Marn grook...

Which is the best football code? Here you can have it out with other football fans.
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Pippen1994
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Marn grook...

Post by Pippen1994 »

...so this faslehold exposed considering the premise was Wills was woke enough to ignore prejudice of time & adopt indigenous game?!!


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Quolls2019 »

There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Pippen1994 »

Tell the afl zealots that


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Fred »

I thought this was well known. It used to be promoted as such - by many indigenous groups I worked with in Victoria - in schools and such - but I thought later researched showed this not to be true... may be I read it on here somewhere?


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Bumsniffers »

Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 am There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.
The AFL adopted the position that it was possible, but not really certain until a few years back. With the Goodes thing, they evidently decided to embrace it a little more.

A lot of AFL folks are inclined to discount the work of historians with a known bent for other codes, like Roy Hay in particular.

Howcver, I think Wills influence on the game is somewhat over-rated. Yes he wrote a letter advocating for a game of our own, and yes he was at the first meetings - but people at the meeting note that he put forth rugby rules which werent acceptable to the rest. The dude was literally one of 7 people involved, and he wasnt at follow up meetings where the rules were updated and rewritten in 1859 and 1860.

The entire Marngrook thing rests on the idea that Wills MAY have seen and MAY have played, but theres no concrete evidence he did either.


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Terry »

Bumsniffers wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:28 pm
Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 am There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.
The AFL adopted the position that it was possible, but not really certain until a few years back. With the Goodes thing, they evidently decided to embrace it a little more.

A lot of AFL folks are inclined to discount the work of historians with a known bent for other codes, like Roy Hay in particular.

Howcver, I think Wills influence on the game is somewhat over-rated. Yes he wrote a letter advocating for a game of our own, and yes he was at the first meetings - but people at the meeting note that he put forth rugby rules which werent acceptable to the rest. The dude was literally one of 7 people involved, and he wasnt at follow up meetings where the rules were updated and rewritten in 1859 and 1860.

The entire Marngrook thing rests on the idea that Wills MAY have seen and MAY have played, but theres no concrete evidence he did either.


Fake new BumSniffing Wookie!!! Actual historians employed by bumsniffing fumble house proved it didn't happen. Case closed!!!!!


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Bumsniffers »

Terry wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:56 pm Fake new BumSniffing Wookie!!! Actual historians employed by bumsniffing fumble house proved it didn't happen. Case closed!!!!!
One historian has suggested its a myth. (in the official AFL history in 2008).

Others - including AFL execs - have since changed their tune.

Theres no proof in either direction, but Marngrooks influence on the game is chiefly based on the absence of evidence rather than anything tangible.


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Terry »

Bumsniffers wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:25 pm
Terry wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:56 pm Fake new BumSniffing Wookie!!! Actual historians employed by bumsniffing fumble house proved it didn't happen. Case closed!!!!!
One historian has suggested its a myth. (in the official AFL history in 2008).

Others - including AFL execs - have since changed their tune.

Theres no proof in either direction, but Marngrooks influence on the game is chiefly based on the absence of evidence rather than anything tangible.

Oh Gee..............you're a genius pal.........."chiefly based on the absence of evidence rather anything tangible" lololololololololol. If anything has an absence of evidence it didn't happen ya dill!!!! Ya just can't make it up pal!!!


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Bumsniffers »

Terry wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:52 pm Oh Gee..............you're a genius pal.........."chiefly based on the absence of evidence rather anything tangible" lololololololololol. If anything has an absence of evidence it didn't happen ya dill!!!! Ya just can't make it up pal!!!
You understand that we're literally arguing the same point here?
Go back go your other sites will ya!!! Since you've been gone the place has picked up again. Don't spoil it!!!!!!
Ive no idea what your talking about.


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Quolls2019 »

Bumsniffers wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:28 pm
Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 am There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.
The AFL adopted the position that it was possible, but not really certain until a few years back. With the Goodes thing, they evidently decided to embrace it a little more.

A lot of AFL folks are inclined to discount the work of historians with a known bent for other codes, like Roy Hay in particular.

However, I think Wills influence on the game is somewhat over-rated. Yes he wrote a letter advocating for a game of our own, and yes he was at the first meetings - but people at the meeting note that he put forth rugby rules which werent acceptable to the rest. The dude was literally one of 7 people involved, and he wasnt at follow up meetings where the rules were updated and rewritten in 1859 and 1860.

