Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Beaussie »

Deputy Premier seems at odds with the Premier. 🤔
'We still have to make a final decision': Barilaro on stadiums
By Alexandra Smith8 March 2018 — 6:01pm

The Deputy Premier, John Barilaro, has given a fresh indication that the government could wind back its policy to demolish and rebuild Sydney sporting stadiums, after he insisted “a final decision” still had to be made.

Mr Barilaro’s comments are at odds with the Premier Gladys Berejiklian, who was last week asked to guarantee she would pursue the controversial policy through to next year’s election.
“That is our intention, of course,” Ms Berejiklian said.

In response to opposition questions in Parliament, Mr Barilaro indicated on Thursday that the $2.5 billion policy was not a done deal.

“Will there be more conversations in government in relation to stadiums, of course,” Mr Barilaro told Parliament on Thursday.

A senior government source said a revised stadiums proposal needed to go back to cabinet’s expenditure review committee because of “cost blowouts”.

A business case for the knockdown and rebuild of Allianz is being prepared and would go to cabinet first, followed by a “strategic business case” for ANZ, it is understood.

In November, the government announced it would spend more than $2 billion to replace Allianz Stadium at Moore Park and ANZ Stadium at Sydney Olympic Park. It was a significant increase on former premier Mike Baird's $1.6 billion stadium spending package.

The Opposition leader, Luke Foley, seized on Mr Barilaro’s comments, repeating his claim that “not one member of cabinet apart from [sports minister] Stuart Ayres will speak publicly in support of her stadiums splurge”.

“When is the Premier going to come clean and tell the public that she will capitulate on her stadiums policy, just as she has capitulated on so many other policies,” Mr Foley said.

“The Deputy Premier feels free to claim that a final stadiums policy decision has not yet been taken, despite it being announced three and a half months ago. “

Ms Berejiklian’s commitment to the policy came just days after the former fair trading minister Matthew Mason-Cox said it was difficult to justify spending so much on sporting stadiums when the state’s child-protection system was a “disgrace”.

Mr Mason-Cox was the first government MP to publicly declare that there was unrest within the Coalition about the wisdom of the stadium decision.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/we- ... 4z3i3.html
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by NRL&NFLweLaughATafl »

I think the main priority will always be to turn the Olympic stadium into a rectangular stadium. If they don't demolish it, it will still be reconfigured to a rectangle ground.

As all the main football codes in Sydney are rectangular games and they are the codes which will use it.

AFL has the SCG and a stadium already for the Giants. Which is all they will ever need in Sydney.
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Beaussie »

No, not Fitzy saying ditching the stadium rebuilds is a live option... here we have the Deputy Premier of NSW.
'Never say never': Door open on ditching stadiums second day running
By James Robertson
9 March 2018 — 2:12pm

NSW Deputy Premier John Barilaro has for a second straight day fanned speculation the government is open to dumping its controversial $2.5-billion stadium rebuilding policy by saying the government would have to respond if there was “red hot” community anger over the plan.

The comments are a distinct change in rhetoric from statements made last week by Premier Gladys Berejiklian who said the government intended to take its $2.5-billion plan to demolish and rebuild both ANZ Stadium at Olympic Park and Allianz Stadium at Moore Park to next year’s election.
“I've learnt in politics, never say never,” Mr Barilaro, the leader of the NSW parliamentary Nationals, said on ABC radio on Friday.

Since assuming the deputy premier's role in 2016, Mr Barilaro has been outspokenly critical of some major government reforms such as council amalgamations.

And he acknowledged the government had changed its policy on a number of controversial issues in response to community feedback, such as the wholesale cancellation of rural and some metropolitan council mergers.

"Sometimes as governments and politicians you've got to learn to listen, and if there is red hot anger out there, we've got to actually take that on board,” he said.

Friday's comments come a day after Mr Barilaro told NSW Parliament the policy was still not yet a “final decision” and would be reviewed by the government’s powerful expenditure review committee which analyses the costs and benefits of budget items.But Mr Barilaro said he believed most voters would be persuaded of the need to rebuild the stadiums and until a business case on the projects was delivered in coming weeks there was no basis on which they should be dumped.

