreements are allowed, to prevent a third party agreement being used as bait. Other than that, it has proven very hard to monitor third party agreements.

Look at Chris Judd’s deal with the Pratts as an ‘environmental ambassador’ for their cardboard company, Visy. I cannot understand how there was separation between Carlton and Visy when the Pratts are so prominent in both.

As usual, as we look through the window, someone is on the other side fogging up the glass, so we don’t know the full story of who is in the room. Will we ever?

A very good read,

Blind freddy you caught on yet....

[Xman]

The author makes many good points. The NBA style draft has been suggested before and may be introduced one day. However, the sporting landscape in Australia is vastly different than the USA. Basketball is popular nationwide where as both RL and ARs are attempting to gain popularity in new areas. NBA teams are also extremely well funded because they represent entire cities.

[Striker]

Yes, it appears Melbourne weren't just experimenting. But experimenting isnt tanking which is exactly what AD said.

The storms penalties did nothing significant to stop their future performances, they were retrospective only. SO they lost a year, they effectively got to keep the makings of a great team which they never would have developed if it werent for cheating. They are roundly hated by everyone bar Storm supporters and rightly so.

Experimenting?? They were doing no such freaking thing! They "say" they were, but we all know what they were REALLY doing!

The Storm would have developed a great team anyway. So yeah, taking the two flags away didn't really hurt us much. That's because it's not a big deal (salary cap breaches) compared to freaking tanking! Tanking is a lot worse because it's match fixing!

Try reading FFS! I said it appeared Melbourne weren't just experimenting. But other teams were and experimentation in itself isnt and should never be considered tanking.

Try reading yourself! Carlton should be investigated as well!

[ParraEelsNRL]

Carlton should be investigated as well!

Multiple times for multiple offending crimes.

[Xman]

Experimenting?? They were doing no such freaking thing! They "say" they were, but we all know what they were REALLY doing!

The Storm would have developed a great team anyway. So yeah, taking the two flags away didn't really hurt us much. That's because it's not a big deal (salary cap breaches) compared to freaking tanking! Tanking is a lot worse because it's match fixing!

Try reading FFS! I said it appeared Melbourne weren't just experimenting. But other teams were and experimentation in itself isnt and should never be considered tanking.

Try reading yourself! Carlton should be investigated as well!

Fine by me, if teams were guilty of tanking they should be penalised

[eelofwest]

This really puts things in perspective......


The headline is misleading intentionally, and here is why.

I expect everyone reading this to remember the moment news broke in 2010 that the Melbourne Storm had cheated the salary cap. It didn't take long at all for the Storm to be stripped of 3 minor premierships, 2 premierships, return of $1.5 million dollars, $500,000 dollar fine & stripped of all 2010 premiership points while not being allowed to earn any more for the duration of the season. The Storm had gone over the cap a total of $1.7 million dollars across 5 seasons, the largest excess being $700,000 dollars over in 2010. They have not yet, and probably never will, shake the label of 'cheats' from fans around the world. Memberships were handed in, merchandise was left outside their stadium with fans vowing never to support them again, people were sacked and banned from the game, the NRL itself was brought under fire and all in all the Melbourne Storm were shook to their very foundations.

So for NRL fans, imagine if our competition and fans not only knew this was going on, but happily accepted it. That is what happens in the AFL.

One aspect is the Cost of living allowance. The Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast Suns, GWS Giants & Sydney Swans all have it best. Some higher than others, but none the less, they all are given the right to go over the cap. The reason? The AFL says that as they aren't "heartland" teams they require it to lure players away from Melbourne & Adelaide and deal with the higher cost of living in expensive places like Sydney to set up their new lives. GWS & Sydney rank the highest with an extra 9.8% to spend on players. To put that in NRL terms we might understand, that would put the Melbourne Storm under the cap for pretty much every year they were stripped. It would give the current Storm roster the freedom to roughly sign the likes of Thurston, Barba or Gallen etc.

