Toronto Wolfpack

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Quolls2019
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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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There are lies, damn lies and ratings.
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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:06 pm From 1998 to 2000 & 2009 to 2013 there was no relegation in super league, Expansion clubs failed, support decreased and the sport generally suffered. Of the clubs that have been relegated only expansion clubs no longer exist.
And some of the clubs relegated have won promotion afterwards.
London Broncos
Huddersfield
Salford
Castleford
Hull KR
Widnes
Leigh
Some relegated again, others not, but they all still exist.
What Expansion sides failed ? Welsh crusaders.
this was because they were not funded and had admin issues

Keeping the lower teams in the north of England with small fan bases,
over teams of potential especially in the south of france and what toronto has showed
is pathetic.


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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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Paris, crusaders and now Toronto have failed.

If the decision goes against Toronto it does not suggest that SL Is against expansion as they have recently approved Ottawa and New York.
I believe that they should be very cautious in approving a *new Toronto” that will probably start from a worse position than told Toronto, few players, more debt, certainly less goodwill in its home, Lee’s chance of getting a home tv deal and demanding conditions that another recent potential SL member,Toulouse, have not.
A return to SL, With a guarantee of no relegation and other conditions will end in failure.


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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:57 pm Paris, crusaders and now Toronto have failed.

If the decision goes against Toronto it does not suggest that SL Is against expansion as they have recently approved Ottawa and New York.
I believe that they should be very cautious in approving a *new Toronto” that will probably start from a worse position than told Toronto, few players, more debt, certainly less goodwill in its home, Less chance of getting a home tv deal and demanding conditions that another recent potential SL member,Toulouse, have not.
A return to SL, With a guarantee of no relegation and other conditions will end in failure.


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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:57 pm Paris, crusaders and now Toronto have failed.

If the decision goes against Toronto it does not suggest that SL Is against expansion as they have recently approved Ottawa and New York.
I believe that they should be very cautious in approving a *new Toronto” that will probably start from a worse position than told Toronto, few players, more debt, certainly less goodwill in its home, Lee’s chance of getting a home tv deal and demanding conditions that another recent potential SL member,Toulouse, have not.
A return to SL, With a guarantee of no relegation and other conditions will end in failure.
PARIS ?? never heard of a Paris team in the Super League

Toronto have not failed>> they pulled out of the season due to a WORLD CRISIS>
and were unable to play at Home and VISA issues. (which led to players not being paid)

the Welsh side was a shame, if they had more money would of went pretty good.


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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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Paris saint germaine 1996-1997

The Wolfpack were gone before Covid, that just put the flowers on their grave, the amount of creditor action from unpaid bills from last season is growing, and even the Wolfpack are saying they were mismanaged and were unsustainable.
I had doubts from the beginning And when they stopped paying for their own television coverage it was only a matter of time.
I still can’t Understand the SBW Contract, if they thought the revenue generated from the interest he would create would be greater than the cost, they were wrong...generated far more press in Australia than Canada. A desperate move?
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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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Quolls2019 wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:47 pm Paris saint germaine 1996-1997

The Wolfpack were gone before Covid, that just put the flowers on their grave, the amount of creditor action from unpaid bills from last season is growing, and even the Wolfpack are saying they were mismanaged and were unsustainable.
I had doubts from the beginning And when they stopped paying for their own television coverage it was only a matter of time.
I still can’t Understand the SBW Contract, if they thought the revenue generated from the interest he would create would be greater than the cost, they were wrong...generated far more press in Australia than Canada. A desperate move?
wow you learn something everyday, i never new of this Paris Team,
did some research and looks like there 1st game was there only highlight with 18k attending before hitting finance troubles
and goodbye.


I still think Wolfpack can recover, we all new it was going to lose millions in the first few years.

just needs to be able to play home games and get a tv deal in place to be a somewhat successful.

Judgement Day is near.


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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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There are lies, damn lies and ratings.
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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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Yorkshire Evening Post

Peter Smith’s Inside Rugby League - Time looming for Super League and Toronto Wolfpack to face the music
LATER THIS week Super League clubs will decide whether to readmit Toronto Wolfpack to the competition for 2021

In a year of tricky decisions, this is one of the toughest and potentially most significant.
More than just the future of one club is at stake; what is on the line is whether rugby league can - or even wants to - break out of its traditional boundaries and make an impact on an international scale.

