Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

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Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Beaussie »

The taxpayers of NSW are very annoyed with this government decision it seems. Will the stadium rebuilds happen? Hmm, watch this space as they say.
Stadium replacement a monument to excess
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Goodness! There I was minding my own business, taking a little rest after penning a piece on how I just couldn't understand the virtues of the NSW government spending $2 billion of our money to knock down the Olympic Stadium and the SFS, to replace them with new ones – all when there is ZERO public demand to do either – when all hell broke loose. The phone started ringing. Texts started pinging. Twitter started zinging.

And all together they were singing: go harder, this is a DISGRACE!

Image
An artist's impression of what the new Allianz Stadium will look like. The stadium is built entirely on SCG Trust lands.

No joke, in 30 years in this game, I've never had a reaction like it. No-one, it seems, can get their head around the reasons. And when I did a Twitter poll, neutrally phrased, 89 per cent were against it, and just 11 per cent in favour.

Beyond the sheer waste, the staggering disbursement of largesse to answer a need that is not there – all while other under-resourced areas of the public domain are crying out for help – two particular themes from my piece seemed to resonate with the public.

Image
The new Western Sydney Stadium at Parramatta. Photo: Craig Willoughby

Firstly, as one reader put it, why the hell is it "one-way traffic between Sydney's professional sport and taxpayer largesse?"

As in, when these stadiums are primarily used by the Big Business Sport, putting on spectacles that generate BILLIONS of dollars in ticket sales, together with gaming and tv rights revenue, why are Johnny and Jenny Taxpayer constantly forking over ever more moolah from the public purse, with nothing coming from those businesses? Far from the government getting them to pitch in for the building their business infrastructure, we taxpayers are making them grants! How does that work?
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Secondly, if you are going to put that kind of money to sport, what about the grass-roots? How much good could a mere fraction of that money do, building sporting facilities around the state, funding sporting programs, training volunteers and all the rest? As the ABC's Brigid Glanville mused on Wendy Harmer's morning program on Thursday, if the government has that kind of money for sport, how much stronger would it be to go with the stadiums we have, and build 2000 $1 million sporting projects around the state? I would say, more realistically, why not do 100 x $10 million projects, giving every town basketball, tennis, netball facilities. Wouldn't that be more beneficial for the health and happiness of the population, while, surely three times as electorally popular? Think about it, Premier Berejiklian and Minister Ayres!

To most of the population, the decision to raze the two stadiums to build new ones seems like the Big End of Town looking after the Big End of Town, with absolutely nothing going to anyone else. They want it stopped, and so strong is the outcry, I think your government is facing a political nightmare on it. The whole thing has a strong whiff of Alan Jones about it, and as he would say, "I'll have more to say on this soon!"

And speaking of stadiums...

But no, I'm bloody well not done yet, for this week. For meantime, a good deal of angst also showed up about the case of Parramatta Stadium, whose primary use for a long time has also been for professional sports outfits, like the Eels and Wanderers, both large money-making concerns which, nevertheless, rarely managed to sell all of the seats they had. Nevertheless, as one reader noted, "it was decided we needed to knock that down to add 10,000 more seats. That way footballers could play in front of 15 or 20 thousand empty seats rather than five or 10 thousand empty seats – adds to the atmosphere I am sure. Of course we needed the extra seats now because in the last upgrade we removed 5000 seats."

But wait, there's more. For right beside the old Parramatta Stadium, there was the local swimming pool, heavily used by the people, including kids learning to swim and paddling pensioners, the well-heeled and the poor – a great community asset and ...

And are you way ahead of me? Can you see where this is going?

Yup, to uselessly expand the money-making stadium, at great cost to the taxpayers, they knocked down the pool that everyone was using, with no replacement! What is wrong with this picture?? And how long before the people rise against the madness?


Andrew Nimmo, NSW chapter president, of the Australian Institute of Architects on the NSW government's extraordinary decision to demolish the SFS and Olympic stadiums and replace them with new, but not bigger ones: "The Sydney Football Stadium is barely 30 years old, while the Olympic Stadium is less than 20 years old. When our major public buildings don't last 30 years, we have a real problem. To demolish, rather than to refurbish, seems like an extraordinary waste. These stadiums are buildings that should live for at least 50 to 100 years. We are doing something wrong as a society if we apply a throwaway mentality to assets that are still so relatively young." Stand by, sports fans.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/the-fitz-fi ... zwthe.html


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by AFLcrap1 »

Pisss off
there's multiple threads on this already
take your bullshit jealousy into them .


