The GWS membership & crowds myth.

[Terry]

Well folks in light of Vince Rugari pointing out the massive disparity in the Giants 'membership' claims and their actual membership finances ...

Rugari doesnt actually do this. He simply points out they are making a loss, and are the only club that might do so in the AFL.

Considering that most of their members will be of the 3 game variety - the Canberra/Sydney games split fairly makes that certain - paying $80 or so for their membership, with a fair smattering of juniors and associate members who pay somewhat less, the 1.9 million figure is probably accurate for the total members they have.

That they are making a loss is something else entirely.

GWS reported $1.8M for membership and merchandising in 2017. For some reason they were combined. The Suns reported $6.610M for the same. The Suns had 11.5k members and GWS 21k. So the Suns had 1/2 the members but $4.2M more to show for it.

Something is clearly wrong here. I suspect, as has been reported, GWS give away membership to any kids they come across at auskick, schools, meet & greet etc etc. The freebies must be well over half their membership on the finances they report.

There is no problem doing that but it makes their membership tally worthless as a pointer to health or popularity of the club. And as stated by the sports marketing expert quoted in the article, memberships 'have lost a bit of currency to the average person'. Meaning they don't trust the numbers.

[notaleaguefan]

If only they carried out an audit of the nrlol club memberships
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/pet-pe ... 2fohp.html

As the AFL carried out an audit of their clubs every season and revenue is listed in the annual reports

The nrlol and it’s clubs do no such thing

[Terry]

GWS reported $1.8M for membership and merchandising in 2017. For some reason they were combined. The Suns reported $6.610M for the same. The Suns had 11.5k members and GWS 21k. So the Suns had 1/2 the members but $4.2M more to show for it.

Something is clearly wrong here.

Something is. For a start the 2017 figures arent apples and orangses. The Suns is for ticketing and membership (not merch), while the giants is for membership and merch (not ticketing).

The Suns play all but one home game at Metricon, the Giants play 3 a year in Canberra and 7 in Sydney. The Suns would sell more full season memberships than the Giants by a fair margin - Giants would largely be split between Canberra and Sydney - more members, cheaper memberships.

I suspect, as has been reported, GWS give away membership to any kids they come across at auskick, schools, meet & greet etc etc. The freebies must be well over half their membership on the finances they report.

Given the large number of 3 game members the club would have, and a lot of those would be juniors, and given the league doesnt count free members in official tallies, I suspect your wrong.

There is no problem doing that but it makes their membership tally worthless as a pointer to health or popularity of the club. And as stated by the sports marketing expert quoted in the article, memberships 'have lost a bit of currency to the average person'. Meaning they don't trust the numbers.

Memberships are a marketing tool for the club, as well as a means to generate income. always have been, but particularly so in the last 10-15 years. Most clubs do it - even NRL ones.

Well pal, you're never going to make it as an investigative journalist!!! I think I'll go with Rugari. He has been attending GWS home games all season. He's called out their BS crowd announcements. He's obviously then done a thing called 'investigate' their member announcement and discovered it don't stack up.

I understand the bubble is a difficult place to live. Maybe you should move to Sydney like Vince did and get a feel of the real world.

Hope that helps pal.

[Terry]

I understand you need to have your bias confirmed. I also understand that Vince isnt saying most of the stuff you claim he is. You're inferring much that isnt there in the article you've linked.

And Ive been looking and AFL memberships and revenues for longer than Rugari has been a journalist. And yet again, its fascinating how its the media is gospel when you want it to be.

As for bubbles, maybe you should get out of your own, and actually do the maths on this one. Rugari has only said they made a loss on membership, he made no conclusions about membership numbers. Or crowds.

He has specifically stated previously the announced crowds are no where near the actual crowds. He has also posted pics of a deserted stadium.

He has clearly called out their BS membership numbers. He quoted a marketing expert as saying "membership counts are over stated....... but were ingrained in Melbourne AFL culture". If you can't discern the actual meaning of this I can't help ya pal!!!!

[Terry]

He has specifically stated previously the announced crowds are no where near the actual crowds. He has also posted pics of a deserted stadium.

Unless hes personally counting the crowds as they enter. I dont give a fuck.

He has clearly called out their BS membership numbers.