To recap, Toronto - who entered the professional game in 2017 - were promoted to Betfred Super League on merit last year, having topped the Championship table and gone on to win the Grand Final.
Before coronavirus shut down the competition in March, they had lost six successive league games and were bottom of the table, though their final fixture was a Coral Challenge Cup win at Huddersfield Giants. All of their games had been played away from home.

Toronto do not receive a cut of Super League’s money from Sky TV and so rely (or relied) heavily on owner David Argyle. Unfortunately, the financial crisis caused by coronavirus hit both him and the club particularly hard and, in July, Wolfpack announced they were withdrawing from this year’s Super League and Challenge Cup competitions.

It emerged salaries of players and staff had gone unpaid and, over the past couple of months, many of Wolfpack’s biggest names, including marquee signing Sonny Bill Williams, have moved on, either on loan or permanent deals. Even before lockdown, it was obvious some poor decisions had been made by the Canadian club.

Rather than building a deep playing group to cope with an arduous 29-game - as it was due to be - league campaign, they spent big on certain players and assembled only a 23-man squad, which was never going to be enough.

As early as round two, coach Brian McDermott was unable to name a full 21-man initial squad. While Williams was worth the vast sum spent on him in publicity terms, performance-wise he fell well short of what was expected and needed from the competition’s highest-earner.

To have any credibility, there are two things a professional sports team must do, whatever the circumstances - pay their wages and fulfil fixtures.

Toronto have failed this year on both counts. Even in exceptional times, that reflects badly on both them and the competition.

However, potential new owners have now stepped forward with a commitment to ensure all players are paid in full for 2020, if Wolfpack are readmitted to Super League next year.

Documents outlining Wolfpack’s future viability have been distributed to Super League clubs and a board meeting on Friday is expected to decide their fate.

At the moment, it appears Wolfpack’s rivals are split over whether they should be readmitted to the top division in 2021. Clearly, doing so would be a gamble, but Super League has a lot to gain.

Wolfpack - and in particular their coup in signing dual-code World Cup winner Williams - attracted global headlines and massive interest at the start of this season. Last year, in the second tier, Toronto’s average home crowd for league matches was 6,988. That’s better than four Super League clubs managed and all of those near-7,000 are new to the sport.


Does rugby league really want to turn its back on those new fans, as well as the value Wolfpack add to the competition in terms of publicity?

The sport’s TV deal is coming up for renegotiation and there’s no doubt it will be worth more with a Canadian club on the fixture list.

North America is a huge sports market and, having established the tiniest toe hold, rugby league may well consider it a backwards move to let go.

Toronto have created an event atmosphere and maybe most of their supporters would stick with them if they dropped into a lower division, but they would be a far harder sell to new owners.

Allowing Toronto to drop out this year and simply pick up in 2021 from where they left off is not ideal for Super League and would cause a certain amount of resentment, but the alternative scenario is a bleaker one for


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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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From the wolf pack website
HearUsHowl
22/09/2020 by admin

Toronto Wolfpack are expecting a decision later this week from the Super League and its member clubs around a proposed take-over of the club by the Wolf Grooming investment group. If approved this would mean the Wolfpack re-enter Super League for the 2021 season.

Among those throwing their support behind the club and new ownership group in recent days have been Wolfpack Captain Josh McCrone (read his open letter here), the GMB players union (read full story) and Toronto Mayor John Tory (read letter here). Many more are now expected to follow as we enter a crucial few days for the future of the Wolfpack.

Fans can also play their part by coming together on social media and showcasing the fantastic support the Wolfpack enjoy in Canada, the UK and around the world.

To get involved simply post your messages, photos and videos of support on the posts below using the Hashtag #HearUsHowl.