“At this stage, if those business cases come in and they tick those boxes, the government will have to make an announcement on its next stage,” he said.

The state government has signed a memorandum of understanding with the NRL that the stadiums will be redeveloped and the league has warned reneging on the deal could lead to the relocation of the code's grand final to Queensland.

However senior sources in both parties say the stadium spend has created concerns the government may be perceived by some voters as preoccupied with metropolitan projects.

A majority of the government’s most marginal seats, including Mr Barilaro’s own seat of Monaro, are in regional NSW and held by the Nationals.

The Nationals are also hoping to win back the seat of Orange, lost in a landslide in 2016, in the government's bid for a third term in 2019.

Government sources have also questioned whether the projects will meet the government’s own test for building critical infrastructure: that it deliver at least one dollar in economic benefit for every dollar spent.

But the Premier has refused to rule out dumping the policy if it falls short, saying governments commit to projects for reasons other than financial benefits.

Before being promoted to cabinet Mr Barilaro was an outspoken critic of the government’s 2015 centrepiece election policy: the privatisation of the state’s electricity networks.

Some Liberal backbenchers have openly expressed doubts about the stadium plans including former fair trading minister Matthew Mason-Cox, who said it was difficult to justify spending so much on sporting institutions when the state’s child-protection system was under-resourced.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/nev ... 4z3mq.html
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Beaussie »

Sounding more and more likely that Allianz Stadium will be knocked down and rebuilt, whist plans for ANZ Stadium will be downsized, delayed or dumped all together.

Gladys Berejiklian crunching the numbers for stadiums rebuild funding
The Australian
12:00AM March 13, 2018
Andrew Clennell

The benefit-cost ratio for a knockdown and rebuild of Allianz Stadium is expected to have been dragged up from 0.6 to about one when Premier Gladys Berejiklian announces the project this week, allowing money for the project to be taken from the sale of the Land and Property Information Service.

When cabinet first approved the government’s policy of building two stadiums at a cost of more than $2 billion last November, ministers were told the BCR for Allianz was 0.6; potentially up to 0.8 if the value of the asset when it was not being used was counted.

For a project to have more value than its cost it must have a BCR of more than one and, under the government’s own rules, the proceeds of asset sales cannot be used for projects unless they have a BCR of one or more.

It is understood the strategic business case for the knockdown and rebuild of ANZ Stadium at Sydney Olympic Park is set to downsize its BCR from close to one to as low as 0.6, setting the way for the government to backtrack on that project.

But there is internal conjecture that part of the reason for the Sydney Football Stadium project — heavily backed by Sports Minister Stuart Ayres — increasing in value and the other decreasing is the judgment that a rebuilt Allianz Stadium will take major events away from ANZ Stadium.

Ms Berejiklian previously promised that the $2.6 billion sale of the Land and Property Information Service would pay for her plans announced in November to rebuild Allianz Stadium for $705 million and ANZ Stadium for $1.25bn.

The Premier is expected to announce on Thursday that she will proceed with the knockdown and rebuild of Allianz Stadium at a cost of more than $700m.

But a decision on a rebuild of ANZ is expected to be delayed for a month, amid widespread speculation the ANZ project is to be downsized, delayed or dumped.

The Australian has revealed that initial estimates by INSW of the cost of knocking down and rebuilding Allianz Stadium involved a cost blowout of up to $200m but that Infrastructure NSW chief executive Jim Betts had been told to try to get the project to cost as close to $705m as possible.

This could involve dumping of flash technology and other innovations planned for the stadium.

The government has also spent more than $300m on a new Parramatta stadium and $200m on buying back ANZ from the private sector.

Infrastructure Minister Andrew Constance yesterday defended spending on both stadiums. “We’re behind the eight ball compared to other states ... it’s not just the sports; it’s the rock concerts and other events that draw incredible crowds,” Mr Constance said.

“They’re very different sites . . the Olympic venue, we’re working to build a metro train there, a light rail there.

