As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

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As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by Beaussie »

Very interesting and detailed analysis from the ABC. The linked cumulative tv ratings and crowds table in particular are worth a look too.

So... will the NRL return to Perth? The ongoing struggle for the NRL to attract fans and funding sounds like the biggest impediment to WA expansion.

As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth
By Tom Wildie
Posted Tue at 7:20am

Image
With Origin II an effective sell-out, the talk about a Perth NRL side is sure to rear its head. AAP: Darren England


It will be history in the making. An NRL State of Origin match — arguably the biggest sporting rivalry in Australia — will take place in Perth this weekend.

Holding an Origin game at a neutral venue is not a new thing, but it will be first time Western Australia has hosted the marquee event.

As the Origin show rolls into town, and with the game an effective sell-out, the inevitable discussion about whether Perth should have its own NRL side will rear its head.

The expansion of rugby league into staunch AFL territory is not a new conversation.

Indeed, the WA Government has made clear its desire to see an NRL side located in Perth whenever any expansion takes place.

That is not going to happen until at least 2023, when the current broadcast deal is renegotiated, given uncertainty around the magnitude of the next deal.

The struggle for fans and funding

The NRL is currently enjoying its biggest broadcast deal on record, valued at $1.8 billion until 2022, but there are concerns this may be the high-water mark for NRL broadcast rights.

Foxtel — a key player in any rights deal — has already flagged it would have to prioritize some sports over others as it struggles to adapt to a highly competitive market disrupted by streaming services like Netflix.

The size of the next deal will directly impact whether the code decides to add a 17th team, relocate one of its struggling Sydney sides to a different state or maintain the status quo.

Unlike the AFL, which enjoys huge match attendance figures, the NRL struggles to attract large numbers of fans to games.

AFL v NRL in attendances and TV ratings
The footy code war in cumulative attendances and TV ratings

https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/mtQUe/9/? ... height=500
TV ratings (FTA and pay TV) and attendance figures are cumulative from March 8 to August 5, 2018.
Source: AFLtables.com; TVtonight.com.au

EMBED: NRL and AFL TV ratings vs attendances


As a result, clubs depend heavily on the Australian Rugby League Commission for funding.

In 2016, only three teams made a profit across the NRL and only one of those was in New South Wales, where 10 of the 16 teams are based.

The arguments for a team in Perth are clear: A stand-alone timeslot, which in broadcast land is a strong bargaining chip when re-negotiating its rights deal; and a permanent NRL presence in a city dominated by AFL.

Image
The AFL regularly draws big crowds to Perth Stadium. Could the NRL do the same?
Supplied: Perth Stadium


But the overwhelming concern for any club, new or relocated, is whether there is the support in Western Australia to sustain it.

Overcoming history and a worrying trend

That is not to say there is not a base of supporters — four of the five highest attended sporting events at Perth Oval were rugby league matches, including the 2016 Test Match between the Kangaroos and New Zealand.

Whether that level of support, or anything even close to it, could be sustained is the big question.

Image
A Test match between the Kangaroos and New Zealand at Perth Oval in 2016 drew a big crowd.
AAP: Richard Wainwright


The Western Reds, Perth's only NRL side to date, attracted strong crowds at the WACA Ground until it defected to the Super League and was ultimately axed as part of a peace deal between the rival codes.

But the recent history of ball sports outside of the AFL in WA will not be attractive reading for any prospective side.

The Western Force was axed from Super Rugby in 2017 on the back of poor results and dwindling attendances, and the Perth Glory — despite sitting top of the A-League for most of last season — has battled to attract crowds of more than 10,000 on a consistent basis.

Average attendances at major codes

Code 2019 2018 2017

AFL 36,341 36,682 35,202

NRL 16,050 16,414 15,783

Super Rugby 11,311 11,004 11,434

A-League 10,899 10,912 12,650

Data: Austadiums.com


In a city where AFL sides West Coast and Fremantle dwarf all sporting opposition, attracting ongoing crowds for a league franchise will be a challenge.

This makes the next broadcast deal crucial in determining if Perth will be home to a NRL side in the near future.

We are four years away from a decision, but the conversation is well and truly underway.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-18/ ... tion=sport


"One in every 24 Australians is now a member of an AFL club, a sign that the national reach of Australian football has never been greater," League CEO Gillon McLachlan said.
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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by Fred »

The NRL desperately needs a team in Perth but agree finances will be critical. Not only for the club but to build the grassroots too. It will be an interesting landscape come tv rights negotiations. I really think they need to move yo 4 quarters, and I think they will sell off origin separately .


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by AngloFootballLeague »

Superficial article ignores potential of new fans & sponsors, broadcast money for extra game & desirable time slot. Typical southern states focus on crowd numbers. AngloFL propaganda.