Links here
https://www.torontowolfpack.com/hearushowl/


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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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Something little old and a Little new. A bit of a read..but worthwhile


JUL 23, 2020 AT 8:16 AM
Wolf-hunt: How Toronto went from bold dream to bad failure
BY JOHN DAVIDSON

"WINNING STARTS in the front office" - so said legendary coach Jack Gibson.
Gibson might have been dead for more than a decade but his sayings, methods and beliefs are still just as relevant in rugby league today.
It's a shame Toronto Wolfpack never took notice of Gibson's wisdom.
Toronto has been an interesting and eye-catching experiment in expansion, a bright spark that has promised a lot and has undoubted huge potential -  but has been badly managed and now appears close to complete implosion. The myth, hype and hope that has surrounded the Wolfpack -  and continue to - has added more fuel to the overflowing fire.
The doubts now over Toronto's survival and its possible demise are also inextricably linked to rugby league's continual failure to expand successfully and - simultaneously - its inability to learn from its own mistakes. 
This never-ending cycle of boom-bust ventures, which seems part of its DNA, from Paris, Gateshead, Perth Reds, Adelaide Rams, Gloucester, Oxford and Crusaders, remains today with no lessons learnt, and no improvement for the next time an ambitious expansion project is launched. 
If you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it and this sport never fails to shoot itself in the foot. It's Groundhog Day without the laughs or Bill Murray.
But back to the Wolfpack.
When the prospect of a new club in Canada emerged in 2014 and then gained traction in 2016, there was amazement and skepticism. A Canadian side playing in the RFL structure of competitions? Surely not.
But to Toronto's credit, thanks to the vision of founder Eric Perez, it happened and they convinced the RFL and the clubs to let them into League 1. The catch? The Wolfpack would not take any central distribution money from the RFL, and they would have to pay all the costs for visiting teams to fly and stay in Canada to play away games.
This is where the concept was seriously flawed.
There is some dispute whether Toronto agreed to never accept central distribution funding from the RFL or whether they agreed to not take it for a period of three to five years. 
Numerous sources I have spoken to suggest that the Wolfpack agreed never to take a share of the Sky money. This has proven to be a glaring mistake and one that Toronto has constantly tried to fix for several years - but to no avail.
A mythical broadcasting deal for North America, that could deliver Toronto millions, has not yet materialised and may never do in the current broadcasting climate. 
This has meant as the Wolfpack went up the divisions - from League 1 to the Championship to Super League - their costs have gone up and up as they spend more on players each year and still have to cover the costs of visiting teams. 
At the same time, they continue to receive no money apart from what they generate from their own home games, sponsorship and merchandise.
Owner David Argyle recently revealed he has spent $30 million (Canadian) - roughly £17.6 million - since the club was founded in 2017. Argyle has been reported as being both a billionaire and a multi-millionaire in different publications but his exact wealth is not known.


Regardless, that is a hell of a lot of money for a club that continues to lose millions every year with no sight of breaking even.
And you don’t get rich, or stay rich, by blowing through millions year after year with no actual end in sight.
Another issue with the original concept was the decision for the team to be based in England for most of the season. This would save them money on travel but has proved to be hugely problematic as Toronto could not provide UK work permits for its Kiwi and Australian players. 
This underlying issue reared its head in June last year when prop Darcy Lussick was not allowed into England after a run-in with immigration. The visa problem was always there, never resolved, and ultimately it exploded spectacularly in the club's face last week, as revealed by The Daily Mirror.
Meanwhile, on the field the Wolfpack were firing on all cylinders from day one.
In 2017 they breezed through League 1, grabbing promotion with 20 wins, one draw and one loss from just 22 games. Part-timers proved no competition for the hotshot full-timers in black.
That year they had a roster of 29 players and only four were North American - Canadian Quinn Ngawati and American Ryan Burroughs, Joe Eichner and Tom Dempsey - despite promising to field many local players. 
Eichner played just one game for the club before leaving, Dempsey three, while Burroughs and Ngawati both left at the end of 2018, but Ngawati recently rejoined the Wolfpack this year.
Coach Paul Rowley had said before the debut season had started: “Approximately half of the team will comprise experienced RFL players to provide the infield leadership and code skills with the balance of the squad to be drawn from a very large pool of talented and athletic North American rugby players, collegiate Canadian and American football players as well as former CFL and NFL players”.
A loose relationship with the truth would continue to pervade the club through its short history.
For example, Toronto continues to call itself the world's first transatlantic professional sports team. This is despite history showing that the World American Football League had a transatlantic competition with teams based in America, Canada and Europe way back in 1991.
Another example is its claims of driving junior development locally without actually backing that up.
The hype employed often never quite matched up with reality - another historic rugby league trait.
In 2016 the Wolfpack's director of rugby Brian Noble told The Daily Telegraph in Sydney that the club expected to sellout its home games at Lamport Stadium and would also sell 3000 'FuiFui MoiMoi' wigs.
"Fui’s exactly the type of player North Americans will love," he said. "I’m tipping we’ll sell about 3000 Fui wigs in the first couple of weeks he’s here.”
There is no evidence that the club ever sold that many wigs and the average attendance at Lamport, which has an official capacity of 9,600, was 6,992 in 2017.
No matter. 