“We want to build a Wembley style stadium in the heart of Sydney at Sydney Olympic Park.

“In terms of Moore Park, it’s a smaller facility obviously catering for a different style of events.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 28d956c972
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Beaussie »

Yep, just as I predicted... political poison.

Voter revolt on stadiums poses threat to Premier
By Alexandra Smith16 March 2018 — 8:38pm

More than half of NSW voters oppose Gladys Berejiklian’s plan to spend $2.5 billion rebuilding two new Sydney sporting stadiums, according to exclusive polling which comes as government MPs grow increasingly nervous about the policy.

A ReachTEL poll commissioned by The Sydney Morning Herald shows that 58.9 per cent of voters polled oppose or strongly oppose the government’s decision to demolish and rebuild Allianz Stadium at Moore Park and ANZ at Homebush.

Only 25 per cent support or strongly support the plan and 15.8 per cent of voters are undecided.

The poll results are likely to cause further unrest within the Coalition ranks, as MPs worry that the stadiums plan will become politically damaging in the final 12 months before the election.

Next Friday - March 23 - marks one year until the state election.

One senior party source said: “It’s fair to say there is concern from MPs about the way the policy was explained to the public. We have to do better at selling it.”

The Premier and her sports minister, Stuart Ayres, have stood firm in their decision to push ahead with the plan, but a final cabinet decision is still weeks away as the government waits for business cases for both stadiums to be finalised

It was expected that cabinet would approve the rebuild of Allianz as early as this week but it is now more likely that both stadiums will be considered at the same time, buying the government more time to convince voters - and MPs - of its merits.

More than half of those polled (53.8 per cent) also felt the government was spending too much on major sporting infrastructure while 37.2 per cent felt they were spending about the right amount.
The poll of 1521 NSW voters taken on Thursday night shows the Liberal/National coalition leading Labor by 52 per cent to 48 per cent on a two-party preferred basis. It hasn’t shifted since the previous ReachTEL poll in October.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/vot ... 4z4rq.html
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by pussycat »

Beau, your hypocrisy is making yourself a laughing stock . If it was stadiums for the AFL you would be all for it, and that's really sad.
And your Fitzzy fascination is not normal. Do you have special feelings for this man?
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by NlolRL »

Where has the public outrage been about AFL stadium spending?
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by NRL&NFLweLaughATafl »

Beaussie wrote: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:00 am
Sounding more and more likely that Allianz Stadium will be knocked down and rebuilt, whist plans for ANZ Stadium will be downsized, delayed or dumped all together.

Gladys Berejiklian crunching the numbers for stadiums rebuild funding
The Australian
12:00AM March 13, 2018
Andrew Clennell

The benefit-cost ratio for a knockdown and rebuild of Allianz Stadium is expected to have been dragged up from 0.6 to about one when Premier Gladys Berejiklian announces the project this week, allowing money for the project to be taken from the sale of the Land and Property Information Service.

When cabinet first approved the government’s policy of building two stadiums at a cost of more than $2 billion last November, ministers were told the BCR for Allianz was 0.6; potentially up to 0.8 if the value of the asset when it was not being used was counted.

For a project to have more value than its cost it must have a BCR of more than one and, under the government’s own rules, the proceeds of asset sales cannot be used for projects unless they have a BCR of one or more.

It is understood the strategic business case for the knockdown and rebuild of ANZ Stadium at Sydney Olympic Park is set to downsize its BCR from close to one to as low as 0.6, setting the way for the government to backtrack on that project.

But there is internal conjecture that part of the reason for the Sydney Football Stadium project — heavily backed by Sports Minister Stuart Ayres — increasing in value and the other decreasing is the judgment that a rebuilt Allianz Stadium will take major events away from ANZ Stadium.

Ms Berejiklian previously promised that the $2.6 billion sale of the Land and Property Information Service would pay for her plans announced in November to rebuild Allianz Stadium for $705 million and ANZ Stadium for $1.25bn.