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Beaussie »

From what I could tell, you derailed and ruined the discussion and flow in the thread about the NRL GF possibly moving and stadium funding. Besides that, this thread is about the NSW people’s reaction to the government funding announcement. It seems public scrutiny of this matter annoys you.


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by pussycat »

Beaussie wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:56 am
From what I could tell, you derailed and ruined the discussion and flow in the thread about the NRL GF possibly moving and stadium funding. Besides that, this thread is about the NSW people’s reaction to the government funding announcement. It seems public scrutiny of this matter annoys you.
Stick with Fitzy , way to go Beau :thumbleft:


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by AFLcrap1 »

Beaussie wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:56 am
From what I could tell, you derailed and ruined the discussion and flow in the thread about the NRL GF possibly moving and stadium funding. Besides that, this thread is about the NSW people’s reaction to the government funding announcement. It seems public scrutiny of this matter annoys you.
Ok big mouth
How did I derail the thread .please show how .


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by leagueiscrap »

AFLcrap1 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:11 am
Pisss off
there's multiple threads on this already
take your bullshit jealousy into them .
The public don’t want the stadiums spazza

Not jealousy! Like you think :)))


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by SportCapital »

Fucking massive White Elephant.
Follow the money on this one.
They'll be vested interest somewhere. There always is.
How does grass roots programs benifit? Local sports clubs facilities benifit?
Who does this really benifit?

Please let me know if you are happy about your government spending this much of YOUR money.
And I guarantee the final figure will be closer to $4,000,000,000.00
Just look at that number for a minute.
Brings a tear to the eye.
Think of the possibilities.
That could be a $530 grab from your tax from every single person in NSW. Much higher from actual tax payers.
I hope it's worth it.


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Fred »

Given the complaints and moaning from grassroots clubs and even from nrl clubs for more money it is surprising. Especially given the nrl has not contributed any funds which is amazing. All congratulations to the nrl however in getting this done without having to contribute ... one of the good things the administration has done. I would also be surprised if costs don’t blow out along with completion dates.

I’ll also be interested in the articles that come out if they can’t reguarly attract crowds to at least three quarters fill it. Will have to wait and see I guess.


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by AFLcrap1 »

& the jealousy continues

Simple fact is no matter what the GOVT spend money on someone will complain .

It's hilarious how the fumblers have jumped on this ..yet where were you mob complaining about money wasted when the two Afl stadia had the millions spent on them ..
Fucking hypocrites as usual .


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by NlolRL »

AFLcrap1 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:35 pm
& the jealousy continues

Simple fact is no matter what the GOVT spend money on someone will complain .

It's hilarious how the fumblers have jumped on this ..yet where were you mob complaining about money wasted when the two Afl stadia had the millions spent on them ..
Fucking hypocrites as usual .
the story here isnt driven by AFL fans, its driven by a poll of the public where the vast majority are against the wasted spending



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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by AFLcrap1 »

Whooosh .
Another ....
Go read the previous thread on this .
You lot were ranting about spending money ...
Simple question was asked ..why were you not complaining when afl stadia in Syd had $$$ spent on them .


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by NlolRL »

AFLcrap1 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:52 pm
Whooosh .
Another ....
Go read the previous thread on this .
You lot were ranting about spending money ...
Simple question was asked ..why were you not complaining when afl stadia in Syd had $$$ spent on them .
whooooooooosh

I'm not even complaining about this spending, the NSW public who answered the poll are



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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Fred »

AFLcrap1 wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:35 pm
& the jealousy continues

Simple fact is no matter what the GOVT spend money on someone will complain .

It's hilarious how the fumblers have jumped on this ..yet where were you mob complaining about money wasted when the two Afl stadia had the millions spent on them ..
Fucking hypocrites as usual .

I think the difference is that 1. The afl usually commit funds. 2. The scan identified need and 3. There is at least the faciade of greater community benfit. In this instance I think a lot of people, including a lot of Sydney people, are questioning the need here given the stadiums are not that old. And it’s hard to see the grassroots benefits.

If you look at sprinfelid the afl and local council are pushing it as local council is seeing them being able to secure a new venue at reduced cost for them that benefits the broader community. They and the afl are lobbying the state government using this arguement and stating they can also get infrastructure (that the community is wanting) at a cheaper price.


