The Gold Coast

[The Prophet]

There has recently been a lot of speculation about a possible second team in South East Queensland- this one on the Gold Coast.

If the AFL gets its way, it will be a relocated North Melbourne. Otherwise it might be a 17th license.

Either way, what do you all think about this proposal?

For my money, logic suggests it would be a bad thing for everyone. If it fails it will make the AFL lok just as laughable as the other codes in this country whose teams come and go. For it to succeed it would require countless resources (money, time, effort) on the part of the AFL and this would come at the detriment of the other 15 or 16 clubs.

For instance, Brisbane were given numerous concessions to help them to their flags between 2001-2003. It could be argued that Collingwood were more or less jibbed by the AFL's attempt to increase the sport's popularity in SEQ. The AFL knows that the best way to market its product is to make it win and would no doubt give the Gold Coast team all manner of concessions to expedite on field success. This would hurt all other teams.

What do you all think?

www.goldcoasttruth.org

[Beaussie]

There has recently been a lot of speculation about a possible second team in South East Queensland- this one on the Gold Coast.

If the AFL gets its way, it will be a relocated North Melbourne. Otherwise it might be a 17th license.

Either way, what do you all think about this proposal?

For my money, logic suggests it would be a bad thing for everyone. If it fails it will make the AFL lok just as laughable as the other codes in this country whose teams come and go. For it to succeed it would require countless resources (money, time, effort) on the part of the AFL and this would come at the detriment of the other 15 or 16 clubs.

For instance, Brisbane were given numerous concessions to help them to their flags between 2001-2003. It could be argued that Collingwood were more or less jibbed by the AFL's attempt to increase the sport's popularity in SEQ. The AFL knows that the best way to market its product is to make it win and would no doubt give the Gold Coast team all manner of concessions to expedite on field success. This would hurt all other teams.

What do you all think?

www.goldcoasttruth.org

Personally I'd like to see Southport granted their own licence, but failing that, relocation for the Roos. Today's board meeting for the Roos will be interesting particularly what the AFL offers should the Roos take the relocation option.

Board members are talking about 8 games on the Gold Coast today. Surely that is a move towards total relocation. What are your thoughts about such talk today in the media?

[LisaJ]

It will be interesting to see if the Gold Coast can sustain the moment up for another AFL team..

[dogsact]

It wont work. Brisbane was struggling until their run of 3 premierships. I think this is madness. But if Hitler Demetriou wants, he will get.

[LisaJ]

It wont work. Brisbane was struggling until their run of 3 premierships. I think this is madness. But if Hitler Demetriou wants, he will get.

I agree with you, it won't work. Both Sydney and Brisbane continue to struggle with just 1 team, despite both teams being amongst the top teams in the AFL, now!

So I guess only time will tell, but if the Roos are thinking of heading north, at least they have a fan base at home to support them if things go pearshaped..

[kaskill]

i reakon if i was a player and they asked me if i wanted to move from melbourne to the gold coast id have my bags packed in minutes!!

[Willis 21]

For a true picture of AFL's support in QLD, you only need to look and see what is happening to the Brisbane Lions since the AFL cut off their unfair salary cap allowance...

-Below average performance on the field
-Lowest number of members of any club in the comp
-Pathetic TV ratings

NRL is really booming in QLD at the moment, so I dont think the AFL could have picked a worse time to push this.

I hope they do put a team on the GC ( particularly a relocated team and not a new team...)

- It will pee off a couple of hundered thousand fans in Melbourne, and may lead to an increase in Storm supporters ( for a comparison look at what happened to the Nth Sydney Bears in the NRL - a lot of their supporters went to Union and AFL).

-It will be a huge drain on AFL resources for decades to come without anything in return ( we are talking tens of millions)

-The stadium is an absolute shyte hole, and with the State Gov just spending $160 mil on a new rectangle stadium up the road, I would imagine that the coffers are empty in the near to mid future...

-Gold coast people have proven time and time again that they are not interested in AFL ( 12,000 at Carrara is considered a great crowd...)

Bring it on I say..

[Beaussie]

The Kangaroos being dragged kicking and screaming to the Gold Coast will not be good for footy up there, despite that being the preferred option of the AFL.

The AFL would be better off following the successful model shown by the Gold Coast Titans. Give the people their own team.

[The Prophet]

Well the NMFC Board are having a critically important meeting today.

Let us hope, for the good of our great game, the Board tell Adolph Demetriou and his cohort of 'businessman' that they can stick the Gold Coast where the sun don't shine.

www.goldcoasttruth.org

[Beaussie]

NRL is really booming in QLD at the moment, so I dont think the AFL could have picked a worse time to push this.