When the Brisbane Lions won three premierships back to back from 2001 to 2003 they were $750, 000 over the cap. They were the only AFL team to ever successfully hold three Brownlow medal winners (Their version of the Dally M) on the roster at one time. In the 2003 grand final they led at one stage by 80 points. They just simply dominated.

The Sydney Swans were quick to follow. In 2005-2006 they went to back to back grand finals, winning one, and were $550, 000 over the cap at that stage.

The information on how far over the cap these teams were allowed to go is not hidden. It's proudly shown, simple to find, and not at all questioned by anyone.

Even the Swans 2012 grand final victory, you guessed it, way over the cap. This time, it is drawing some questions. Not only have they kept their premiership roster, they're in contract talks with some of the biggest free agents in the game. Some clubs get mad, but no fans mind at all. Here is the Swans looking to sign another star for 2013, and another club over the cap, mad that they cannot afford him while the Swans can with the extra money to spend. The source? AFL.com. Like I said, they aren't shy about it. http://www.AFL.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx
Looking at the comments on the AFL facebook page (where this link was posted, and states in the headline that they are over the cap) every fan seems brightly aware how far over the Lions & Swans have been in their success, but nobody is overly mad, just taking a few swipes. Nobody is calling for fairness. They just accept it. I don't understand that. It seems lunacy.

In another instance, when the Suns and Giants signed K & Izzy respectively, neither player was included in the salary cap on top of the living allowance they already had. So even with the cost of living allowance, it doesn't stop there. Who knows what else is allowed.

It has clearly had it's effect. Between 2000 and 2012 the AFL grand final has been won 5 times by the two teams highest over the cap. Those two teams (Sydney & Brisbane) have been in the grand final 50% of the time.

So my big point on this, is simply is it right? Are they buying their expansion clubs premierships to assist the growth of the game? Is there ANY honor in a team winning the competition when they are so far over? Could you support a competition that allowed this? How would you feel if your club was struggling to win, even survive, while others got this advantage? Pretty much anything you'd like to add, I'd be interested to hear if I am the only one who thinks this is, pardon my French, completely fucked up.


Does the AFL have any cred left really??????????

[Xman]

What a ridiculous article!

They sample 12 years and claim expansion teams have an unfair advantage because of their extra salary cap because an expansion team has won the GF 5 times in that time.

1. They neglect to mention that its not unusual for teams to have a dominant period where they win a few GFs

2. Brisbane won their GFs as a result of their super team which was established due to the merger of Brisbane and Fitzroy

3. The lions are shite and have been for over 5 years. Where is their salary cap benefit now?

4. What about the storm that have played in 6 GFs in 15 years and are still dominating the NRL AFTER their penalties!

5. At least the AFL have a reasonably equal FTA TV policy. The Broncos are by far the richest NRL club yet they get 7-10 times the FTA coverage of lesser nRL clubs. Hmmmm that's credibility....

[piesman2011]

Ask yourself this Eels. Does it cost more to live in Sydney than in Melbourne? If so then I personally have no issue with salary concessions in Sydney alone. As for Brisbane having concessions I believe that they have now been cancelled (years ago). I think the best thing you can say about AFL in terms of the balance in the comp is that:

Over the last 20 year 11 teams have won the GF cup
Over the last 10 years 8 teams have won the GF cup

How does NRL compare:

Over the last 20 years 10 teams have won the GF
Over the last 10 years 7 teams have won the GF

Perhaps it is time for the NRL to adopt a draft so that more teams can win the biggest game of the year.

[Stewie]

Didn't Brisbane's concessions only come from them having a high % of interstate players in their squad? There used to be a limit before you got concession benefits I think. The AFL has since scrapped this rule

[Raiderdave]

This really puts things in perspective......


The headline is misleading intentionally, and here is why.

I expect everyone reading this to remember the moment news broke in 2010 that the Melbourne Storm had cheated the salary cap. It didn't take long at all for the Storm to be stripped of 3 minor premierships, 2 premierships, return of $1.5 million dollars, $500,000 dollar fine & stripped of all 2010 premiership points while not being allowed to earn any more for the duration of the season. The Storm had gone over the cap a total of $1.7 million dollars across 5 seasons, the largest excess being $700,000 dollars over in 2010. They have not yet, and probably never will, shake the label of 'cheats' from fans around the world. Memberships were handed in, merchandise was left outside their stadium with fans vowing never to support them again, people were sacked and banned from the game, the NRL itself was brought under fire and all in all the Melbourne Storm were shook to their very foundations.