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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Terry »

Ok, as usual I will have to be the voice of reason and objectivity on this site. There is a very strong case for a rebuild at ANZ. Since the refit after the Olympics RL/RU/soccer have had 64 games with attendances over 65,000 at the ground.

It has also hosted multiple NRL clubs, RU and soccer internationals as well as concerts etc. The current seating arrangements for the rectangular codes/concerts is poor and needs fixing. There will be an upgrade of facilities around the ground as well as light rail from Parramatta and Strathfield going directly to it in the near future. The business case is sound and Sydney needs a rectangular international standard stadium like this.

The decision to rebuild Alliance on the other hand is idiotic. It's 3 tenants average around 15k per game. It won't attract international sports or events - that is why they are rebuilding ANZ. They should spend the smallest amount of money needed for it's supposed deficiencies and no more.

And who is to blame for this fiasco???? Funnily enough it is two of our very own fumblers - little screaming, yelling Tony Shepherd of GWS infamy and now SCG Trust chairman and the former AFL development officer and now sports minister Stuart Ayres. The NRL have said ANZ was the priority so they're out of the firing line. I'm not sure what part, if any, the Waratahs and Sydney FC played in the decision so I can't comment on them.

The reason these two fumblers got together and came up with this idiotic decision is a mystery but they are the two dills that should be in the firing line. Pressure should be put on them to explain their decision. In any case if Luke Foley wins the next election he will do exactly as I have suggested.



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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Beaussie »

Terry wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:05 pm
Ok, as usual I will have to be the voice of reason and objectivity on this site.
Oh please, spare us. :roll:

Terry wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:05 pm
There is a very strong case for a rebuild at ANZ. Since the refit after the Olympics RL/RU/soccer have had 64 games with attendances over 65,000 at the ground.

It has also hosted multiple NRL clubs, RU and soccer internationals as well as concerts etc. The current seating arrangements for the rectangular codes/concerts is poor and needs fixing. There will be an upgrade of facilities around the ground as well as light rail from Parramatta and Strathfield going directly to it in the near future. The business case is sound and Sydney needs a rectangular international standard stadium like this.
The numbers simply don't stack up no matter how you try and spin it in favour of your beloved RL. There was no business case that is sound, otherwise the government would have released its cost benefit analysis. Meanwhile, consider the following from Business Insider Australia:

Business Insider Australia wrote:The NSW government announced plans last week to demolish the 18-year-old Sydney Olympic Stadium at Homebush, and Sydney Football Stadium at Moore Park, which opened in 1988 during Australia’s bicentenary. They will be rebuilt at a cost of $2 billion.

At a reduced size of 75,000 seats at Homebush, and the same size, 45,000, next to the SCG, that works out at just under $17,000 a seat.

Add the new 30,000-seat Parramatta stadium for $300 million and the total cost is $2.3 billion.

That figure is more than twice the amount allocated towards support for private sector social and affordable housing projects.

The total cost has already blown out by $700 million in 18 months, up nearly 50% on the $1.6 billion price tag when then-premier Mike Baird first floated the idea and put $600 million aside for it.

But you can bet the two things taxpayers won’t see from NSW premier Gladys Berejiklian and sports minister Stuart Ayers as a result of this announcement are the business case and cost benefit analysis.

Even the people this is supposed to be for are astonished and it would seem ungrateful.

The Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils (WSROC) resorted to sarcasm saying it wanted to “congratulate the NSW Government on making the state so prosperous it can afford to splurge $2 billion knocking down perfectly useable stadiums”.

WSROC President Cr Stephen Bali said it “makes an absolute mockery of real community needs. It implies that major events are more important to the Government than health, schools and transport.”

Arts v sport

Meanwhile, just across the grass from Parliament House is the Art Gallery of New South Wales, which released its annual audience figures showing growth of nearly 24% to just under 1.6 million visitors in 2016-17.

The gallery wants to double its size in a $450 million expansion known as the Sydney Modern Project. The Berejiklian government has offered $244 million towards the idea.

Of course the relocation of the Powerhouse Museum to Western Sydney is another pet government project awaiting a business case and funds.

But to put those art gallery figures in perspective, last year the combined total crowd at ANZ Stadium was around 1.04 million. In July, The Daily Telegraph reported that “redevelopment of ANZ Stadium has blown out from its original price tag of $750 million to at least $1.1 billion” and could be as high as $1.7 billion.

