Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

[NRL&NFLweLaughATafl]

If it is good enough for Perth and Adelaide to get new expensive AFL venues.
Why is not good enough for Sydney. Which would get used by 4 football codes instead on 1 football code.

[Terry]

Ok, as usual I will have to be the voice of reason and objectivity on this site.

Oh please, spare us.

There is a very strong case for a rebuild at ANZ. Since the refit after the Olympics RL/RU/soccer have had 64 games with attendances over 65,000 at the ground.

It has also hosted multiple NRL clubs, RU and soccer internationals as well as concerts etc. The current seating arrangements for the rectangular codes/concerts is poor and needs fixing. There will be an upgrade of facilities around the ground as well as light rail from Parramatta and Strathfield going directly to it in the near future. The business case is sound and Sydney needs a rectangular international standard stadium like this.

The numbers simply don't stack up no matter how you try and spin it in favour of your beloved RL. There was no business case that is sound, otherwise the government would have released its cost benefit analysis. Meanwhile, consider the following from Business Insider Australia:

The NSW government announced plans last week to demolish the 18-year-old Sydney Olympic Stadium at Homebush, and Sydney Football Stadium at Moore Park, which opened in 1988 during Australia’s bicentenary. They will be rebuilt at a cost of $2 billion.

At a reduced size of 75,000 seats at Homebush, and the same size, 45,000, next to the SCG, that works out at just under $17,000 a seat.

Add the new 30,000-seat Parramatta stadium for $300 million and the total cost is $2.3 billion.

That figure is more than twice the amount allocated towards support for private sector social and affordable housing projects.

The total cost has already blown out by $700 million in 18 months, up nearly 50% on the $1.6 billion price tag when then-premier Mike Baird first floated the idea and put $600 million aside for it.

But you can bet the two things taxpayers won’t see from NSW premier Gladys Berejiklian and sports minister Stuart Ayers as a result of this announcement are the business case and cost benefit analysis.

Even the people this is supposed to be for are astonished and it would seem ungrateful.

The Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils (WSROC) resorted to sarcasm saying it wanted to “congratulate the NSW Government on making the state so prosperous it can afford to splurge $2 billion knocking down perfectly useable stadiums”.

WSROC President Cr Stephen Bali said it “makes an absolute mockery of real community needs. It implies that major events are more important to the Government than health, schools and transport.”

Arts v sport

Meanwhile, just across the grass from Parliament House is the Art Gallery of New South Wales, which released its annual audience figures showing growth of nearly 24% to just under 1.6 million visitors in 2016-17.

The gallery wants to double its size in a $450 million expansion known as the Sydney Modern Project. The Berejiklian government has offered $244 million towards the idea.

Of course the relocation of the Powerhouse Museum to Western Sydney is another pet government project awaiting a business case and funds.

But to put those art gallery figures in perspective, last year the combined total crowd at ANZ Stadium was around 1.04 million. In July, The Daily Telegraph reported that “redevelopment of ANZ Stadium has blown out from its original price tag of $750 million to at least $1.1 billion” and could be as high as $1.7 billion.

The figure quoted by the government now is $1.25 billion. So in the 18 months since Baird first proposed the ANZ Stadium rebuild, the cost has already increased by roughly the same amount as the entire Art Gallery project.

Around 200,000 people pay to see the Archibald Prize-annually, so when it comes to tourism, why is the government’s priority football and not the arts? Instead the gallery is relying on private philanthropy to get the job done.


While there will be arguments about the oval configuration of Sydney Olympic keeping away fans, it’s clear from looking at the numbers that when the game is good enough, the crowds are are happy to be there.

When the Socceroos played their do-or-die World Cup qualifier against Honduras earlier this month, 77,060 people turned up. That number was beaten by the NRL grand final with a crowd of 79,722. In August, 54,846 long-suffering Wallabies fans turned up to watch up to watch the side lose by 20 points to the All Blacks, although that was the lowest ever for a match against the Kiwis at the venue.

In between, the crowds range from about 6,000 – less than 10% of the stadium’s capacity, to 21,500 – around of quarter of its capacity – for NRL games.