Of course you would say that.

Exactly when would be a good time in your opinion to set up an AFL team on the Gold Coast?

-It will be a huge drain on AFL resources for decades to come without anything in return ( we are talking tens of millions)

According to you, right?

-The stadium is an absolute shyte hole, and with the State Gov just spending $160 mil on a new rectangle stadium up the road, I would imagine that the coffers are empty in the near to mid future...

Latest reports in the media suggest the AFL is in negotiations with the QLD government as we speak regarding the redevelopment of Cararra.

-Gold coast people have proven time and time again that they are not interested in AFL ( 12,000 at Carrara is considered a great crowd...)

Fair go, the ground does not hold much more in its current state.

[Willis 21]

Exactly when would be a good time in your opinion to set up an AFL team on the Gold Coast?

I think they have missed the boat now that the Titans are there..

According to you, right?

And the AFL themselves

Latest reports in the media suggest the AFL is in negotiations with the QLD government as we speak regarding the redevelopment of Cararra.

Link?

Fair go, the ground does not hold much more in its current state.

Not according to Austadiums

http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/stadiums.php?id=31

Carrara Stadium has main grandstands on either side of the ground, and grassed areas around the rest of the ground. It has a total capacity of around 18,000 including 5,300 undercover seats and 2,500 transportable seats which can be placed in front of the outer grandstand for Rugby League matches.

15,500 capacity, yet the AFL averages 10,907 at the ground

http://www.austadiums.com/sport/stadium.php?id=31

[Beaussie]

Exactly when would be a good time in your opinion to set up an AFL team on the Gold Coast?

I think they have missed the boat now that the Titans are there..

According to you, right?

And the AFL themselves

Not according to the Southport Sharks who've been lobbying for a licence since 1996.

Sharks will take bait
18 November 2007 Sunday Herald Sun
Jackie Epstein
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/ ... 97,00.html

THE Southport Sharks have declared their interest in securing a 17th licence should the Kangaroos reject a move to the Gold Coast.

Sharks CEO Dean Bowtell says the club is ready to step in if the AFL is forced to look elsewhere, but believes the Kangaroos would be silly to reject the lucrative relocation offer.

"Things are starting to become a little bit pointy and we'd expect that when the relocation or new licence is issued we'll be involved," Bowtell said.

The Sharks have 45,000 members and would relish the challenge of taking on rugby league and union.

The Kangaroos met on Friday, but have not yet reached a decision.

Bowtell has a simple message.

"Commit to this region - we need it," he said.

"The Gold Coast needs an AFL team. We've got rugby union coming in, soccer's on the way and the Gold Coast Titans have had a good year or two and they are absolutely smashing it."

Latest reports in the media suggest the AFL is in negotiations with the QLD government as we speak regarding the redevelopment of Cararra.

Link?

...the offer remains conditional on the AFL reaching an agreement with the Queensland Government on a deal for a new stadium, which is still being negotiated

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/1 ... 69564.html

[Willis 21]

You honestly believe some of the spin being sprouted about the Gold Coast and the Southport Sharks??

http://northernkangaroos.com/mythsgoldcoast.html

Myths: The Gold Coast

The following is a rebuttal to some of the common myths surrounding the supposed ‘Kangaroo sanctuary’ in the Gold Coast.



Myth: ‘South East Queensland is bursting with money to give to the AFL’
Fact: In 2006, the Brisbane Lions Football Club posted a loss of almost $1,000,000.

This was despite the fact that the team is still the most successful of the AFL’s modern era, amassing four Grand Finals and, incredibly, three Premierships in succession from 2001-2004. Not only has the club been tremendously successful on-field, but in 2006 its only local competition for support was just one NRL team (the Brisbane Broncos) and one Super 12 team (the Queensland Reds).

2007 saw the addition of a second NRL team (the Gold Coast Titans), and a new ARC club (the East Coast Aces). The extra competition that these teams bring about can only have a negative effect on Brisbane’s bottom line. Brisbane has struggled to consistently keep its financial head above water ever since the club's creation, and will continue to do so- in spite of the fact that they are the only AFL club based in the state.

If there was plenty of financial support on offer for AFL teams in South East Queensland, the only footy club in the state wouldn’t be posting any annual losses- let alone those of up to a million dollars.



Myth: ‘South East Queensland is full of eager AFL supporters waiting for a team to follow’
Fact: In 2007, the Brisbane Lions recorded the lowest membership uptake in the entire AFL.