The Premier is expected to announce on Thursday that she will proceed with the knockdown and rebuild of Allianz Stadium at a cost of more than $700m.

But a decision on a rebuild of ANZ is expected to be delayed for a month, amid widespread speculation the ANZ project is to be downsized, delayed or dumped.

The Australian has revealed that initial estimates by INSW of the cost of knocking down and rebuilding Allianz Stadium involved a cost blowout of up to $200m but that Infrastructure NSW chief executive Jim Betts had been told to try to get the project to cost as close to $705m as possible.

This could involve dumping of flash technology and other innovations planned for the stadium.

The government has also spent more than $300m on a new Parramatta stadium and $200m on buying back ANZ from the private sector.

Infrastructure Minister Andrew Constance yesterday defended spending on both stadiums. “We’re behind the eight ball compared to other states ... it’s not just the sports; it’s the rock concerts and other events that draw incredible crowds,” Mr Constance said.

“They’re very different sites . . the Olympic venue, we’re working to build a metro train there, a light rail there.

“We want to build a Wembley style stadium in the heart of Sydney at Sydney Olympic Park.

“In terms of Moore Park, it’s a smaller facility obviously catering for a different style of events.”

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation ... 28d956c972
No ANZ will be reconfigured to rectangular ground if it is not knocked down. There is no way it will stay oval when 3 rectangular codes use it the most.

So AFL will still be locked out of being able to use a ground they never use anyway. :cool:
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Beaussie »

^^^^ You really believe that?

This issue is killing the Government’s chances at the next election and it sounds like only the Premier and Sports Minister within Government are left backing the spending spree.
Sydney stadium train wreck: where to from here?
By Peter FitzSimons
19 March 2018 — 8:08pm

The stadium thing? For me, it was very, very odd. In late November, one of my children, who has no interest in sport, spoke to me with some passion about the sheer profligate ludicrousness of the NSW government’s announced intention of knocking down the Olympic and Sydney Football stadiums and rebuilding them for a price tag of some $2 billion. I broadly agreed, but two things surprised me.

First, that my offspring was across so much of the detail of it, when it hadn’t been particularly widely reported, and second the fervour with which the argument was put.

A good idea for a column, I thought? I wrote it, releasing a petition at much the same time. Next thing, I turned around and there were 100,000 people – no, 150,000 people . . . no, 200,000 people – who had signed up, brandishing burning torches and pitch-forks, yelling, “We march on the government, tonight!”

I had no idea, and clearly the government had no idea, that there would be this level of community anger about the announcement that a people long fed on bread and circuses were about to get two brand new circus tents!

It has gone on since, with people of all ages, all socio-economic groups, all backgrounds, and in all parts of NSW, roaring their disapproval. (Last Wednesday, I thought I was about to be victim of a violent road-rage episode, after foolishly not putting my blinker on, only for the tattooed truck-driver to wind his window down and yell, “Mate, on the stadiums, go harder! On ya!”)

Why such widespread vehemence?

I am not sure, but have a strong feeling the stadiums issue is more a lightning rod for wider angst, a feeling the government is way too cosy with the Big End of Town, that it has become “a government to developers, by developers, for developers”.

The political ramifications are huge, with the Herald noting last Saturday on its front page that the whole thing has the potential to see the Berejiklian government thrown out on its ear in the elections due a year from now.

I am reliably informed that within the NSW cabinet, the only ministers who continue to support the move, are the Premier and the Sports Minister. All the others are robustly against. (One of my petition's signatories, who called the Deputy Premier’s office the other day to protest, says she was firmly told, “This is the idea of the Sports Minister. Call him.”)

So, where to from here for the NSW government? What is the way out of this unforeseen train wreck of a policy?

The most sensible thing for the government to do is to stop the nonsense, to gravely announce that, “We have listened to the people, and have changed our policy. Instead of putting that money into re-doing Sydney stadiums that already exist, we are doing the equivalent of 100x $10 million sporting venues around the state, and putting the rest into renovating the existing stadiums, as well as more money into hospitals and schools.” The people would roar with approval, the government would get kudos for being responsive and it would, in all likelihood, romp home at the next election.

