BS file claim#16: more participants in PNG playing RL than..

[NSWAFL]

WHAT?? Are you serious, Xman? Cos provided a stat that made hacks of the claims made by the PNGRL head honcho! All Debbie proved was how popular the game is for spectators! She didn't provide any specific stat to back up the two million claim. And yet Cos did provide a stat at just 17,000, using Debbie's own admission.

Where is this proof showing the PNG RL leader is wrong? I can only go on the proof shown in the thread and it was more conclusive in Parras favour.

How could it possibly be conclusive? It's 1/3 of the entire population and that means every adult male AND female would have to be playing the game, and that's impossible. Remember that 27,000 are playing AFL (and that's been proven). The game may have 2 million supporters, but 2 million players?? Speculation by the PNG RL and nothing more and I stand by it.

[cos789]

Where is this proof showing the PNG RL leader is wrong? I can only go on the proof shown in the thread and it was more conclusive in Parras favour.

parafeel said himself that PNG had only 10k players.
When the word "participants" is used then the accepted connotation is all players in organised in that sport..i.e. juniors
Looking at the PNG rl structure it is obvious that the PNG doesn't support that number of organised participants.
Looking at the figure of 2 million participants that this person of participnats is not the one we use here.
The population of PNG is under 7 million people.
Asuming half the population is male under 3.5 million are males.
Basically that equation is saying every single available PNG male is a rl participant.
Common sense says that a totally non sensical statement.

IF we take the same definition of participation and appy it to AF then the AFL I believe says there's 770k registered players. Are you expecting us to come with figures that show how many Australians kick the ball around in the backyard ?
Common sense say for every registered AF player there would be many times that it backyard participation.

Do we really want to take this bs to an even more absurd level ?

[cos789]

This is just another example of parafeel bogging up this forum by using deceit rather than skill.
He uses AFL, VFL instead of AF or AR and vice versa, RFL instead of rl and plays on words so he cannot be challenged.
When he is challenged he moves the goalposts.

In this case parafeel has moved the goalpost by moving the accepted definition of "participation" used here.
His quotation of participation is quite clearly and logically different to ours.

[Xman]

Correct. His numbers included all participants including schools. No figures were offered to counter his argument

[cos789]

Correct. His numbers included all participants including schools. No figures were offered to counter his argument

Except plain logic.
So is a new ruling - no need for logic , just someone to give a dumbarse quote ?

[cos789]

Spectator support at games is also at record highs – the attendance record for the Toyota
AFL premiership season of 6.28 million was set in 2005, up six per cent on 2004 figures.
In addition, total attendances for the Wizard Home Loans Cup, Toyota AFL premiership
season and Toyota AFL finals series passed seven million for the first time.4
On average, 4.02 million people watched AFL matches on television in 2005 (up 1.2 per
cent on 2004), and the 2005 AFL grand final between the Sydney Swans and the West Coast
Eagles was the most-watched television program in Australia that year, with an average
audience in the five mainland capital cities of 3.386 million people.5
Like the spectacular marks which signify the game – Australian football

These millions of Australians participated in Australian Football.

[NSWAFL]

Correct. His numbers included all participants including schools. No figures were offered to counter his argument

That's because the figures were bushwah to begin with! It's IMPOSSIBLE! I called on Debbie to provide specifics and she piked out of it! Come on! There is NO WAY every single male from 12 to 35 plus most of the female population in the same age group can be playing RL in PNG! Because that is what would be needed to make the numbers!

[Xman]

He provided a source supporting the sport being played by every school age child. That alone would be near 1 million if true. Add to that adult participants and it is feasible the number could be close to 2 million. There was little to counter this argument other than a plea to use logic.

I can only judge on the arguments provided and his was supported.

[NSWAFL]

No, she provided evidence that showed that in order for school children to be allowed to play RL, they had to go to school. That doesn't provide numbers at all, and it certainly doesn't prove that they all play. And that includes girls by the way. I can't believe you bought that bushwah, Xman.

[cos789]

He provided a source supporting the sport being played by every school age child. That alone would be near 1 million if true.

LOts of dodgy angles on that one .
But close to 1 million you say.

Add to that adult participants and it is feasible the number could be close to 2 million.

No way in the world.
You may be able to technically count every single physical girl and boy that attends school as some sort of "participation"
but you cannot use that dodgy reasoning for adults.
Participation to be counted has to be organised.
parafeel has indicated by his own statement has said there is only 10k real participants in the PNG.
At the very best these are ok registered adult players .
You're still 1 million adult particpants short.
Is there an edict that all villagers must play rl ?
Of course not .

There was little to counter this argument other than a plea to use logic.

I can only judge on the arguments provided and his was supported.