The rugby league community was on board and so was the media. Coverage across the board was intense, the headlines continuous. The pom poms were out.
Of course, off the field the odd problem began to surface.
Forwards MoiMoi, David Taylor and Ryan Bailey were all sacked in January 2018 after an incident at a pre-season camp in Portugal. Taylor, a high-profile signing from the NRL, went without playing a single game.
Earlier that same month Bailey had escaped a ban after refusing to provide a sample for a drug test. Bailey was adamant the water he had drunk, been given to him by the doping control officer, could have been contaminated and he would therefore not provide a sample.
The prop, who was represented by the law firm Brandsmiths, got off but this would ultimately not be the end of the matter.
Change also came off the field in early 2018 with the exit of CEO and founder Perez and director Adam Fogerty. Fogerty is a close confidant of former RFL chief executive Nigel Wood and he fronted the club’s own TV documentary series. Perez later went to work for Bradford, a club Wood part-owns.
Both the departures of Perez and Fogerty were never officially announced by Toronto or properly explained. This appeared curious and I wrote about them at the time here. 
Apparently a new structure was created where general manager of commercial Scott Lidbury was in charge of all non-rugby matters. (Lidbury later left his role at the club, in January 2019, and declined to comment when contacted about the actual reasons for his departure).
However, on the field things rumbled on. 
Toronto entered the Championship in 2018 and again the results were impressive. They won 27 games, lost six and drew one. All seemingly appeared well, as wins were notched and the club continued to make high-profile long-term signings from Super League and the NRL, which garnered attention while also dramatically increased the wage bill. 
But in the Million Pound Game, disaster struck. Despite being huge favourites and at home, the Wolfpack lost 4-2 to London Broncos and failed to go up to Super League.
The writing was on the wall for coach Rowley before that playoff final. He was replaced by former Leeds Rhinos boss Brian McDermott. 

It was around that time that severe cracks started to appear in the Toronto facade. I covered these in a series of pieces over the space of a year for League Weekly newspaper.
In December 2018 the club faced court action over unpaid legal fees worth hundreds of thousands of pounds. A petition to wind up the Wolfpack’s UK company was made by Brandsmiths, who had represented Bailey. It is understood after starting the legal action Brandsmiths were eventually paid what they were owed.
This was just the beginning.
That same month Toronto paid its players late. It claimed it was just a short-term issue in a story on the BBC in January 2019. 
Now we started to see a pattern emerging.
In February of 2019 I revealed that Salford Red Devils had launched legal action against Toronto Wolfpack to recoup £20,000 it was owed from the transfer of its fullback Gareth O’Brien. It is understood Toronto eventually coughed up the dough.
Before that, in August 2018, Wakefield owner Michael Carter had gone public on Twitter in his battle to recoup the money his club was owed for selling winger Mason Caton-Brown to Toronto.
Wakefield would not be the last club to chase the Canadian outfit for money they were owed and hadn't been paid on time. Warrington had to do the same over Joe Westerman, as did Castleford over Gadwin Springer, according to several sources.
I understand Sheffield Eagles also had to threaten legal action to be paid a bill for travel when they played in Canada.
Then in June 2019 the visa problem burst to the surface with the Lussick incident.
It was a warning sign of things to come.
I wrote extensively about the problems that were emerging and what the future may hold for Toronto. You can read it here. 
At that point former Toronto player and welfare manager Reni Maitua actually tweeted: “Three years they’ve had to sort this out with immigration! What a joke. 
"Good luck signing overseas players in the future… You think overseas players will mov to the other side of the world, some with families to risk being deported for not having a visa?
“I loved my short time with the club its management is poor #Facts.”
Unfortunately the problem was never resolved despite Maitua’s warning.
The next month the Wolfpack’s UK general manager Martin Vickers admitted on TV programme Rugby League BackChat that he couldn’t rule out the club facing immigration issues in the future.