In the NSW regions, instead of the boiling resentment of the people at seeing their tax dollars poured once more into Sydney, there would be euphoria – basketball courts for Ballina! Tennis courts for Tenterfield! Netball courts for Nowra!

If, however, the government resists the logic, persists with the plan, and insists it is going to continue on its path come what may, there is but one navigable path.

If – as the Opposition hopes – it persists with the two stadium knock-down and rebuild, you can put the glasses down. They will lose the next election by a mile. The people will be waiting for them with a cricket bat, and won’t miss.

But, redo one stadium?

It could, possibly, get away with it, if it sells it right.

Stop talking about the reason we are spending this amount of money is because we want to redo the female and disabled toilets.

Stop insisting that the 30-year-old SFS is a rust-bucket beyond hope of redemption. (It isn’t, and in any case only invites the question of why we would trust the same mob to do another stadium, if it, too, is to fall down in 30 years?)

Stop framing the stadiums in pure economic terms making ludicrous claims, as the Premier has, the whole thing can pay for itself in two years. (Really? You have that kind of return, but still need to come to the taxpayer for money? Why aren’t you being knocked over in a rush, by private equity to fund it?)

Stop carrying on about how inadequate the likes of the Olympic Stadium is for things like concerts. (Strange then, that Ed Sheeran just broke all attendance records for his concerts last week, with few complaints about acoustics?)

Instead, do this.

Sell the idea that as the foremost city in the country, Sydney should have one world-class stadium to go with our best-in-world harbour, Harbour Bridge and Opera House. Their only hope is to sell the idea on pride, not demonstrable nonsense.

Return to the Mike Baird vision, which would see a unified stadium strategy, with one body, not two, guiding a cohesive stadium strategy for the whole city. Enough with the Venues NSW board and the SCG Trust. Be a demonstrably strong government, stand up to the Big End of town and merge them. Yes, there will be no end of squealing , squawking and feathers flying – and that is just Alan – but, I’ll tell you what, the people will love it!
So, which stadium?

On this one, I have had no fewer than eight involved stakeholders bending my ear, with the Sydney Football Stadium folk pouring derision on the claims of the Olympic Stadium and Versa Vicky.

For what it’s worth, my broad view is that what makes the most sense from the point of view of serving Sydney’s sporting needs is to re-do the SFS. What will give them the most political capital, though, is to do it in the western suburbs, and redo the Olympic Stadium.

But, I repeat: the best option of the lot, is to make do with what we have – they’re fine – and put the rest to what is truly needed, local sporting infrastructure, hospitals and schools.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/sydney- ... 4z51n.html
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by pussycat »

Aah beau , good onya .You've gotta admire someone for Sticking up for there principals EER AAh there not your principal though are they, There not even fitzys. He got an excuse though he's trying to sell newspapers. What's yours?
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by Terry »

Haha!! It seems beatup's ugly bed mate is now starting to hedge his bets lolololololololololololol.
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by AFLcrap1 »

Lol Fitzy speaks & Bea is mashing the keys in a frenzy to post what his lord & master ...bandana head has ranted about .
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by NlolRL »

AFLcrap1 wrote: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:05 pm
Lol Fitzy speaks & Bea is mashing the keys in a frenzy to post what his lord & master ...bandana head has ranted about .
oh I thought everything the Sydney media said was true............ :drunk:
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by AFLcrap1 »

NlolRL wrote: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:43 pm
AFLcrap1 wrote: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:05 pm
Lol Fitzy speaks & Bea is mashing the keys in a frenzy to post what his lord & master ...bandana head has ranted about .
oh I thought everything the Sydney media said was true............ :drunk:
Nope .
I've never said that .

So try again l
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Re: Exactly why are we spending $2 billion on new stadiums in Sydney?

Post by NRL&NFLweLaughATafl »

Funny how Beau keeps ignoring the fact that the ground will still be reconfigured to a rectangular ground even if it does not get knocked down.

Either way. AFL loses the venue they never use lol..
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