No he didnt. The article merely says that the numbers for AFL clubs - not limited to or even naming the Giants - are not representative of the same thing they were when clubs were limited to reporting season ticket numbers. 3 and 5 game memberships werent really a thing until 10 or so years ago.

He quoted a marketing expert as saying "membership counts are over stated....... but were ingrained in Melbourne AFL culture". If you can't discern the actual meaning of this I can't help ya pal!!!!

Nice of you you to leave parts of the quote out.

Sports marketing expert Con Stavros, an associate professor at RMIT University, said membership counts were "overstated" as a barometer of club health but were ingrained as part of Melbourne AFL culture.

He doesnt say the numbers are false, its just that the meaning of membership counts has changed since they were no longer restricted to 11 and 16 game memberships. Maybe you should discern the actual meaning of this.

"It’s fascinating that the interstate clubs are now really trying to push the membership thing," Stavros told the Herald. "It’s lost a bit of its currency to the average person. We see the numbers now with clubs boasting 80,000 - when they were tied to 11 or 16-game memberships they were lower, 25,000 to 30,000. They held more weight then.

“Now, like all things in data, it becomes a number that is a bit unclear. Any sponsor who knows what they are doing, when they are presented with those numbers, will ask for the background behind it. They would ask for detail about how many fit into each category, how many actually go to games."

Nowhere does he say the numbers are false or made up, just they hold less weight.

This is due to the inclusion of 3 and 5 game members, or any member who pays at least $50 and is registered to the club data base.

Na. Na. Na. and Nyet. Wrong on every count pal. But it's pointless talking sense to bubble dwellers.

Good luck and gods speed.

[Terry]

OK...so today's 'Sydney derby'. The announced crowd was 16,116. Laughable I know. Strangely there are pics of deserted grand stands. Like no one in 'em .........anywhere lolololol.

But the faithful few stick to the mantra. Poor buggers. I'm looking at you Wookie!!!

I'll have more to follow on this epic ' battle of the bridge' lololololololol!!! It's lucky I care because clearly no one else does.

[SportCapital]

OK...so today's 'Sydney derby'. The announced crowd was 16,116. Laughable I know. Strangely there are pics of deserted grand stands. Like no one in 'em .........anywhere lolololol.

Terry, Terry, Terry..........
The exact same thing occurs to me with NRL games, every week, without fail.....
Not only deserted Grand stands but advertising banners covering thousands of seats so punters are excluded from some of the better seats in the stadium.

[SportCapital]

He has specifically stated previously the announced crowds are no where near the actual crowds. He has also posted pics of a deserted stadium.

Unless hes personally counting the crowds as they enter. I dont give a fuck.

He has clearly called out their BS membership numbers.

No he didnt. The article merely says that the numbers for AFL clubs - not limited to or even naming the Giants - are not representative of the same thing they were when clubs were limited to reporting season ticket numbers. 3 and 5 game memberships werent really a thing until 10 or so years ago.

He quoted a marketing expert as saying "membership counts are over stated....... but were ingrained in Melbourne AFL culture". If you can't discern the actual meaning of this I can't help ya pal!!!!

Nice of you you to leave parts of the quote out.

Sports marketing expert Con Stavros, an associate professor at RMIT University, said membership counts were "overstated" as a barometer of club health but were ingrained as part of Melbourne AFL culture.

He doesnt say the numbers are false, its just that the meaning of membership counts has changed since they were no longer restricted to 11 and 16 game memberships. Maybe you should discern the actual meaning of this.

"It’s fascinating that the interstate clubs are now really trying to push the membership thing," Stavros told the Herald. "It’s lost a bit of its currency to the average person. We see the numbers now with clubs boasting 80,000 - when they were tied to 11 or 16-game memberships they were lower, 25,000 to 30,000. They held more weight then.

“Now, like all things in data, it becomes a number that is a bit unclear. Any sponsor who knows what they are doing, when they are presented with those numbers, will ask for the background behind it. They would ask for detail about how many fit into each category, how many actually go to games."

Nowhere does he say the numbers are false or made up, just they hold less weight.

This is due to the inclusion of 3 and 5 game members, or any member who pays at least $50 and is registered to the club data base.

Na. Na. Na. and Nyet. Wrong on every count pal. But it's pointless talking sense to bubble dwellers.

Good luck and gods speed.

I read it a little different.....


