Citizenship test how well would you do

Society, politics, culture and everything and anything that doesn't fit on the other boards.

Do you agree with GOvernments citizenship test

Poll ended at Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:18 am

yes
2
29%
no
5
71%
 
Total votes: 7

yeenar69
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Post by yeenar69 »

Willis 21 wrote:
yeenar69 wrote:

BLAME??? I was inferring to the lack of acknowledgement of history and not the continued WHITEWASH
What acknowledgement do you want?

And is it gunna change anything that has happened??

:roll:
Its part of the healing processes and moving on together as a nation but when the conttinuation of the denial of the truth is ignored their is no moving forwARD TOGETHER IS THERE
yeenar69
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Post by yeenar69 »

dogsact wrote:
Ignorant. I thought it was pretty Ignorant to label hard working folk Rednecks when they are the backbone of the country. Dont bite the hand that feeds you.
Why don't we just import all our agricultural needs, then see how tough it is for you to survive. Im not going to take everything you say as gospel out of some misguided sense of repentance for mistakes of past generations. Where is the apology to my family in that case, for sending us over here as convicts against our will. It is not ignorance just because some of us have differing opinions to you. :?
import ... a hell of a lot is

but it is ignorant to deny that the so called back bone of this country was from that of the ABorigines for slave wages and presuming that all land holders were convicts well my fathers people were not they were aristocrats and were granted land ... gee they worked so HARD ... NOT
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Post by TLPG »

To both Dogsact and Willis - do NOT make any comparisons between the Irish and the Aborigines. ANYTHING that you state that happened to the Irish also happened to the Aborigines - except the Aborigines got it WORSE!

For example - did the Brits ever try to break up families? Did the Brits ever have a part of the constitution that made it LEGAL to treat the Irish like crap?

Fact - the Aborigines got it worse, and for a much longer period as well. And they couldn't fight back because the law was against them! That NEVER happened to the Irish! By 1967 when the law was corrected the damage was already done.

And until the current government apologises for the actions of it's predecessors, the Aborigines will never have the closure they need (as Yeenar alluded to). I signed the Sorry Book. Anyone who didn't doesn't understand and shouldn't make any claims that they do.
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Post by dogsact »

I never once stated EVERY farmer was a convict. I realize there are many farmers out there from Aristocracy like the Kidmans etc. Those are the agriculturists who more than likely took unfair advantage of the Aboriginal people also. The average farmer though, with his small land grant could barely afford to keep his farm. Most could not even afford to pay "slave" labour. Dont group every farmer the same. I dont call every Aboriginal welfare dependant. I don't deny the wrongs of the past, just like you should not tar everyone with the same brush.

Im dropping this, cos we clearly will not agree here. But I am not going to buy into the political correctness that a small minority of the population try to force us to. My grandmother is German, I will not apologize to the Jewish population. Nor will I deny the Holocaust happened. I am living in the now, I suggest others do the same.
yeenar69
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Post by yeenar69 »

well Im sorry .... sorry for the lack of empathy by so called fellow Australians

Ohh and I dont expect people to feel guilt but to try and understand and not deny that Australia has a black history, as we have survived and we aint goin' away :wink:
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Post by dogsact »

Oh and TLPG,

I suggest you take a closer look at the treatment of the Irish. They have copped centuries of cruelty from the English. For that matter, so did the Scottish. The English made many laws for centuries, specifically designed to keep the Irish and Scottish down.

The right of an appointed English lord to have first sexual congress with a newly married woman. In an attempt to breed the Irish or Scottish out of them, thus making them "half Casts" almost worthy of being British subjects. The total wiping out of clans at the hands of the English, or other clans forced under the threat of death themselves by the English. No TLPG, it has been going on much longer than 200 years. I can compare, and i will.

FACT- It WAS against the law for them to fight back! FACT - Families WERE seperated, with children being sent across the land to be slave labour for rich families. It happened for centuries! If you deny that, you need your head read.

Do you think the Irish and Scottish underlying hatred of the English is something that developed in the last eighty years? I think and Know this is not the case.
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Post by dogsact »

Yeenar, I don't deny Aboriginal History or what has been done to them. Nor do i wish you to go away. I am just trying to state once again, most farmers are not Rednecks, most did not do these atrocities. The crimes of a few reflect bad on the whole though.
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Post by TLPG »

Another point - since when was Ireland a part of Great Britain? Northern Ireland is, but when did that happen? So how could English law effect Ireland hmmm?