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by Fred »

Good point re: extra game (if they add two teams). I think as we saw with the rugby union team they struggled with crowds although had a pretty big backer I believe but still folded. The other question is about having enough numbers at the elite level to play given the majority of players that hail from Australia are on the other side of the country... it’s a lot to ask a player to pack up and travel it seems so whilst the rookies will go will they stay ? I know that a lot of young people work away from their family and home state in general but when you have options and money this could be a factor. For me, I believe they have been doing WA right as there has been a push to grow the game at grass roots. I think they learned from the initial storm efforts that you just can’t plonk a team somewhere and expect it to grow. I think the article does point to a major issue rl May have and that is its poor crowds. With revenue from broadcast rights possibly not being the bucket of gold it once was, it is imperative that new revenue streams are tapped. Crowds is the one area that can be built upon. If the Perth club can’t stand alone can the nrl afford to plunge big bucks into it bring financially viable? With possible depleted revenue from tv rights this could be an issue. Whereas the AFL have lots of money as the biggest sporting body in the country (I believe) the Nrl simply do not have the money I believe that the afl do.

I think the nrl need a team in Perth and another in Brisbane. They also really do need another in Melbourne but this is going to happen anytime soon and currently not viable.


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by Terry »

So what exactly is this article saying? What is the one thing standing in the way? Is it crowds? Is it tv ratings? Is it funding? As usual the article headline is misleading and in this case it makes a statement it doesn't answer.

Let's have a clear mind look at it.......me!!!

Crowds: RL crowds always get criticised. The NRL have averaged 16/17k a game for the last number of years. The current holder of the soccer world cup - France - averages just over 20k for its top league. Italy's is about 22k. Both countries have 60Mill+ populations and soccer is their main game. By those standards the NRL does very well.

The WA Reds averaged around 10k in the late 90's. A new team would hope to get 12/13k. They won't get more and they won't expect more. In any case that number is achievable and what they should be working their assumptions around.
.
TV ratings: The NRL topped Australia as we all know. Add in more numbers for SOO & international & the numbers are great.

The broadcast money is currently in some doubt. Not just for RL but all sports including the fumbling game. Soccer and RU are in big trouble. RL and AFL not so much. I suspect both those codes will at least get the same but probably a small increase. They may even surprise .......again.....and get a reasonable lift.

The question for NRL expansion is simple: how much more money, if any, will the broadcasters pay for more teams. There is a clear scheduling possibility for extra revenue to broadcasters - a FTA Saturday night game.

This could be achieved by adding one team & having a bye or adding two teams and having an extra game. Two teams will obviously need more money. If its only one team it will Brisbane 2. If its two teams Perth are in.

Funding: The continual cry that only a few NRL clubs make a profit is disingenuous. Leagues club money is not taken into account. (The equivalent in AFL clubs is - i.e. hospitality & gaming). The NRL has been closing the gap in revenue with the AFL each year since they punted the Murdoch leach from 1/2 ownership. With good management this will continue.

A new club in Perth will need reasonable crowds, the NRL grant and some form of further funding. Either a private backer or a business plan with an additional long term revenue source.

They key is what value broadcasters would put on a Saturday FTA game. At this stage I would back in Brisbane 2. Perth is 50/50 at best.

You heard it here first!!!!!
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leeroy*NRL* (Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:50 pm)


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by notaleaguefan »

AngloFootballLeague wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:49 am Superficial article ignores potential of new fans & sponsors, broadcast money for extra game & desirable time slot. Typical southern states focus on crowd numbers. AngloFL propaganda.
potential :lol:
it points out the union and sokka sides struggling! what makes league any different

typical league fan having nfi except an imagination :thumbleft:


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by Terry »

notaleaguefan wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:19 pm
AngloFootballLeague wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:49 am Superficial article ignores potential of new fans & sponsors, broadcast money for extra game & desirable time slot. Typical southern states focus on crowd numbers. AngloFL propaganda.
potential :lol:
it points out the union and sokka sides struggling! what makes league any different

typical league fan having nfi except an imagination :thumbleft:
Villagers.......call me quick...I got one of yours!!!!!


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by notaleaguefan »

Terry wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:42 pm
notaleaguefan wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:19 pm
AngloFootballLeague wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:49 am Superficial article ignores potential of new fans & sponsors, broadcast money for extra game & desirable time slot. Typical southern states focus on crowd numbers. AngloFL propaganda.
potential :lol:
it points out the union and sokka sides struggling! what makes league any different

typical league fan having nfi except an imagination :thumbleft:
Villagers.......call me quick...I got one of yours!!!!!
the article addressed several real world not nrlol fan world issues :)))
such as fans, financial and sponsorship & past sporting club issues!

yet its mocked as a afl propaganda piece :lol:
previous attempts by the nrlol of the gold coke titans and minnowborne storm make the afls gws and gcs look like success stories!

yet in the eyes of the league fan all is perfect in the world of the nrlol and afl bad


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by NRL&NFLweLaughATafl »

I agree the size of the next tv deal will be what makes the decision in Perth for a team.
But the article saying it will struggle for fans isn't true. They have sold out Australia vs New Zealand tests for Rugby League in Perth.
I actually think Rugby League is more popular in Perth than Melbourne.