That suggests it’s not the venue that’s the problem, but the product.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the- ... ms-2017-11

The decision to rebuild Alliance on the other hand is idiotic. It's 3 tenants average around 15k per game. It won't attract international sports or events - that is why they are rebuilding ANZ. They should spend the smallest amount of money needed for it's supposed deficiencies and no more.

Wow, finally that voice of reason and objectivity you harp on about endlessly. I however prefer the following analysis when it comes to this subject matter.

Falling crowds

NRL and rugby union crowds are in a slump.

NRL CEO Todd Greenberg may argue that this will bring back crowds, but that leaves just three venues to do a lot of the heavy lifting.

The Daily Telegraph’s sports editor-at-large, Phil Rothfield, has been a loud and vocal critic of the code for what it costs to go to games.

In a column earlier this year, Rothfield said the reason NRL crowds have fallen 10% in the last five years is because the league had priced people out of “a working class game”. He thinks the government’s decision spells the end for suburban footy grounds such as Manly’s Brookvale Oval which has been in urgent need of upgrades for several years.

It will be interesting to see what ticket prices are in $2.3 billion worth of stadia.

While there will be arguments about the oval configuration of Sydney Olympic keeping away fans, it’s clear from looking at the numbers that when the game is good enough, the crowds are are happy to be there.

When the Socceroos played their do-or-die World Cup qualifier against Honduras earlier this month, 77,060 people turned up. That number was beaten by the NRL grand final with a crowd of 79,722. In August, 54,846 long-suffering Wallabies fans turned up to watch up to watch the side lose by 20 points to the All Blacks, although that was the lowest ever for a match against the Kiwis at the venue.

In between, the crowds range from about 6,000 – less than 10% of the stadium’s capacity, to 21,500 – around of quarter of its capacity – for NRL games.

That suggests it’s not the venue that’s the problem, but the product.

Back in September, the NRL had the two lowest attendances for finals football in six years, despite the fact that they tried to lure fans with free transport, discount tickets and food offers.

And while just 15,408 went to a finals game at Allianz Stadium – a third of the capacity of the $705 million new stadium – next door at the SCG, a sold-out record crowd of 46,323 watched AFL.

Crowds at Allianz, home ground of the Roosters, ranged between 7,000 and 16,000 this season.

The average crowd sits at just over a third of the stadium’s capacity.

The slide in NRL crowds is modest compared to rugby. In just two years, the average crowd at a Waratahs games has fallen by a third. In 2015, it was 22,463 per match. This season, it plummeted to 14,500. That means it would take more than 3 games combined to fill the $750 million stadium rebuild planned.

At one game at Allianz against the Jaguares, just 10,992 people turned up on a Saturday night – after 32,987 watched the Swans v Gold Coast at the SCG.

The best crowd the venue had all year was 41,546 for the A-League grand final between Sydney and Melbourne Victory back in May.

But this isn’t just a Sydney phenomenon. Overall, crowds numbers are down nationally.

Only the A-League is defying the crowd trend for sport on rectangular fields.

So just who is the government doing this for? They say fans, but in that case it would be cheaper to buy every fan a $1000 large screen TV since that’s where you’ll find most of them enjoying the sport.

But the next time the Berejiklian government says it hasn’t got the money for a project, keep the stadium announcement in mind.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the- ... ms-2017-11

Well my friend unfortunately for you your view on this issue is irrelevant due to your raging AFL bias. To run a successful site you need intelligence, objectivity and fairness. Fail. Fail. Fail. I would encourage you to have some time of quiet introspection and self analysis - it will do you the world of good my friend.

[SportCapital]

If it is good enough for Perth and Adelaide to get new expensive AFL venues.
Why is not good enough for Sydney. Which would get used by 4 football codes instead on 1 football code.

One word: Crowds

Three more words: Lack there of....................

[Beaussie]

Ok, as usual I will have to be the voice of reason and objectivity on this site.

Oh please, spare us.

There is a very strong case for a rebuild at ANZ. Since the refit after the Olympics RL/RU/soccer have had 64 games with attendances over 65,000 at the ground.

It has also hosted multiple NRL clubs, RU and soccer internationals as well as concerts etc. The current seating arrangements for the rectangular codes/concerts is poor and needs fixing. There will be an upgrade of facilities around the ground as well as light rail from Parramatta and Strathfield going directly to it in the near future. The business case is sound and Sydney needs a rectangular international standard stadium like this.

