Dwindling Crowds for the TOP of the Ladder Melbourne Storm

[Raiderdave]

Your view is completely out of touch with reality, Raider. The statistics speak for themselves. AFL is killing NRL on most levels, and you keep arguing for the losers as though they are winning when they aren't.

Get back to me when;
1. The average attendance of the Sydney NRL clubs combined is higher than that of the Swans.
2. The number of senior grass roots AFL clubs in NSW is outstripped by the number of senior grass roots RL clubs in Victoria, South Australia and Western Australia combined.
3. The TV ratings for the NRL in Adelaide and Perth actually gets to a decent level.

And that's off the top of my head.

Do me and every other AFL supporter in this great country of ours, and stop insulting our intelligence with your grandios crystal balling born more out of hope than reality huh?
3.

your sport tried to take over its non traditional areas
it has failed

that is all

[TLPG]

It has not failed.

[Raiderdave]

You bet it hasn't failed!

oh its failed
a weak product outside of Victoria ... the NRL has shown it up for what it is

[TLPG]

No it's not. You are ignoring the real figures across the board.

[Raiderdave]

No it's not. You are ignoring the real figures across the board.

no its you who's ignoring the " real " figures across the board

nothing to brag about membership numbers & crowds compared to the AFL average .. & barely ahead of the NRL's despite having only 3 clubs to the NRL's 14 ( in NSW & QLD )

unimpressive participation rates in NSW & QLD outside of the riverina
& TV ratings that are an embarrasment to the code

& all of these are going down even further

these are the real figures & any half sane person would say its troubling

meanwhile its main rival ( Rugby League ) has all of the above going the other way
up ... Its unshakeable in its heartland & theres no denying this.

with nothing else to show the masses in NSW & QLD except the same old dross its put on for the last 30 years
its over
wave the white flag .. throw in the towel
its done
we've won

[TLPG]

nothing to brag about membership numbers & crowds compared to the AFL average .. & barely ahead of the NRL's despite having only 3 clubs to the NRL's 14 ( in NSW & QLD )

We're ahead. Averages take the 3 v 14 argument out of the equation. That's the point of the mathematical formula.

unimpressive participation rates in NSW & QLD outside of the riverina
& TV ratings that are an embarrasment to the code

Participation rates for AFL in NSW and QLD are WAY ahead of RL participation rates in VIC, SA and WA. TV ratings are an embarassment for RL outside of NSW and QLD. A much bigger one.

with nothing else to show the masses in NSW & QLD except the same old dross its put on for the last 30 years
its over
wave the white flag .. throw in the towel
its done
we've won

You're losing. We have not lost. The Swans, the Lions and the Suns are alive and kicking. And that frustrates you, doesn't it? That's the proof that the AFL has not lost.

We have plenty to show for it since 1982. I'll be back with the proof at grass roots level across the state, and I'll leave the Riverina out in my figures.

[Raiderdave]

nothing to brag about membership numbers & crowds compared to the AFL average .. & barely ahead of the NRL's despite having only 3 clubs to the NRL's 14 ( in NSW & QLD )

We're ahead. Averages take the 3 v 14 argument out of the equation. That's the point of the mathematical formula.

unimpressive participation rates in NSW & QLD outside of the riverina
& TV ratings that are an embarrasment to the code

Participation rates for AFL in NSW and QLD are WAY ahead of RL participation rates in VIC, SA and WA. TV ratings are an embarassment for RL outside of NSW and QLD. A much bigger one.

with nothing else to show the masses in NSW & QLD except the same old dross its put on for the last 30 years
its over
wave the white flag .. throw in the towel
its done
we've won

You're losing. We have not lost. The Swans, the Lions and the Suns are alive and kicking. And that frustrates you, doesn't it? That's the proof that the AFL has not lost.

We have plenty to show for it since 1982. I'll be back with the proof at grass roots level across the state, and I'll leave the Riverina out in my figures.

We're ahead. Averages take the 3 v 14 argument out of the equation. That's the point of the mathematical formula.

aggregate is more important ..
our 230K fans up against the AFL's 67K ... 3.5 times as many attendees
condense our 14 teams down to say 7 ... & our average is double what it is now ... take it down to 3 or 4 to match the number of AFL teams & our average goes to .. well .. geez a lot

or go the other way ... increase the number of AFL teams to 14
in NSW & QLD ....& the AFL average drops to what ... 5K
proof of this will be when GWS comes in next year & that present NSW/QLD AFL 22.6K average ( which will be less by this seasons end ) will be less again next year

Participation rates for AFL in NSW and QLD are WAY ahead of RL participation rates in VIC, SA and WA. TV ratings are an embarassment for RL outside of NSW and QLD. A much bigger one.

the fight for NSW & QLD is being fought in NSW & QLD ... not in the other states .. up here .. you're getting whopped in participation rates
& I'd prefer 340K watching my game down there ... to 50K watching yours up here .. any day

all of the above has the blue ribbon being pinned to the NRL
1st place
well done

[TLPG]

So being tribalistic is a good thing in other words?