There was some indirect support. There was no other direct support for the figure of 2 million.

[Xman]

He provided a source supporting the sport being played by every school age child. That alone would be near 1 million if true.

LOts of dodgy angles on that one .
But close to 1 million you say.

Add to that adult participants and it is feasible the number could be close to 2 million.

No way in the world.
You may be able to technically count every single physical girl and boy that attends school as some sort of "participation"
but you cannot use that dodgy reasoning for adults.
Participation to be counted has to be organised.
parafeel has indicated by his own statement has said there is only 10k real participants in the PNG.
At the very best these are ok registered adult players .
You're still 1 million adult particpants short.
Is there an edict that all villagers must play rl ?
Of course not .

There was little to counter this argument other than a plea to use logic.

I can only judge on the arguments provided and his was supported.

There was some indirect support. There was no other direct support for the figure of 2 million.

He never qualified his statement as 'formal participants'. This was the reason he won. There was no evidence provided that demonstrated ARs participants in a similar way. There was no evidence provided that discounted the RL participants in PNG other than a comment it was "illogical".

[cos789]

He never qualified his statement as 'formal participants'.

That is extremely lame.
You can then introduce spectators as "participants" in that guise as I have stated.
The accepted and dictionary meaning means to partake or have a share in the game.
It's extremely lame when para was strident in his non acceptance of AF participation figures.

There was no evidence provided that demonstrated ARs participants in a similar way.

Yes , because we thought nobody would stoop so low to count backyard kick ups.

There was no evidence provided that discounted the RL participants in PNG other than a comment it was "illogical".

There was no evidence to support the one million adult participant shortfall was there.
Yes, let's forget about the so called one million schoolchildren as participants
but there was no evidence to suggest one million adults participated in rl , was there.

[Xman]

He never qualified his statement as 'formal participants'.

That is extremely lame.
You can then introduce spectators as "participants" in that guise as I have stated.
The accepted and dictionary meaning means to partake or have a share in the game.
It's extremely lame when para was strident in his non acceptance of AF participation figures.

There was no evidence provided that demonstrated ARs participants in a similar way.

Yes , because we thought nobody would stoop so low to count backyard kick ups.

There was no evidence provided that discounted the RL participants in PNG other than a comment it was "illogical".

There was no evidence to support the one million adult participant shortfall was there.
Yes, let's forget about the so called one million schoolchildren as participants
but there was no evidence to suggest one million adults participated in rl , was there.

An official representative of PNGRL claimed figures, which were quoted. Until these figures are discounted I cannot just ignore them. No evidence was presented to discount the figures. No figures were presented to show ARs had a greater number of similar participants. These are facts and I cannot simply ignore them when making a decision.

2 Million participants might sound ridiculous to us but these developing countries certainly do take up activities like sport with an insatiable passion. Look at Nauru and AR's. The participation rates and interest levels appear off the chart compared to that of Australia when populations are considered. Look at the NT and the levels of participation in AR's amongst the indiginous community.

I realise you don't like this decision but they cannot all go in favor of the AR's side.

[NSWAFL]

*throws hands in the air*

So you're believing an RL official in a sport that has a history of lying. Way to make Debbie look smart, Xman. It was a pack of lies that didn't need contrary evidence because it is IMPOSSIBLE as I've already stated. It doesn't just sound ridiculous. It IS ridiculous! Nauru is a bad example because it's a much smaller country population wise and there's not much room for other things. When a choice is made in such a place, it's very hard to change it. That doesn't apply to PNG.

If you won't change your mind, then I'll just have to file a new claim once I find cast iron evidence that Debbie and the RL official are liars. It's ridiculous that I have to prove that something is impossible beyond simple logic!

[Xman]

*throws hands in the air*

So you're believing an RL official in a sport that has a history of lying. Way to make Debbie look smart, Xman. It was a pack of lies that didn't need contrary evidence because it is IMPOSSIBLE as I've already stated. It doesn't just sound ridiculous. It IS ridiculous! Nauru is a bad example because it's a much smaller country population wise and there's not much room for other things. When a choice is made in such a place, it's very hard to change it. That doesn't apply to PNG.

If you won't change your mind, then I'll just have to file a new claim once I find cast iron evidence that Debbie and the RL official are liars. It's ridiculous that I have to prove that something is impossible beyond simple logic!

Nauru is a good example because like PNG it is also a developing country and they often develop a passion for activities like sport in a massive way. I'm not sure how we can insist others believe every comment from the AFL if we then refuse to believe comments from RL officials. There was no proof to the contrary just a plea to consider it as impossible. This IMO this not enough because often developing countries do not follow the same behavioral trends as developed countries, because as you rightly said, they have less to do.