The numbers simply don't stack up no matter how you try and spin it in favour of your beloved RL. There was no business case that is sound, otherwise the government would have released its cost benefit analysis. Meanwhile, consider the following from Business Insider Australia:

The NSW government announced plans last week to demolish the 18-year-old Sydney Olympic Stadium at Homebush, and Sydney Football Stadium at Moore Park, which opened in 1988 during Australia’s bicentenary. They will be rebuilt at a cost of $2 billion.

At a reduced size of 75,000 seats at Homebush, and the same size, 45,000, next to the SCG, that works out at just under $17,000 a seat.

Add the new 30,000-seat Parramatta stadium for $300 million and the total cost is $2.3 billion.

That figure is more than twice the amount allocated towards support for private sector social and affordable housing projects.

The total cost has already blown out by $700 million in 18 months, up nearly 50% on the $1.6 billion price tag when then-premier Mike Baird first floated the idea and put $600 million aside for it.

But you can bet the two things taxpayers won’t see from NSW premier Gladys Berejiklian and sports minister Stuart Ayers as a result of this announcement are the business case and cost benefit analysis.

Even the people this is supposed to be for are astonished and it would seem ungrateful.

The Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils (WSROC) resorted to sarcasm saying it wanted to “congratulate the NSW Government on making the state so prosperous it can afford to splurge $2 billion knocking down perfectly useable stadiums”.

WSROC President Cr Stephen Bali said it “makes an absolute mockery of real community needs. It implies that major events are more important to the Government than health, schools and transport.”

Arts v sport

Meanwhile, just across the grass from Parliament House is the Art Gallery of New South Wales, which released its annual audience figures showing growth of nearly 24% to just under 1.6 million visitors in 2016-17.

The gallery wants to double its size in a $450 million expansion known as the Sydney Modern Project. The Berejiklian government has offered $244 million towards the idea.

Of course the relocation of the Powerhouse Museum to Western Sydney is another pet government project awaiting a business case and funds.

But to put those art gallery figures in perspective, last year the combined total crowd at ANZ Stadium was around 1.04 million. In July, The Daily Telegraph reported that “redevelopment of ANZ Stadium has blown out from its original price tag of $750 million to at least $1.1 billion” and could be as high as $1.7 billion.

The figure quoted by the government now is $1.25 billion. So in the 18 months since Baird first proposed the ANZ Stadium rebuild, the cost has already increased by roughly the same amount as the entire Art Gallery project.

Around 200,000 people pay to see the Archibald Prize-annually, so when it comes to tourism, why is the government’s priority football and not the arts? Instead the gallery is relying on private philanthropy to get the job done.


While there will be arguments about the oval configuration of Sydney Olympic keeping away fans, it’s clear from looking at the numbers that when the game is good enough, the crowds are are happy to be there.

When the Socceroos played their do-or-die World Cup qualifier against Honduras earlier this month, 77,060 people turned up. That number was beaten by the NRL grand final with a crowd of 79,722. In August, 54,846 long-suffering Wallabies fans turned up to watch up to watch the side lose by 20 points to the All Blacks, although that was the lowest ever for a match against the Kiwis at the venue.

In between, the crowds range from about 6,000 – less than 10% of the stadium’s capacity, to 21,500 – around of quarter of its capacity – for NRL games.

That suggests it’s not the venue that’s the problem, but the product.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the- ... ms-2017-11

The decision to rebuild Alliance on the other hand is idiotic. It's 3 tenants average around 15k per game. It won't attract international sports or events - that is why they are rebuilding ANZ. They should spend the smallest amount of money needed for it's supposed deficiencies and no more.

Wow, finally that voice of reason and objectivity you harp on about endlessly. I however prefer the following analysis when it comes to this subject matter.

Falling crowds

NRL and rugby union crowds are in a slump.

NRL CEO Todd Greenberg may argue that this will bring back crowds, but that leaves just three venues to do a lot of the heavy lifting.

The Daily Telegraph’s sports editor-at-large, Phil Rothfield, has been a loud and vocal critic of the code for what it costs to go to games.