It's not going to get the NRL the same sort of broadcast rights deal as the AFL got!

This fight is not limited to NSW and Queensland. It's nationwide. That's what the AFL is, and what the NRL is not. I prefer 50K watching AFL up there to zero. Besides, you are again concentrating on the TV ratings - when what really matters are attendances. If you condense the number of NRL teams in Sydney, the aggregate will drop. That's what happened to the AFL when South Melbourne went to Sydney and when Fitzroy merged with Brisbane. I'll bet it happened to the NRL when North Sydney disappeared, and indeed for the period Souths were off the map. That's why averages are better.

NRL is not willing to take risks. The AFL are - expand or die. That's why the VFL expanded to begin with. So did the NSWRL, but the latter stopped with Queensland. I wouldn't call the Reds or the Rams an effort because they never really tried, and no one wanted to see them at home anyway.

Blue ribbon for effort goes to the AFL, and we aren't losing. We are winning where it counts - and it's about time you admitted that your claims are nothing more than hopes and dreams based on a blinkered view of the AFL and it's influence. You want to do that for yourself - fine. I can't exactly stop you. But expect to be challenged every time you try to express those dreams.

[pussycat]

So being tribalistic is a good thing in other words?

It's not going to get the NRL the same sort of broadcast rights deal as the AFL got!

.

The NRL failure to get a better TV deal has nothing to do with geographics, but rather the people that have taken over RL.

As I've previously said, its not about having more dots on a map. Advertiser would rather have an audience of 10 not 9 , regardless of location.

[TLPG]

Location matters, Pussycat. That's why the advertisers who want a wide scope aren't interested in the regionals. They want the capital cities. I call that plenty to do with geographics and with NRL limiting itself like it is it will hurt them.

[pussycat]

NRL is not willing to take risks. The AFL are - expand or die. That's why the VFL expanded to begin with. So did the NSWRL, but the latter stopped with Queensland. I wouldn't call the Reds or the Rams an effort because they never really tried, and no one wanted to see them at home anyway.

Blue ribbon for effort goes to the AFL, and we aren't losing. We are winning where it counts - and it's about time you admitted that your claims are nothing more than hopes and dreams based on a blinkered view of the AFL and it's influence. You want to do that for yourself - fine. I can't exactly stop you. But expect to be challenged every time you try to express those dreams.

The AFL (VFL) had the Crawford Commission make out a report on the state of there game. And were told that they needed to expand or they would die? So how, exactly are they taking a risk? it seems to me they had no other alternative. In the case of the ARL, at that time, They were going along great guns - just signed a record TV deal and had teams and consortium linning up . So well In fact we attracted attention from News Limited and the rest is history. But things are about to change!

[TLPG]

Great guns? News Limited went to Super League and nearly destroyed the game! I was living in Canberra when that all went down, and the local ACTAFL were actually getting bigger crowds than they'd seen since the early 80's!

Expanding into new areas is always risky - even when it's needed, Pussycat. But I will say this - I've always said that the AFL should be been formed as a new league and not an expanded VFL. That way to interests of both the SANFL and the WAFL (at least - the TFL would have been involved as well) would have been looked after from the get go. The WAFL crumbled straight away, but the SANFL held out until Port Adelaide stuffed them up and they were forced to create the Crows to stop them. The SANFL never forgave Port for that.

[pussycat]

Location matters, Pussycat. That's why the advertisers who want a wide scope aren't interested in the regionals. They want the capital cities. I call that plenty to do with geographics and with NRL limiting itself like it is it will hurt them.

I recall providing you with some evidence that regioal figures do actually matter . How about you come up with a few facts of your own instead of these opinions and myths that you and Demetriou use to support your cause.

I eagely await hearring a logical argument, on why Toyota would sooner sell, a total, of 9 cars in three states rather than 10 in two?

[TLPG]

Regional figures don't matter, because if they did the NRL would have got a bigger TV deal than the AFL got last time they went up. Advertisers go with the majority of the population - and that's Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth.

On the Toyota analogy - there is the potential sales as well as actual sales to consider. Logically, 3 states would have more potential sales than 2. Sure, you could throw in population to chuck that aside - but how about travel? WA and SA are more reliant on cars than any other state due to the lower level of public transport by rail. Tasmania as well.

No myths.

[pussycat]

Great guns? News Limited went to Super League and nearly destroyed the game! I was living in Canberra when that all went down, and the local ACTAFL were actually getting bigger crowds than they'd seen since the early 80's!

Expanding into new areas is always risky - even when it's needed, Pussycat. But I will say this - I've always said that the AFL should be been formed as a new league and not an expanded VFL. That way to interests of both the SANFL and the WAFL (at least - the TFL would have been involved as well) would have been looked after from the get go. The WAFL crumbled straight away, but the SANFL held out until Port Adelaide stuffed them up and they were forced to create the Crows to stop them. The SANFL never forgave Port for that.

In the year of Canberra's admittance, 1982, there average home crowd was 10 800.

In the Year prior to the Super League war Canberra home crowd average was over 17 000.