This was also around the time that the club’s announcement earlier that it had bought a minority stake in League 1 London Skolars worth around £100,000 fell apart.
 The PR statement at the time called it a “major boost to the sport of rugby league”, and it even received prime-time coverage in The Guardian. 
But Skolars never actually received any money. 
The club's majority shareholder, Hector McNeil, later told League Weekly months later: “No money has been received from Toronto Wolfpack. There is a written agreement and the terms have been breached by that but I trust David Argyle to come through.
“We can't be patient forever though and are disappointed not to have Toronto’s investment as yet. We really needed it mid-season last year as was promised and I think we would have gone up.”
It was more smoke and mirrors.
McNeil later walked away from the Skolars, and when asked by Steve Mascord in April this year if the collapse of the mooted deal with Toronto was a significant event in his decision, admitted: “I think that sort of speeded it up because obviously we did the agreement with David (Argyle) and, you know … I do think that he did it with the best of intentions and I think always in the back of his head he wants to honour the agreement. 
“There’s a signed contract, right? So in a way, Skolars could go the legal route and try and get that money from him but I don’t think that’s the right thing to do.”
Then in August the Wolfpack were hit with a lawsuit in Canada from television company iLink Media Group. It claimed the club owed it more than £180,000 from broadcasting Toronto games in 2018.
In September it was revealed that kit supplier ISC were also owed money by the club and the players had their wages paid late for the month of August.
The financial situation continued to worse in 2019, despite the club dominating the Championship and losing just one game out of 29.
A spot in Super League was secured with a convincing 24-6 win over Featherstone Rovers on home soil.
There were doubts over whether Super League would let Toronto into the top flight, but ultimately their promotion was rubber-stamped.
The Wolfpack then managed a major coup with the impressive signing of cross code stat Sonny Bill Williams in November last year.
The capture of the All Black and former NRL back-rower rightly received global press and acclaim. Williams was snared on a massive, mouth-watering two-year deal reportedly worth £2.5 million a season.