In a column earlier this year, Rothfield said the reason NRL crowds have fallen 10% in the last five years is because the league had priced people out of “a working class game”. He thinks the government’s decision spells the end for suburban footy grounds such as Manly’s Brookvale Oval which has been in urgent need of upgrades for several years.

It will be interesting to see what ticket prices are in $2.3 billion worth of stadia.

While there will be arguments about the oval configuration of Sydney Olympic keeping away fans, it’s clear from looking at the numbers that when the game is good enough, the crowds are are happy to be there.

When the Socceroos played their do-or-die World Cup qualifier against Honduras earlier this month, 77,060 people turned up. That number was beaten by the NRL grand final with a crowd of 79,722. In August, 54,846 long-suffering Wallabies fans turned up to watch up to watch the side lose by 20 points to the All Blacks, although that was the lowest ever for a match against the Kiwis at the venue.

In between, the crowds range from about 6,000 – less than 10% of the stadium’s capacity, to 21,500 – around of quarter of its capacity – for NRL games.

That suggests it’s not the venue that’s the problem, but the product.

Back in September, the NRL had the two lowest attendances for finals football in six years, despite the fact that they tried to lure fans with free transport, discount tickets and food offers.

And while just 15,408 went to a finals game at Allianz Stadium – a third of the capacity of the $705 million new stadium – next door at the SCG, a sold-out record crowd of 46,323 watched AFL.

Crowds at Allianz, home ground of the Roosters, ranged between 7,000 and 16,000 this season.

The average crowd sits at just over a third of the stadium’s capacity.

The slide in NRL crowds is modest compared to rugby. In just two years, the average crowd at a Waratahs games has fallen by a third. In 2015, it was 22,463 per match. This season, it plummeted to 14,500. That means it would take more than 3 games combined to fill the $750 million stadium rebuild planned.

At one game at Allianz against the Jaguares, just 10,992 people turned up on a Saturday night – after 32,987 watched the Swans v Gold Coast at the SCG.

The best crowd the venue had all year was 41,546 for the A-League grand final between Sydney and Melbourne Victory back in May.

But this isn’t just a Sydney phenomenon. Overall, crowds numbers are down nationally.

Only the A-League is defying the crowd trend for sport on rectangular fields.

So just who is the government doing this for? They say fans, but in that case it would be cheaper to buy every fan a $1000 large screen TV since that’s where you’ll find most of them enjoying the sport.

But the next time the Berejiklian government says it hasn’t got the money for a project, keep the stadium announcement in mind.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the- ... ms-2017-11

Well my friend unfortunately for you your view on this issue is irrelevant due to your raging AFL bias. To run a successful site you need intelligence, objectivity and fairness. Fail. Fail. Fail. I would encourage you to have some time of quiet introspection and self analysis - it will do you the world of good my friend.

Well done Terry. Totally avoided the independent analysis I provided and ignore the fact that the majority of NSW taxpayers (to which I am one), are totally opposed to this wasteful spending of taxpayer $$$ with no cost benefit analysis provided. Keep that head of yours firmly stuck in the sand.

[Terry]

Beatup: you are about as independent as a Yidddish farmer living on the West Bank lolololololololololololol. It's pointless having a serious conversation about this issue with raging AFL zealots like yourself and your mate the great Wookster. You poor buggers are hopelessly flawed as serious commentators. In any case I feel no malice toward you...... only deep empathy. Continue the good fight my friend and stay healthy.

[NlolRL]

Beatup: you are about as independent as a Yidddish farmer living on the West Bank lolololololololololololol. It's pointless having a serious conversation about this issue with raging AFL zealots like yourself and your mate the great Wookster. You poor buggers are hopelessly flawed as serious commentators. In any case I feel no malice toward you...... only deep empathy. Continue the good fight my friend and stay healthy.

are you for real? You're equally as bias, just from the RL side. Hypocrite

[Terry]

Beatup: you are about as independent as a Yidddish farmer living on the West Bank lolololololololololololol. It's pointless having a serious conversation about this issue with raging AFL zealots like yourself and your mate the great Wookster. You poor buggers are hopelessly flawed as serious commentators. In any case I feel no malice toward you...... only deep empathy. Continue the good fight my friend and stay healthy.

are you for real? You're equally as bias, just from the RL side. Hypocrite

Incorrect my friend. I don't own and moderate the site. Beatup and Wooksie do. If they want to be taken seriously they must step away from the zealotry but of course they won't the poor buggers. Wooksie gets hammered on all his other sites because of his bias but he is to stupid to get it lolololooolo.o.o.oollllllll. Poor bugger!!!