Yelp. Yelp Yelp and Yeeeeelp. Got me on every count pal.
It's pointless trying to take on these bubble dwellers.

God I hope he leaves it there....

[Beaussie]

Strangely there are pics of deserted grand stands. Like no one in 'em .........anywhere

I was there yesterday and didn’t see any grandstands that were as you put it “like no one in’em........anywhere”. Terry wrong again. Surprise, surprise.

[Terry]

Well folks......here we have the evidence of why the bubble exists. Normal people laugh at the announced GWS crowd. Fumble fans go ballistic. Sane, reasonable people see the evidence. Fumble fans hear only the word of the great god fumble. They nod and clap in unison. George Orwell based books around folk like this.

It's laughable and sad in equal measure. Good luck fumblers. I pray for your rehabilitation and feel no malice toward you. Slave like delusion is a hard place to come back from.

All the best.

[Beaussie]

Well folks......here we have the evidence of why the bubble exists. Normal people laugh at the announced GWS crowd. Fumble fans go ballistic. Sane, reasonable people see the evidence. Fumble fans hear only the word of the great god fumble. They nod and clap in unison. George Orwell based books around folk like this.

It's laughable and sad in equal measure. Good luck fumblers. I pray for your rehabilitation and feel no malice toward you. Slave like delusion is a hard place to come back from.

All the best.

Dude, it’s time you faced up to the reality here. You’ve been totally destroyed by Wookie and facts in this thread and others in the Fight Club. Hard to deal with no doubt, but that’s life. Pick yourself up and try again pal. lol

[Terry]

Well folks......here we have the evidence of why the bubble exists. Normal people laugh at the announced GWS crowd. Fumble fans go ballistic. Sane, reasonable people see the evidence. Fumble fans hear only the word of the great god fumble. They nod and clap in unison. George Orwell based books around folk like this.

It's laughable and sad in equal measure. Good luck fumblers. I pray for your rehabilitation and feel no malice toward you. Slave like delusion is a hard place to come back from.

All the best.

Dude, it’s time you faced up to the reality here. You’ve been totally destroyed by Wookie and facts in this thread and others in the Fight Club. Hard to deal with no doubt, but that the life. Pick yourself up and try again pal. lol

Thanks for the interaction pal. Your summation......whilst expected.......is predictably erroneous. I suggest you check the meaning of the words 'destroyed' and 'facts'. You appear to not understand what you say.

Also: I note you have come out of hiding lately to add to the bubble dwelling delusion here. Well done on that pal!!! Long may you fight on the front lines and not continue to cower behind your trembling troops!!!!!!

Tally ho the hunt!!!!

[AFLcrap1]

Aflol
Supposedly lol
90k members between .what fumblers call the biggest club in Syd & the new kids who are doing wonders for fumbles in the west of Sydney town .
Who are top 4 material ..
Wow you'd think this would be a sellout with that many members .
Lol
No
When reality meets propaganda .
The sane stay on the side of reality ...that's everyone who's not a cultist
The brainwashed ignore reality .
Where did all these new fumble fans go
Where did all these new members go
Where were they when the big battle of the bridge was on?
The big Syd AFL event .
What happened .

[AFLcrap1]

Lol aren't you cranky .
There's only 2 AFL clubs in SYD
We are continually told how big one is & how big the other is becoming .
We are continually reminded of membership numbers .
The gloating the boasting .
But when reality interferes with this you lot get the shits .
& before you go on aRL rant .
Remember .
We are not the ones who rant ..memberships memberships
Crowds crowds .
Look at us .
Reality sucks outside the bubble

Well if you're gunna big note be prepared to have it thrown back in your face when it turns out to be far different .
Lol
I'll await the cranky reply .

[notaleaguefan]

Lol aren't you cranky .
There's only 2 AFL clubs in SYD
We are continually told how big one is & how big the other is becoming .
We are continually reminded of membership numbers .
The gloating the boasting .
But when reality interferes with this you lot get the shits .
& before you go on aRL rant .
Remember .
We are not the ones who rant ..memberships memberships
Crowds crowds .
Look at us .
Reality sucks outside the bubble

Well if you're gunna big note be prepared to have it thrown back in your face when it turns out to be far different .
Lol
I'll await the cranky reply .

Think of some of the usual but but nrlol fan excuses
Bad weather
Ticket prices
Bad traffic

Etc the AFL fans can run with those