The Wolfpack would enter Super League with a tremendous bang. Outwardly, everything seemed good.
Behind the scenes though, the façade was crumbling.
Toronto started the season with just 22 players available. The salary cap was maxed out with players on ‘overs’ (more money than they could get elsewhere), so they were forced to leave Chase Stanley in Australia and unregistered so they didn’t go over their cap.
McDermott publicly advocated for salary cap relief from the RFL, despite many experienced figures in the sport criticising the club for signing players on bad deals, while they later brought in Tony Gigot as an amateur ‘triallist’, exploiting a loophole.
They were then smashed in their first six Super League fixtures, failing to win a single game.
They were beaten 28-10 by Castleford on their debut, defeated 24-16 by Salford, dominated 32-10 by Wigan, edged 32-22 by Warrington, thrashed 32-0 by St Helens and then whooped 66-12 by Leeds. The performances got worse and worse as they sat slumped at the bottom of the ladder.
Toronto’s only saving grace came on March 11 in the Challenge Cup when they ended their 2020 drought by defeating Huddersfield 18-0.
Then Covid-19 hit and the season was mothballed.
Now, with the events of the past few weeks, the Wolfpack may not play another game ever again.
Who is to blame for all this? That is not so clear.
It is wrong to blame only the global pandemic for all of these issues and for Toronto pulling out of Super League in 2020. The financial problems have been exacerbated by the current climate, undoubtedly, but they were also there long before anyone had heard of the Coronavirus.
Some of the claims from creditors who are still owed money by the club have not even come to light yet. 
I know of at least two companies - and I suspect there are more - who allege the Wolfpack have also not paid them for work they have completed for the club. They are scared to go public for fear of retribution, and are considering legal action.
Toronto’s questionable business practices have become something of urban legend.
There are also allegations that employees of the club in the front office in Canada are also owed money, along with some ex-players.
A current Toronto player told me last week: “They didn’t pay the young staff in the office…. Everyone leaves because they don’t get paid or they just see what they’ve all agreed to and go 'shit what’s going on here?' It’s madness.
“Over in Canada they try their hardest. There’s some really good people working for the club but there’s only about four or five of them. But they’ve never had anything to do with rugby league before. 
“It’s so understaffed. I feel like they need some ex-rugby league people in there working.
“I can’t see this club being there in a couple of years unless someone wants to come and invest in it. I don’t know who would want to invest in it at the moment. 
“They complain about the TV money, but at the end of the day they signed it. So once you sign something, well…
“Signing Sonny hurt them [as well]. I’m not taking anything away from Sonny, he can only take what he’s been offered, but he got paid a lot of money.
“I heard at the start that Argyle put in £10 million or £12 million that was gone in a year. They’ve obviously just had a lend of him. 
“I think Argyle’s had great intentions but he’s just been robbed blind and now he’s in over the top. I think he had a pretty good opportunity last year to sell the club to the people who own the Maple Leafs and the Raptors but who’s going to buy a sports team in this environment? No one.”
This account has been backed up by several other sources and is a sobering tale of mismanagement and negligence.
Again, it comes back to the fact the warning signs have been there some time. The flaws were there at the start. But no one acted or appeared to notice.
The silence around them has been deafening. The situation has not been helped by a fawning, cowering media. It has not been helped by inactive, idle governing bodies.
If rugby league is to successful expand in North America where is the detailed strategy? Where is the support? Where is the long-term vision? It has been found badly wanting.
The RFL’s Canadian expansion was outsourced to one wealthy man, David Argyle, to do as he saw fit, burning through more than £17 million for which he now has nothing to show. Both sides are culpable for this.
The events of the past few week have been a PR disaster, one that continues to gather pace. Businesses have been affected, the mental health of players and staff impacted, a broadcaster put out, the image of a sport tarnished again.
The tragic case of the Toronto Wolfpack leaves us with many questions unanswered as to why this was allowed to happen and what can be done to prevent a repeat.
However, this is rugby league.
As usual, spin and cheerleading reigns. Truth and transparency are rare.
For once, reality and facts should not glossed over or ignored. I am, for one, sick of the scandal and denialism.

SEP 21, 2020 AT 1:26 AM
The case for keeping Toronto Wolfpack out
BY JOHN DAVIDSON


A CASTLE made of sand. That sums up Toronto Wolfpack in five words.
A club with little foundations, no structure and one that has been badly run from day one.
Here’s my take on why the Toronto Wolfpack should not be allowed back into Super League in 2021.
From the beginning the Canadian club has been built on myths and gross exaggeration. They said they would have sellout crowds in season one – they didn’t. They said they would sell thousands of Fui Fui Moi Moi masks in their first year – they didn’t. They said they didn’t want any Sky money, and would land their own lucrative North American TV deal – they haven’t.
There has been too much talk, too much bluster, too many lies to keep track of.
The narrative at the moment is that it is all David Argyle’s fault, that everything was fine before Covid-10 hit – that is plain wrong.
Yes, Argyle has to take a huge chunk of the blame, but its not all his fault. He didn’t make every decision and wasn’t out there signing the players. He wasn't running the club day-to-day. He wasn’t the one offending other people with his public comments.