[Fred]

Too

[NlolRL]

Beatup: you are about as independent as a Yidddish farmer living on the West Bank lolololololololololololol. It's pointless having a serious conversation about this issue with raging AFL zealots like yourself and your mate the great Wookster. You poor buggers are hopelessly flawed as serious commentators. In any case I feel no malice toward you...... only deep empathy. Continue the good fight my friend and stay healthy.

are you for real? You're equally as bias, just from the RL side. Hypocrite

Incorrect my friend. I don't own and moderate the site. Beatup and Wooksie do. If they want to be taken seriously they must step away from the zealotry but of course they won't the poor buggers. Wooksie gets hammered on all his other sites because of his bias but he is to stupid to get it lolololooolo.o.o.oollllllll. Poor bugger!!!

what does owning the site have to do with anything? Every poster on this site has a bias, including you. In fact the Wookie is 10 times more balanced than you.

Oh and you told me you never visit LU. Yet you seem to know how Wookie is treated on other forums.

[Beaussie]

Started with just one signature on Saturday evening. 50,185 and counting have now signed the petition to the NSW Government.

The people of NSW are clearly not happy with this decision.

Stop NSW Government WASTING $2B Rebuilding SFS & Olympic Stadiums
Peter FitzSimons Australia



We, the undersigned, respectfully call on the Premier of NSW, Gladys Berejiklian, and the NSW Cabinet, to reconsider their decision to knock down two perfectly fine sports stadiums - the Olympic Stadium and Sydney Football Stadium - at a staggering cost of $2Billion, to replace them with new ones, at a time when there is ZERO public demand to replace either.

We are tired of taxpayer dollars being lavished on building facilities for Sports Big Business, while community sport withers on the vine for lack of facilities and resources.

We, the undersigned concerned citizens of NSW, believe our money could be better spent with the likes of 100 X $10 million projects being funded across the state, so towns, suburbs and regions could see a thousand fields, pools, courts and arenas bloom, doing something for the wider people of NSW and not merely the tiny percentage involved in elite sport.

We believe some of the money could be used to lower registration fees for kids playing a variety of sports, to remove the obstacles that prevent so many from participating.

This would still allow nearly a billion dollars left over to refurbish the current stadiums, and put much-needed money into other community resources, like schools, hospitals, theatres, galleries, homeless shelters and the like.

Again, we say, Premier Berejiklian, please reconsider.

Thank you,

The Concerned Citizens of NSW
This petition will be delivered to:
Premier Gladys Berejiklian

https://www.change.org/p/premier-bereji ... c-stadiums

[Beaussie]

Looks like this will be an election issue regarding government priorities.

On Wednesday, Opposition Leader Luke Foley indicated he would not support the stadiums being rebuilt, saying the money should be spent on "schools and hospitals".

"I will not allow this obscene amount of money to be spent on a couple of Sydney stadiums," Mr Foley said.

"When thousands of children in the region are being taught in demountables and thousands of people are waiting months for elective surgery it is a crime that this out of touch government has committed such a huge amount of money on a couple of Sydney stadiums."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/petition-call ... zxsle.html

[Fred]

Interesting. I can’t see why they can’t refigure anz if they want a rectangular ground. How often is anz used by the way. Went there once and quite enjoyed it. Collingwood v swans ... was a good crowd.

[post_hoc]

50,000 signatures? Population of NSW is 7.5 million, LOL come back when you get 4 million then we might have something.

[post_hoc]

btw Fitzsimmons is wrong on Parramatta pools as well, they are being moved, to a better location nearer public transport.

[phil]

Is there any strength in the rumour, that a proportion of this 2 billion bucks is going towards artists, who are going to paint faces and spectators on the seats.
So the stadium wil appear "full" even when no one turns up to watch an NRL game