Aside from Northern Ireland, when did the English claim the land as their own? And refuse to give it back?

Never.

But that's what happened to the Aborigines! They were treated like foreigners on their own land for 179 years LEGALLY. It was in the constitution. We changed it in 1967 because it was WRONG. And it did major cultural and social damage to a society that bore little resemblance (as in 1788) to the more civilised Irish and Scottish societies. The English never regarded the Irish and the Scots as savages. Yes they were enemies, but they never treated them with such contempt as we did the Aborigines.

Sorry - but if you deny that, you are the one who needs your head read.

And I wonder just how much you value self esteem as an issue.
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Post by Willis 21 »

Another point - since when was Ireland a part of Great Britain? Northern Ireland is, but when did that happen? So how could English law effect Ireland hmmm?

Aside from Northern Ireland, when did the English claim the land as their own? And refuse to give it back?
The whole of Ireland was under British rule for centuries, and its only been relatively recently ( since 1922) that Ireland has had its independence from Great Britian (after a decades long bitter struggle against the Poms...).

You really are an ignoramus and should stick to football only. I certainly will be ignoring anything further you say in this forum from now on...
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Post by dogsact »

Do you wonder why there are so many countries represented at the Commonwealth games? All of these countries were at some stage under the control of the British Empire. And history shows the British Empire was as nasty as any great empires of the past, if not worse. Im not going to continue with this. I will reiterate one more time that I only took exception to the REDNECK labelling of farmers. I did not put the plight of the Aboriginals on the agenda.

I understand they have issues, as i have said. Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand!
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Post by yeenar69 »

YOU DONT CARE that one was obvious before you stated it but the fact is that EVERYONE SHOULD CARE

yet youR passion for your true mother country appears evident and yet you deny working class farmers are not racist (rednecks) more working class people WHO DONT CARE ARE MORE RACIST THAN ANYONE ELSE including the aristocrats and well when they were still killing our people before the ABorigines protection Board act at the turn of the century well they actually gave sanctuary to many Aboriginal people and were paying them award wages during this period as they needed them as the working class were all out trying to get rich quick in the gold fields
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Post by dogsact »

Now you are just boring me. :twisted:
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Post by TLPG »

Willis, you are a racist. There is a big difference between the two still. Ireland has it's own laws, government and everything else. And they have had nearly 100 years free of British interference.

Interference in Aboriginal affairs still goes on today, despite it no longer being legal (for the most part) since 1967! Big difference between 1967 and 1922!! That's almost two complete generations!!

You are the ignoramus, buster! If you want to ignore me from now on that's fine - because the feeling is bloody mutual!!
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Post by TLPG »

dogsact wrote:
I understand they have issues, as i have said. Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand!
Dogsact, if you did understand then you'd care. Now I for one didn't label farmers rednecks - there are some good ones out there who are actually prepared to do the right thing even though they don't have to. And I haven't heard any horror stories resulting from it. My beef with the farmers is limited to the NFF and their petty scaremongering over Native Title.

You see - we are responsible for the welfare of the Aborigines. They are Australian. Even more Australian than any of us white fellas because our heritage traces back to other countries. But we shirked that responsibility for 179 years at least and in a lot of ways we still do it now. Hence the ALP's blast at the government along the lines of "You took your time!" when they finally starting acting in the communities to stop child abuse and so forth.

That's distinct from Willis's argument re Ireland and England. Ireland - since 1922 - have been able to pick themselves up and create a great country for themselves. And I say good for them. They were able to do that and unaided (generally speaking). The Aborigines can't do that - their culture and their self esteem has been trampled, something that didn't happen to the Irish (if it had they would still be under British rule today). The Aborigines are still governed by the white man. That won't change of course, so the next best thing to it's own country is a treaty - like the one the Maoris have in New Zealand.

And the apology.
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yeenar69
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Post by yeenar69 »

THE BEST THING THAT CAN HAPPEN IS CALLED SELF DETERMINATION see the biggest problem has been that non ABoriginal people continue to feel that they know what is best for the ABorigines .... FACT IS that self empowement of our people will come only when they can take responsibility and determine their own futures
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