So fans won't be a problem. Heck we have put a team in Toronto Canada (Wolfpack) where Rugby League was not existing before.

So if they can get a team going in Canada. They can do it in Perth where Rugby codes are not so alien.
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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by AngloFootballLeague »

notaleaguefan wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:19 pm
AngloFootballLeague wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:49 am Superficial article ignores potential of new fans & sponsors, broadcast money for extra game & desirable time slot. Typical southern states focus on crowd numbers. AngloFL propaganda.
potential :lol:
it points out the union and sokka sides struggling! what makes league any different

typical league fan having nfi except an imagination :thumbleft:
Check twitter handle of journalist to see he is another AngloFL plant. More dick measuring over crowd numbers than a real article. Broadcasting deal will be more important for club to be viable.


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by notaleaguefan »

AngloFootballLeague wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:04 pm
notaleaguefan wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:19 pm
AngloFootballLeague wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:49 am Superficial article ignores potential of new fans & sponsors, broadcast money for extra game & desirable time slot. Typical southern states focus on crowd numbers. AngloFL propaganda.
potential :lol:
it points out the union and sokka sides struggling! what makes league any different

typical league fan having nfi except an imagination :thumbleft:
Check twitter handle of journalist to see he is another AngloFL plant. More dick measuring over crowd numbers than a real article. Broadcasting deal will be more important for club to be viable.
sponsors
fans
financials

yep dick measuring and fantasy things :lol:

the 101 how league fans think :lol:


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by AngloFootballLeague »

notaleaguefan wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:19 pm
AngloFootballLeague wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:49 am Superficial article ignores potential of new fans & sponsors, broadcast money for extra game & desirable time slot. Typical southern states focus on crowd numbers. AngloFL propaganda.
potential :lol:
it points out the union and sokka sides struggling! what makes league any different

typical league fan having nfi except an imagination :thumbleft:
notaleaguefan wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:56 pm
AngloFootballLeague wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:04 pm
notaleaguefan wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:19 pm
potential :lol:
it points out the union and sokka sides struggling! what makes league any different

typical league fan having nfi except an imagination :thumbleft:
Check twitter handle of journalist to see he is another AngloFL plant. More dick measuring over crowd numbers than a real article. Broadcasting deal will be more important for club to be viable.
sponsors
fans
financials

yep dick measuring and fantasy things :lol:

the 101 how league fans think :lol:
No getting another country to play has made AngloFL not only racist & insular, but also insecure of better sports. NRL has most TV viewers every year & is still to crack all mainland cities - so much potential. Meanwhile, AngloFL has over saturated markets & lost millions on expansion.


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by Fred »

Nrl firstly doesn’t have most tv ratings every year ... last year the nrl had most cumulative ratings for the year but think that was for the first time. But, without opening up a Pandora’s box lets just say there are different view points when it comes to ratings. We do know that when an nrl game is up against an stand alone game the afl game ( e.g Friday night, finals etc) the Afl usually wins. There is also SoO for rugby league which is a ratings jugernaught, widely popular and gets the interest of the nation.

Also, somewhat tongue in check, but Naru has Aussie Rules as their national sport also I am told. Also, with AFL being the biggest sporting body in the country I believe don’t think they are too insecure.

Agree with the comment that if nrl could gain popularity outside nsw and qld or increase it there is massive potential to totally dominate. Hence the need to get cracking and build grassroots which, compared to afls grassroots across the country, iscietiallt non existent (


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by AngloFootballLeague »

AngloFL so secure they blocked stadiums for FIFA World Cup bid.
Grassroots players are irrelevant as shown by on & off field success of Melbourne Storm - Elitist swans boast few locals as well. Plenty of talent for RL in Pacific, UK etc.


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Re: As the State of Origin show rolls into WA, one thing stands in the way of an NRL team in Perth

Post by notaleaguefan »

AngloFootballLeague wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:43 am
notaleaguefan wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:19 pm
AngloFootballLeague wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:49 am Superficial article ignores potential of new fans & sponsors, broadcast money for extra game & desirable time slot. Typical southern states focus on crowd numbers. AngloFL propaganda.
potential :lol:
it points out the union and sokka sides struggling! what makes league any different

typical league fan having nfi except an imagination :thumbleft:
notaleaguefan wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:56 pm
AngloFootballLeague wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:04 pm

Check twitter handle of journalist to see he is another AngloFL plant. More dick measuring over crowd numbers than a real article. Broadcasting deal will be more important for club to be viable.
sponsors
fans
financials

yep dick measuring and fantasy things :lol:

the 101 how league fans think :lol:
No getting another country to play has made AngloFL not only racist & insular, but also insecure of better sports. NRL has most TV viewers every year & is still to crack all mainland cities - so much potential. Meanwhile, AngloFL has over saturated markets & lost millions on expansion.
First time in nearly a decade that happened! It all comes down to scheduling like any game shown in isolation the afl murders then nrlol and how accurate can 5000 rating boxes be for 25 million Australians

Then take out the ratings the afl is decades ahead in every metric


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