Toronto have made mistake after mistake after mistake. Ask iLink Media Group, ask Brandsmiths, ask Salford Red Devils. Their salary cap management has been poor, how they've treated some of their players, Ryan Brierley for example, was terrible and how they dealt with the other clubs such as Sheffield, Castleford, Warrington, Wakefield and Skolars was dire.
Their business has been shoddily run, forcing creditors to start lawsuits or go public in a bid to be paid what they are legitimately owed. There's been a lot of smoke and mirrors, with departures like that of Eric Perez and Adam Foggerty never properly explained. There remains more allegations under the surface, of former players owed money and staff in Canada owed wages, and this was all before anyone had heard of Coronavirus.
Look at the London Skolars, for example, why would you publicly announce that you are buying part of the club, and then never come through with the cash? It makes no sense, but it has hurt that club. You just can’t go round and treat people like that and expect no reaction.
Toronto have blown £18 million in three and half years, a figure that’s actually much higher when you include all the debts they owe and haven’t paid. 
They were going to lose millions this year before Covid-19 struck. Their business model just simply doesn’t work. Maybe it never will.
The Wolfpack’s withdrawal from Super League in July has caused a huge amount of strain and embarrassment on the competition. So has the shocking turn of events that has seen players and staff not paid for four months. It’s a PR nightmare and makes the sport look even more amateur than it is.
How do we Carlo LiVolsi is a white knight, just because he has a few quid? He is a friend of Argyle’s, is he really just another Argyle-style owner? Proper due diligence and research needs to be done to determine if he really is legitimate and trustworthy, that this whole sorry episode wouldn’t be repeated next year or in 2021. 
And generally the RFL’s record on due diligence is about as successful as the Titanic’s maiden voyage.
Breaking into North America is massively complex. It took football decades and countless cash. Rugby union has tried for many years, and spent many millions, and had mixed success. How can little ol’ rugby league, with barely a pot to piss in, actually crack it? And with its dubious leadership at the top? And with our shocking track record of 100 years of expansion.
They’re fighting a losing battle. Dreaming is one thing, but being deluded is another.
It remains to be seen if Trans-Atlantic sport is something that can actually work in the long run. If it did, wouldn’t the NFL and NBA, two leagues with huge resources, massive profiles and successful administrators, have done it? Yes.
With the financial damage caused by Covid-19, this is not the time for expensive expansion and risky ploys. This is a gamble took big to take right now. There should be harsh sanctions on Toronto, and that includes dropping them back to the Championship.


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Quolls2019
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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

Post by Quolls2019 »

Brian Carney: Toronto Wolfpack deserve a fair hearing from Super League clubs

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/ ... ague-clubs


THOMPSON URGES SUPER LEAGUE TO GRASP TORONTO OPPORTUNITY

https://www.therhinos.co.uk/video/thomp ... portunity/

Brad Singleton calls on Super League clubs not to give up on Toronto Wolfpack

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/br ... -wolfpack/

Peter Smith’s Inside Rugby League - Time looming for Super League and Toronto Wolfpack to face the music

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/ ... ic-2979846

From a Wolfpack blog..imho the most accurate assessment:
“Initially Perez sold them the dream of being able to expand to North America without it costing them anything. This is why Toronto were admitted. If Perez had come along at that time and asked to join but with no promise of being self-funded I doubt he would have been given the time of day.
That is why the situation now re Toronto is a completely different proposition. It is now one of yes you can have expansion but its going to cost you. With the best will in the world if its not financially viable then it doesn't make sense to do it, not at this precise moment in time in the middle of an unprecedented situation which will undoubtedly put a lot of clubs under financial pressure. To burden them with more for another pipedream would be pretty reckless in my view.”


Bodene Thompson pleads case of Toronto return
 MATTHEW SHAW  23/09/2020

https://www.totalrl.com/bodene-thompson ... to-return/

Noble fears for the game if Toronto are denied re-entry

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/s ... d-re-entry


Carney: Toronto have been prejudged by Super League clubs

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/s ... ague-clubs


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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

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Can Ottawa Learn From Toronto’s Mistakes?

http://www.leaguefreak.com/can-ottawa-l ... kes-46880/

Have to say that I am disliking the “ACES” moniker the more I see it....


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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

Post by Quolls2019 »

Love Rugby League
23/9/20
Off The Record Rugby Rumour

Toronto decision
Opinion is still split on the Toronto decision facing Super League clubs, with some feeling that there still hasn’t been enough evidence of a robust business plan or details on how the proposed new ownership can finance the Wolfpack moving forward.
Some are worried of the David Argyle situation repeating itself and how that could impact the competition again.


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Re: Toronto Wolfpack

Post by leeroy*NRL* »

If Toronto do not get granted permission to renter Super League in 2021
Which with this Virus and how England are going puts everything in doubt for resumption and delays.

the Wolfpack would surely just revert back to the Championship.


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