More worryingly, of the 21,967 members who did sign up, some 3,161 are based in Melbourne, so less than 19,000 actual Queenslanders parted way with their money for Brisbane memberships in 2007. Again, this is on the back of an incredibly successful period on-field, where supporters were treated to four Grand Finals and three Premierships.

In fact, the membership tally was still a healthy 30,027 in 2005, but since then has dropped by over 8000 or, remarkably, around 27% in just 2 years. This, above any other statistic, shows the volatility of the market in the region. Again, with the competition for support increasing with the addition of the aforementioned clubs of rival codes, Brisbane’s membership drive in 2007 can only suffer further in 2008 and beyond.

South-East Queensland has a team to follow, and has had for 20 years. If there really were plenty of eager fans in the area, the only footy club in the state wouldn’t be sitting dead-last on the AFL membership tally, with less than 19,000 local members.



Myth: ‘The Gold Coast is practically football territory’
Fact: There is still far more support for the Rugby codes than there is for Footy.

For a simple but effective illustration of this, take a look at the following comparison:

In 2005, the NRL staged a match between the Bulldogs (of Sydney) and the Cowboys (of North Queensland) at Carrara Stadium. Although neither team was based at the Gold Coast in any way, 21,012 people turned out to watch.

In 2006, the AFL staged a match between Melbourne and Adelaide, also at Carrara. Again, neither team had any affiliation with the Gold Coast. This time only 8,258 people turned out.

Although there is some liking for Aussie Rules in the area, any suggestion that it even compares to that of rugby is, at best, utterly ridiculous.



Myth: ‘The Southport Sharks football team has a legion of fans’
Fact: The Southport team has about as many supporters as your local country football team.

Whilst it is true that the club boasts 40,000 members, these members each paid $5 for their ‘memberships’ and in doing so received free car-parking, free bingo, access to the TAB and pokies etc. For a better insight into the true numbers of their football supporters the 2007 QAFL Grand Final between Southport and Mt. Gravatt gives us some indication- approximately 3,000 people are supposed to have attended (and, naturally, not all of these people were supporting Southport).

Perhaps the rest of the 40,000 members were planning to attend, but got stuck ‘winning their money back’ at the Southport pokies.

[Willis 21]

Anyway... your from Sydney for Chrissakes.. .you know better then believe the hype of Southport Sharks membership..

It would be me like saying that Penrith Panthers have 50,000 members ( through their Leagues club..)

[Beaussie]

You honestly believe some of the spin being sprouted about the Gold Coast and the Southport Sharks??

It's not spin when you have the money to back your claims. Like I said, Southport have been lobbying the AFL for a licence since 1996. Clearly they have plenty in cash reserves to back their claims.

Meanwhile you post the link below as evidence that the AFL has little chance of success on the Gold Coast. You do know a North Melbourne supporter put that website together and the so called 'truth' is very questionable - in fact many errors on that site have already been pointed out on Big Footy. No surprises that the corrections have not been made though.

http://northernkangaroos.com/mythsgoldcoast.html

Myths: The Gold Coast

The following is a rebuttal to some of the common myths surrounding the supposed ‘Kangaroo sanctuary’ in the Gold Coast.

Myth: ‘South East Queensland is bursting with money to give to the AFL’
Fact: In 2006, the Brisbane Lions Football Club posted a loss of almost $1,000,000.

This was despite the fact that the team is still the most successful of the AFL’s modern era, amassing four Grand Finals and, incredibly, three Premierships in succession from 2001-2004. Not only has the club been tremendously successful on-field, but in 2006 its only local competition for support was just one NRL team (the Brisbane Broncos) and one Super 12 team (the Queensland Reds).

2007 saw the addition of a second NRL team (the Gold Coast Titans), and a new ARC club (the East Coast Aces). The extra competition that these teams bring about can only have a negative effect on Brisbane’s bottom line. Brisbane has struggled to consistently keep its financial head above water ever since the club's creation, and will continue to do so- in spite of the fact that they are the only AFL club based in the state.

If there was plenty of financial support on offer for AFL teams in South East Queensland, the only footy club in the state wouldn’t be posting any annual losses- let alone those of up to a million dollars.

The following response from Big Footy covers it sufficiently I would say:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthrea ... ost9481196

The Lions made a loss in 2001 but made profits in 1998, 1999 and 2007 also.

The Lions in 2007 still had more members than they did in 2001 and only 312 less than the amount they had in 2002 (after their first premiership). Should they reach their stated aim of 28,000 in 2008 (and early indications are quite good), then 2008 will be their third highest membership on record.