The figure quoted by the government now is $1.25 billion. So in the 18 months since Baird first proposed the ANZ Stadium rebuild, the cost has already increased by roughly the same amount as the entire Art Gallery project.

Around 200,000 people pay to see the Archibald Prize-annually, so when it comes to tourism, why is the government’s priority football and not the arts?
Instead the gallery is relying on private philanthropy to get the job done.


While there will be arguments about the oval configuration of Sydney Olympic keeping away fans, it’s clear from looking at the numbers that when the game is good enough, the crowds are are happy to be there.

When the Socceroos played their do-or-die World Cup qualifier against Honduras earlier this month, 77,060 people turned up. That number was beaten by the NRL grand final with a crowd of 79,722. In August, 54,846 long-suffering Wallabies fans turned up to watch up to watch the side lose by 20 points to the All Blacks, although that was the lowest ever for a match against the Kiwis at the venue.

In between, the crowds range from about 6,000 – less than 10% of the stadium’s capacity, to 21,500 – around of quarter of its capacity – for NRL games.

That suggests it’s not the venue that’s the problem, but the product.


https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the- ... ms-2017-11

Terry wrote:
Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:05 pm
The decision to rebuild Alliance on the other hand is idiotic. It's 3 tenants average around 15k per game. It won't attract international sports or events - that is why they are rebuilding ANZ. They should spend the smallest amount of money needed for it's supposed deficiencies and no more.
Wow, finally that voice of reason and objectivity you harp on about endlessly. I however prefer the following analysis when it comes to this subject matter.


Business Insider Australia wrote:Falling crowds

NRL and rugby union crowds are in a slump.

NRL CEO Todd Greenberg may argue that this will bring back crowds, but that leaves just three venues to do a lot of the heavy lifting.

The Daily Telegraph’s sports editor-at-large, Phil Rothfield, has been a loud and vocal critic of the code for what it costs to go to games.

In a column earlier this year, Rothfield said the reason NRL crowds have fallen 10% in the last five years is because the league had priced people out of “a working class game”. He thinks the government’s decision spells the end for suburban footy grounds such as Manly’s Brookvale Oval which has been in urgent need of upgrades for several years.

It will be interesting to see what ticket prices are in $2.3 billion worth of stadia.

While there will be arguments about the oval configuration of Sydney Olympic keeping away fans, it’s clear from looking at the numbers that when the game is good enough, the crowds are are happy to be there.

When the Socceroos played their do-or-die World Cup qualifier against Honduras earlier this month, 77,060 people turned up. That number was beaten by the NRL grand final with a crowd of 79,722. In August, 54,846 long-suffering Wallabies fans turned up to watch up to watch the side lose by 20 points to the All Blacks, although that was the lowest ever for a match against the Kiwis at the venue.

In between, the crowds range from about 6,000 – less than 10% of the stadium’s capacity, to 21,500 – around of quarter of its capacity – for NRL games.

That suggests it’s not the venue that’s the problem, but the product.

Back in September, the NRL had the two lowest attendances for finals football in six years, despite the fact that they tried to lure fans with free transport, discount tickets and food offers.

And while just 15,408 went to a finals game at Allianz Stadium – a third of the capacity of the $705 million new stadium – next door at the SCG, a sold-out record crowd of 46,323 watched AFL.


Crowds at Allianz, home ground of the Roosters, ranged between 7,000 and 16,000 this season.

The average crowd sits at just over a third of the stadium’s capacity.

The slide in NRL crowds is modest compared to rugby. In just two years, the average crowd at a Waratahs games has fallen by a third. In 2015, it was 22,463 per match. This season, it plummeted to 14,500. That means it would take more than 3 games combined to fill the $750 million stadium rebuild planned.

At one game at Allianz against the Jaguares, just 10,992 people turned up on a Saturday night – after 32,987 watched the Swans v Gold Coast at the SCG.

The best crowd the venue had all year was 41,546 for the A-League grand final between Sydney and Melbourne Victory back in May.

But this isn’t just a Sydney phenomenon. Overall, crowds numbers are down nationally.

Only the A-League is defying the crowd trend for sport on rectangular fields.

So just who is the government doing this for? They say fans, but in that case it would be cheaper to buy every fan a $1000 large screen TV since that’s where you’ll find most of them enjoying the sport.

But the next time the Berejiklian government says it hasn’t got the money for a project, keep the stadium announcement in mind.

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the- ... ms-2017-11


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