The entire Marngrook thing rests on the idea that Wills MAY have seen and MAY have played, but theres no concrete evidence he did either.
I agree on Wills influence being substantially less that credited, not often given credit is the local pub owner, James Bryant’s name is mentioned several times, he organised the 1859 game, supplied the accoutrements and the venue for the first and following meetings, was also regularly named as captain of several subsequent games.
Even in 1858 Wills was on the outer with his MCC teammates and it deteriorated from there both in cricket and football.
These users liked the author Quolls2019 for the post:
Bumsniffers (Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:47 pm)


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Terry »

Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:42 pm
Bumsniffers wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:28 pm
Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 am There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.
The AFL adopted the position that it was possible, but not really certain until a few years back. With the Goodes thing, they evidently decided to embrace it a little more.

A lot of AFL folks are inclined to discount the work of historians with a known bent for other codes, like Roy Hay in particular.

However, I think Wills influence on the game is somewhat over-rated. Yes he wrote a letter advocating for a game of our own, and yes he was at the first meetings - but people at the meeting note that he put forth rugby rules which werent acceptable to the rest. The dude was literally one of 7 people involved, and he wasnt at follow up meetings where the rules were updated and rewritten in 1859 and 1860.

The entire Marngrook thing rests on the idea that Wills MAY have seen and MAY have played, but theres no concrete evidence he did either.
I agree on Wills influence being substantially less that credited, not often given credit is the local pub owner, James Bryant’s name is mentioned several times, he organised the 1859 game, supplied the accoutrements and the venue for the first and following meetings, was also regularly named as captain of several subsequent games.
Even in 1858 Wills was on the outer with his MCC teammates and it deteriorated from there both in cricket and football.


Oh really??? Well, all those grounds named after him will have to be changed. All those awards in his name will have to go as well. Gilty, Kelvin Shedley and all those other fumbling greats will have to stop talking about him like he's the 2nd coming of the messiah!!!!! And all those BS stories that he played marngrook with the local Aboriginals will have to be canned.

Or wait....................are you just trying to distance the fumbling game from this murdering racist? Is this a retrospective history trying to clear Australia's most racist, grubby, lying so called sport????? Yep, I'll go with that!! Typical fumbling cover-up 101. In this case 170 years after the event.


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Terry »

Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 10:42 pm
Bumsniffers wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:28 pm
Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:35 am There are very few current football researchers that believe “marngrook” had any influence on the establishment of the game that became Australian Rules.
The AFL, no matter how romantic the idea was, no longer believes or promotes that theory either.
It was established by several old British public school boys under the strong influence of a popular pub owner.
The AFL adopted the position that it was possible, but not really certain until a few years back. With the Goodes thing, they evidently decided to embrace it a little more.

A lot of AFL folks are inclined to discount the work of historians with a known bent for other codes, like Roy Hay in particular.

However, I think Wills influence on the game is somewhat over-rated. Yes he wrote a letter advocating for a game of our own, and yes he was at the first meetings - but people at the meeting note that he put forth rugby rules which werent acceptable to the rest. The dude was literally one of 7 people involved, and he wasnt at follow up meetings where the rules were updated and rewritten in 1859 and 1860.

The entire Marngrook thing rests on the idea that Wills MAY have seen and MAY have played, but theres no concrete evidence he did either.
I agree on Wills influence being substantially less that credited, not often given credit is the local pub owner, James Bryant’s name is mentioned several times, he organised the 1859 game, supplied the accoutrements and the venue for the first and following meetings, was also regularly named as captain of several subsequent games.
Even in 1858 Wills was on the outer with his MCC teammates and it deteriorated from there both in cricket and football.


Oh really??? Well, all those grounds named after him will have to be changed. All those awards in his name will have to go as well. Gilty, Kelvin Shedley and all those other fumbling greats will have to stop talking about him like he's the 2nd coming of the messiah!!!!! And all those BS stories that he played marngrook with the local Aboriginals will have to be canned.

Or wait....................are you just trying to distance the fumbling game from this murdering racist? Is this a retrospective history trying to clear Australia's most racist, grubby, lying so called sport????? Yep, I'll go with that!! Typical fumbling cover-up 101. In this case 170 years after the event.


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Pippen1994 »

Some scary race theories being posted at big footy forum by afl fans.


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Re: Marn grook...

Post by Bumsniffers »

Terry wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:55 am Is this a retrospective history trying to clear Australia's most racist, grubby, lying so called sport????? Yep, I'll go with that!! Typical fumbling cover-up 101. In this case 170 years after the event.
her article was found in a US newspaper that no Australian researcher was even aware of apparently.

And dont think its just the AFL that does this, we know so little about most of the frontier wars in Australia.


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