Brisbane Lions profits and losses 1997-2007 (11 years)

1997 - loss of ($60,827) - 8th
1998 - profit of $445,744 - 16th
1999 - profit of $124,562 - 4th
2000 - loss of ($82,616) - (Gabba redevelopment) - 6th
2001 - loss of ($845,390) - 1st
2002 - profit of $1,249,371 - 1st
2003 - profit of $2,208,713 - 1st
2004 – profit of $2,177,092 - 2nd
2005 – profit of $1,450,000 - 12th
2006 – loss of ($994,419) - 13th
2007 - profit of $1,133,000 - 10th

Sources: Brisbane Lions Annual Financial Reports - 1997-2006
2007 - http://www.lions.com.au/Season2007/N...x?newsId=53254

And if you'd like to compare the above figures with the Brisbane Bears since the Bears became a membership-based club in 1992......

1992 - profit of $524,147
1993 - loss of ($252,788)
1994 - profit of $90,141
1995 - loss of ($108,964)
1996 - profit of $1,273,360

Doesn't look like the addition of the Titans in the NRL had much of a negative impact on the Lions bottom line in 2007 despite the poor on field perfomance of the Lions. Profit actually increased. Go figure eh. Wonder what the financial results were for the Titans in their first season?

Myth: ‘South East Queensland is full of eager AFL supporters waiting for a team to follow’
Fact: In 2007, the Brisbane Lions recorded the lowest membership uptake in the entire AFL.

More worryingly, of the 21,967 members who did sign up, some 3,161 are based in Melbourne, so less than 19,000 actual Queenslanders parted way with their money for Brisbane memberships in 2007. Again, this is on the back of an incredibly successful period on-field, where supporters were treated to four Grand Finals and three Premierships.

In fact, the membership tally was still a healthy 30,027 in 2005, but since then has dropped by over 8000 or, remarkably, around 27% in just 2 years. This, above any other statistic, shows the volatility of the market in the region. Again, with the competition for support increasing with the addition of the aforementioned clubs of rival codes, Brisbane’s membership drive in 2007 can only suffer further in 2008 and beyond.

South-East Queensland has a team to follow, and has had for 20 years. If there really were plenty of eager fans in the area, the only footy club in the state wouldn’t be sitting dead-last on the AFL membership tally, with less than 19,000 local members.

Addressed above in the response from Big Footy. On another note, exactly how does the Brisbane Broncos or Gold Coast Titans membership numbers stack up against the Lions? I'd say confidently the Lions have more members than the Broncos and Titans put together.

Myth: ‘The Gold Coast is practically football territory’
Fact: There is still far more support for the Rugby codes than there is for Footy.

For a simple but effective illustration of this, take a look at the following comparison:

In 2005, the NRL staged a match between the Bulldogs (of Sydney) and the Cowboys (of North Queensland) at Carrara Stadium. Although neither team was based at the Gold Coast in any way, 21,012 people turned out to watch.

In 2006, the AFL staged a match between Melbourne and Adelaide, also at Carrara. Again, neither team had any affiliation with the Gold Coast. This time only 8,258 people turned out.

Although there is some liking for Aussie Rules in the area, any suggestion that it even compares to that of rugby is, at best, utterly ridiculous.

If what is stated above is the so called true state of Australian Football on the Gold Coast, why would Channel 7 and 10 broadcast all games (including Friday Night AFL) live or on slight delay on the Gold Coast - and no they are not required by contract to do that. Games held on the Gold Coast in 2007 attracted very healthy crowd support. Enough in fact, to confirm to the AFL there is a market for a new team.

Myth: ‘The Southport Sharks football team has a legion of fans’
Fact: The Southport team has about as many supporters as your local country football team.

Whilst it is true that the club boasts 40,000 members, these members each paid $5 for their ‘memberships’ and in doing so received free car-parking, free bingo, access to the TAB and pokies etc. For a better insight into the true numbers of their football supporters the 2007 QAFL Grand Final between Southport and Mt. Gravatt gives us some indication- approximately 3,000 people are supposed to have attended (and, naturally, not all of these people were supporting Southport).

Perhaps the rest of the 40,000 members were planning to attend, but got stuck ‘winning their money back’ at the Southport pokies.

Fair dinkum, is this joker suggesting a VFL game would attract many more than 3,000 fans?

Fact remains, Southport and the AFL are ready to go weather the Kangaroos decide to relocate or not. Is it any wonder why Searle from the Gold Coast Titans is so concerned? Competition backed by the number one football code administration in Australia is on its way to the Gold Coast.