So for NRL fans, imagine if our competition and fans not only knew this was going on, but happily accepted it. That is what happens in the AFL.

One aspect is the Cost of living allowance. The Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast Suns, GWS Giants & Sydney Swans all have it best. Some higher than others, but none the less, they all are given the right to go over the cap. The reason? The AFL says that as they aren't "heartland" teams they require it to lure players away from Melbourne & Adelaide and deal with the higher cost of living in expensive places like Sydney to set up their new lives. GWS & Sydney rank the highest with an extra 9.8% to spend on players. To put that in NRL terms we might understand, that would put the Melbourne Storm under the cap for pretty much every year they were stripped. It would give the current Storm roster the freedom to roughly sign the likes of Thurston, Barba or Gallen etc.

When the Brisbane Lions won three premierships back to back from 2001 to 2003 they were $750, 000 over the cap. They were the only AFL team to ever successfully hold three Brownlow medal winners (Their version of the Dally M) on the roster at one time. In the 2003 grand final they led at one stage by 80 points. They just simply dominated.

The Sydney Swans were quick to follow. In 2005-2006 they went to back to back grand finals, winning one, and were $550, 000 over the cap at that stage.

The information on how far over the cap these teams were allowed to go is not hidden. It's proudly shown, simple to find, and not at all questioned by anyone.

Even the Swans 2012 grand final victory, you guessed it, way over the cap. This time, it is drawing some questions. Not only have they kept their premiership roster, they're in contract talks with some of the biggest free agents in the game. Some clubs get mad, but no fans mind at all. Here is the Swans looking to sign another star for 2013, and another club over the cap, mad that they cannot afford him while the Swans can with the extra money to spend. The source? AFL.com. Like I said, they aren't shy about it. http://www.AFL.com.au/news/newsarticle/ ... fault.aspx
Looking at the comments on the AFL facebook page (where this link was posted, and states in the headline that they are over the cap) every fan seems brightly aware how far over the Lions & Swans have been in their success, but nobody is overly mad, just taking a few swipes. Nobody is calling for fairness. They just accept it. I don't understand that. It seems lunacy.

In another instance, when the Suns and Giants signed K & Izzy respectively, neither player was included in the salary cap on top of the living allowance they already had. So even with the cost of living allowance, it doesn't stop there. Who knows what else is allowed.

It has clearly had it's effect. Between 2000 and 2012 the AFL grand final has been won 5 times by the two teams highest over the cap. Those two teams (Sydney & Brisbane) have been in the grand final 50% of the time.

So my big point on this, is simply is it right? Are they buying their expansion clubs premierships to assist the growth of the game? Is there ANY honor in a team winning the competition when they are so far over? Could you support a competition that allowed this? How would you feel if your club was struggling to win, even survive, while others got this advantage? Pretty much anything you'd like to add, I'd be interested to hear if I am the only one who thinks this is, pardon my French, completely fucked up.


Does the AFL have any cred left really??????????

what a great article ............
in summary

the VFL is a rancid ... smelly ... rigged , manipulated ... contrived .... low comp
& the other point made is

VFL fans are as dumb as dog sh.it

[piesman2011]

Once again RD comes in talking sh.t and adds nothing to the conversation. Time to retire RD.

[Drac]

Didn't Brisbane's concessions only come from them having a high % of interstate players in their squad? There used to be a limit before you got concession benefits I think. The AFL has since scrapped this rule

Yea, I thought Brisbane's concessions were a direct result of the Fitzroy merger and the number of players that had to move their families up there from Melbourne. I remember after the 2002 GF Eddy cracked sads about the extra salary cap room the Lions had, but it didn't seem to stop Port from belting them in a GF. In any case, it's been a decade since the merger and the salary cap concessions for the Lions are gone.